Boat Search 101

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Ever notice how many people keep buying different boats? IMO that happens if you don't really understand what you need in order to what you want.
Buying a live aboard ocean cruiser doesn't make sense if your next ten years will be weekending on a lake.
Makers sell boats by length but you live in the interior volume. Bow pulpits and swim platforms added into the length help the marketers and perhaps add to bragging rights at the club but do not improve interior space.
I emphasize interior space because if you will be aboard for a long time the weather may not always be comfortable outside.
 
IMO you need to look at 50 boats before buying. Spend time on each imagining how you would use the spaces.

Can you see the bow from the steering location? Is foredeck access safe? Does the bow flare enough to break waves or will you have to sound the dive claxon when waves approach?
 
Don't start shopping by brand or boat type unless you are very familiar with the size boat you are looking for. Look at a lot of boats and see what features you like and what you don't. Yes, even sport fish might provide some insight.
Use what you see to make a list of what feature are really important to you, eventually narrowing the list to no more than 10 must have features..

Once you have your list the brand and what the maker calls the boat becomes less important. Only a boat that fits your list will be acceptable. It even allows you to creat price competition between brands because if it meets your list it is comparable.
 
But in your exemple it is difficult (impossible !?) to go futrther than the second recomendations : "Builder: Must be trustworthy, honest, ethical. Meet schedules.":angel::lol:

No it isn't. There are reputable, trustworthy builders. There are the opposite too, however.
 
A mistake often made is buying a boat not best suited for how you will actually use it. A passagmaker is probably not the best for extended ICW cruising
 
Agree with Bayview 100%. Personally I can't imagine going out and buying a boat for extended cruising and live aboard without having spent a fair amount of time on the water in different sizes and types. If one hasn't done this through ownership or having lots of friends to cruise with, then charter. I've written extensively on this on other threads.

Though for our personal purposes, we bought a big whale of a boat to be our house and cruising platform, I still think Skipper Bob's maxim is spot on: " Don't buy the biggest boat you can afford, buy the smallest boat you can be comfortable in" . We did look at 67 footers. Our boat served its purpose wonderfully, for us for the 6 years we lived on her and cruised her, as time went by we liked it better and better.

The point on volume is an important one. Big differences in the same length. Below is a picture of our boat, transoms even, next to a 55' Fleming. I've been on Flemings and think they would be wonderful to be underway in. For us the perfect boat would be a "transformer", a Fleming underway, our boat at anchor or otherwise at rest. For us the living accommodations and engine room of the Fleming were unacceptable.

So obviously I think it is very important to know what your personal check list is of ergonomic, comfort and sea handling issues.

PA210078.JPG
 
Indeed, virtually everyone will spend more time at anchor or docked than underway and if it is comfortable more time inside than out.
 
Last edited:
Indeed, virtually everyone will spend more time at anchor or docked than underway.

Selecting a boat is half knowing the boats, but half is just knowing yourself.

Part of the selection can be reduced to easily defined items too and a checklist but then there is the subjective part. There's that boat you get on that makes sense, that others love, that seems to fit a lot of your needs, but you just don't like and can't see yourself owning.
 
It is also critical that both partners love the boat. "Happy wife/happy life" as Jeff Allen says. On occasion the Better Half isn't heard -- I mean really really heard.

I met a couple who lost their trawler in Hurricane Ivan. He found another that was spectacular -- just what he wanted, so he bought it. She hated the boat. Loathed would not be too strong. You see, she said "no" and "not that boat" but he didn't hear her.

The captain thought she would come to love it as he did. After all, she loved the first trawler. But she didn't, and she never would.

The lady, South American, lived to cook for her man and her galley was horrid. Absolutely the worst. To open the oven she had to step out into the passageway. There was no counter space (couldn't roll out a pie crust!)

Each meal was served on the aft deck. That's up three steps from the galley, out the side door then up two more to the aft deck.

When she looked out she saw the inside of the side deck -- it was white.

Captain Mike didn't hear his wife. And within a year she was in a condo and the boat was for sale.

Would they have been long term cruisers? I cannot say for certain, but that galley was never going to please her. And there really was no way to fix it --

I was sad for them both.

Another friend had an Atlantic44 -- similar set-up and Tessie loved her boat. She and Ted entertained on the aft deck regularly (and she's a great cook!) ...

Though the boats are similar one was loved and the other not. Each of us is different. That's why so many boat builders exist: to fill niches.

Still, if a person has zero boating experience I advocate buying a "Starter Boat" versus the Last Boat that is craved. The learning process is better served by a Ford Escort rather than a Mercedes Benz. The mistakes made on a $10k boat are better "swallowed" than on a $100k (or more) yacht.

And time spent on a smaller inexpensive boat will allow refinement of what is important. Follow the $10k starter boat with charters of more appropriate boats. Then zero in on what's critical for your happiness quotient.

The learning gained by that 10k boat will well serve you in the larger boat. You'll learn first hand about bilge pumps, wiring, plumbing, navigation, electronics and more. All from a platform that you can sell tomorrow without taking a financial licking.

It's also best in my opinion to have a Way Out -- and it is easier to like something if you know you have a choice. A Starter Boat offers that Way Out; she also offers a big step forward in the process of becoming an Old Salt.

Plus of course Survey, survey, survey.
And imagine yourself either at anchor or docked. Most time-wise of your boating will be done in a stationary position. Make sure you're comfy when stopped.

Like others have said, buy the boat today for the use you'll make of her this year and next. There's no need to buy a Blue-Water, displacement hull, long-range cruiser first. You need to know what pleases you most.

As for me, I like coastal hopping, and short days. Long days at anchor, and relaxing. It's not about distance traveled nor about bragging rights for the fastest boat. She's not fancy -- Seaweed is a boat. And for me, that's perfect.

Others prefer the Yacht ownership. The Wow Factor, and such. Although at times I yearn for a bit more Bristol (fancy) finish, for me, Seaweed is home. She's a bit rough around the edges at 31 years old and has served me well as home for the past six years. With a few more improvements she'll be almost perfect.

Oh, and one more thing: know that however your boat is when you find her, you can change her/make her better. Seaweed came without solar panels, no wind generator, no windlass, inadequate anchor, lacked access to storage places, etc. I've been working on all those things.

My biggest advice though if you're shopping for a boat home is to buy a boat that has been home to someone for YEARS. No, everything won't be the way you'd prefer, but the previous owner will have gained access to storage spaces, made changes that will benefit you, and more.

I know I'm always fascinated by the "little things" that owners do to make their homes better/more comfortable. Factory boats might be fancy (and are!) but it's the little touches I like best. Stupid stuff, like on Anja the owner has a retractable clothes line in the head for hanging damp clothes.

Or the spot under the steps with storage for tools so they are right by the engine. Or the spice rack in the galley that keeps everything tidy even in a blow.... little stuff, but happiness quotient enhancers.

I've rambled. I'll hush now.
 
I cannot even imagine what difficulty is in store for new boaters (with no previous experience) who have decided they now want to join the boating world.

We were lucky when we jumped back into boating (we were out for well over a decade)... in that I had from birth decades experience in New England coastal cruising and fishing, and, I had experience on umpteen different model/brand boats... as well as building-new in manufacturer and restoring them in 1st class boat yards. Linda had years on house boats and ski boats. Even though, when we came back in we needed to learn what we'd missed and what had become available. It was a pretty steep learning curve for a couple years as we visited and went out on many, many boats for-sale. We made a good list of must haves, sure would be nice, and heck no's - not on a bet! After years of looking we fell upon our Tolly and it was love at first sight! She met just about our every “boat wish” for this time of life. We'd only been aboard her for a couple minutes, with owner not looking at us, I saw Linda's smile and I winked at her... she winked twice right back. I had DP on Tolly the next day, contingencies of course. Within a week and a half I pulled her out of the slip and docked her where we already held a slip in reserve. The rest is history... and... the fun story continues!

I really think that there should be a course available that can knowledgably introduce newbies to “boating world”. There would need to be many levels that care for different people’s plans of using a boat. Boats are a complex animal and boat users are even way more complex!

Happy Boat Search Daze - Art :speed boat:

PS: There are sone really, really good posts on this thread!!
 
George(Caltexflanc), what make is "Sixpence", in the pic with your boat?
 
Surprising. I`d expect to recognize one, must be the angle & adjacent features.

They look far more imposing from the side. But a 55 Fleming is still a significantly smaller boat than his 56 Hatteras. Now, that's partly the reason Fleming has introduced a 58 now.

Comparing the 58 to the 55, the 58 is 1'6" wider, the waterline length is 5'10" longer, the weight is 33% greater. In some ways the ideal boat has the space of a larger boat, handles like a smaller one, has the ride of a larger, the economy of a smaller, has the comfort of a larger, the cost of a smaller one.
 
In some ways the ideal boat has the space of a larger boat, handles like a smaller one, has the ride of a larger, the economy of a smaller, has the comfort of a larger, the cost of a smaller one.

I agree and... all lunches would be free and all children smarter than average.
 
The Flemming is probably narrower than the Hatt and it is certainly lower. Keeping weight lower reduces roll as does narrower hull. It may be more easily driven and probably less displacement yielding better fuel economy at the same speed. But there is no comparison to the Hatt when it comes to living space and creature comforts.

If you want a gorgeous looking offshore patrol boat with spray flying and green water over the bow the Fleming is your boat. If you want to cruise long term the Hatt wins hands down.
 
1. Roll is determined by the entire design...weight placed well affects roll and too fast (snap) a roll is not desired anyway.

2. Narrower hull can have a fast or slow or great or small roll..all depends on design.

3. Design has a lot to do with economy...long, thin and light certainly helps...but is not the only set of design criteria to make an efficient boat. It usually impacts on a lot of other design criteria.

4. Hatts are nice for some..but not everyone's cup of tea and certainly not the only vessel to consider....
 
Heck - Consider Tollycraft... I am biased!
 
1. Roll is determined by the entire design...weight placed well affects roll and too fast (snap) a roll is not desired anyway.

2. Narrower hull can have a fast or slow or great or small roll..all depends on design.

3. Design has a lot to do with economy...long, thin and light certainly helps...but is not the only set of design criteria to make an efficient boat. It usually impacts on a lot of other design criteria.

4. Hatts are nice for some..but not everyone's cup of tea and certainly not the only vessel to consider....

Absolutely agree on all points. I tried to make it clear I thought the Fleming would definitely be superior underway. The Hatt is not easy to board, requiring a ladder or sea stairs. Requires some rodeo skills to bring in to floating docks unaided from shore. Rather "bobby" , in my opinion needs stabilizers for comfort (we sure could tell when they were not working). Quite a "wet" boat by the way. That said, we had it in a lot of cruddy conditions, no problema. For living on full time, entertaining and maintaining/fixing, virtually ideal..... for us .
 
Hey there's a guy that I drive for who just called and said the best offer thay had for their Hatt (late 60's I think..but could be a little newer) was $35,000.

It just had a complete exterior paint job and complete main house refinishing inside.

Not a bad boat at that price..even I would have considered it. I could have bought a lot of fuel buying in at that price.

They were asking over a hundred but he asked me if I thought that was the best he was going to do.

At that price I figured they would just keep it as a summer condo at the beach.
 
Some times the hard part is sorting out the difference between what you need and what you want. Also it is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination. The ideal is to find a boat well matched to its use pattern as a boat and as a living accommodation that coincidently fits your budget for buying and maintaining..
 
Everybody thinks they can steal boats now. My buddy has a 60' Michelson 2004 with twin MTU's and he thought he would sell it fast. Offers aren't coming in and it's been in one big boat show too.

He is nervous.
 
Everybody thinks they can steal boats now. My buddy has a 60' Michelson 2004 with twin MTU's and he thought he would sell it fast. Offers aren't coming in and it's been in one big boat show too.

He is nervous.

It's not stealing when you buy a boat for market price in a negotiation with a seller. Why anyone would think they'd sell any large boat fast is beyond me. Offers don't pile in. Many remain for sale for years. And pricing is certainly a factor. Obviously others don't think his boat is worth as much as he does.

It just takes one.

Ok, just takes one buyer to be willing to make his price. But also just takes one seller to offer lower to skew the market and keep the higher priced boats from selling. The market is full of boats and many are being sold at very low prices compared to what others are asking.
 
Stealing is a figure of speech.
When a book price is 70-120K and it sells for 35K and had 20K of work on it recently, that might qualify. But as I always said in the car business, any deal both parties are happy with, is a great deal.
 
When you get into certain types of boats and larger sized boats...I'm not sure there really is a book value...

Kinda like in some areas for real estate..."there are no comps"...or some poor real estate agent is trying to match a Mcmansion to a couple double wides.

Some boats these days may just sit forever till they head for the dumpster...just too many alternatives every day showing up on the market.

I've seen 2 nice, older but fully functional, turn key boats at the marina I'm at (which is pretty small) that the owners tried to give away and were turned down by numerous people.
 
It is also critical that both partners love the boat. "Happy wife/happy life" as Jeff Allen says. On occasion the Better Half isn't heard -- I mean really really heard.


Great rambling, Janice. I think you're really on to something there. It's an infinite spectrum of the not-hearing issue that divide couples on so many issues. When it comes to a big purchase, I do the research and present my findings to the Admiral. We look at the options and I "listen". I'm the adaptable one between the two of us so she gets what she deems "practical" first (which has nothing to do with practicality), and then I get what's practical for me (affordable and manageable), and then we both rush head-long into an emotional decision, hoping for a "practical" result.

The drive to have our own dream often leads to a delusion that our spouse should and could join our dream the way we see it, feel it, realize it, and we'd rather not hear that it doesn't work that way.:nonono:
 
. It is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination.

So well said, Eyschulman. If we simply exchange the word "boat" to almost any thing else, we'll find that the statement fits with just about any ridiculous situation existing in the world today, like below:


It is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are going to use the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES vs. an embellished imagination.

No offense to anyone, by the way.
 
Stealing is a figure of speech.
When a book price is 70-120K and it sells for 35K and had 20K of work on it recently, that might qualify. But as I always said in the car business, any deal both parties are happy with, is a great deal.

There just really isn't a book on boats. The market is too thin. NADA covers them but makes no distinction as to condition, location, desirability. The reason is that the market is too thin. There are simply not enough to have comparables plus the information is not available on sales. The boat you describe may or may not be a good purchase. But it wasn't, as it turns out, a $70-120 boat. And what had recently been spent on a boat means little.
 
Back
Top Bottom