Is boating for the rich? Feeling dismayed

[Mick Scarborough]

Now I am not new to boating and have been boating and cruising since I was 10 years old. (I am 50 now). I was always with my father until his death in 2014. Since he passed, sadly I can not tap into his experience and wisdom anymore so I have to ask here.

I have been researching cruising for a few years, doing lots of reading and investigating. For the last 3 months I have been reading about trawlers.

The one thing I am taking away from this is boating has become a rich man's lifestyle. What's changed? It didn't used to be like that.

My family was not rich. None of our fellow cruising and live aboard friends were rich (except for Burl Ives). Yet they all never had shabby boats, never were incapable of cruising due to break downs or needed maintenance. They were never forced to sell their boats or cancel a cruise because they could not afford a repair.

Yet reading this forum and other forums I am seeing people talk about $40,000 fuel tanks, buying a boat for $120,000 and putting another $200,000 into it just to make it cruise ready. $70,000 in electronics (if you need 70K in electronics to navigate you don't belong on the water).

No one I have known on a boat growing up ever had that kind of money and yet still had fine, pretty and well maintained boats.

So am I too poor to continue my great father's legacy and cruise until I am an old man? When I retire in 2 years I will have a $5000/month pension. In reality that puts my income at more than the vast majority of working American households with two incomes and it seems like I will never afford to own a live aboard yacht.

 

[Baker]

There are an awful lot of variables and generalizations in your questions/post. I think the vast majority of people on here could cruise on your budget with their present boat. I know I could and my boat is not paid for. I do not have a $70k electronics suite. I have not put hundreds of thousands of dollars in my boat. And I would be quite comfortable on my boat. Is my boat the perfect cruising boat....NOPE!!! But show me one that is!!!

Your questions are all very fundamental....like what is cruising to you??? How big of a boat do you need to be comfortable???....things like that.

 

[ksanders]

Mick

What I have found with boats is that somebody always has a bigger, or a nicer boat.

You do not have to be rich to have a cruising lifestyle. That said, no matter how much money you have you can find a boat that will cost all of it.

 

[Mick Scarborough]

There are an awful lot of variables and generalizations in your questions/post. I think the vast majority of people on here could cruise on your budget with their present boat. I know I could and my boat is not paid for. I do not have a $70k electronics suite. I have not put hundreds of thousands of dollars in my boat. And I would be quite comfortable on my boat. Is my boat the perfect cruising boat....NOPE!!! But show me one that is!!!

Your questions are all very fundamental....like what is cruising to you??? How big of a boat do you need to be comfortable???....things like that.

Cruising to me is shoving off and not planning to return home for months at the very least if not years. Bahamas, Caribbean, up the ICW through the Canadian Maritimes, things like that. Very few marinas, mostly anchoring and no time limits for anything. What's a comfortable size? In both sail and trawler I would put it at 35'.

 

[Ski in NC]

A safe, comfortable and reliable cruising boat can be bought for under $100k, some pretty decent ones for under $50k. Some even less. There is a lot of expensive cr@p on most boats that really jacks the price. And that stuff is completely unnecessary for comfortable cruising.

Maintenance and repairs can be rather inexpensive if you are a hands-on type. Farm it out to yards, etc, and that is where the big money flows.

Don't get discouraged, good boats are out there that you can afford to buy and run.

 

[Max Simmons]

I hear ya Mick. When I was growing up it was more like camping on the water and now it seems that your boat is inadequate if you don't have a flat screen with surround sound. Don't get discouraged, there are still boaters out there that value the simplistic lifestyle that boating can offer. They're not tied up strolling up and down the docks in the latest yacht club attire, they're out on the hook in a quiet cove, barbecuing the catch of the day. As I get older (same age as you) the keep it simple mentality has become more of a draw. Keep looking, sometimes it takes years to find the right one.

 

[BandB]

The question is how much do you have saved to buy a boat. There are many retired boaters doing fine on $5000/month and less, but their boat is generally paid for. With a lot it's selling their big home, buying a smaller condo and a boat. I wouldn't say boating requires wealth, but it does require some saving in advance.

 

[Magnawake]

Ski, I caught you surfing instead of working again. I guess I'll bring my boat back up there to give you something to do. My beef is marina cost. Sometimes in the middle of the summer, its good to get a little air conditioning and cool off a little. Especially when the wind isnt blowing. The small little cool towns are nice to explore as well. To do this, the marinas charge an arm and a leg just to tie up for the night. I just wanted to spend the night, not a fortune (as Tom Bodette, model 6 would say). Forget the cost of fuel, the price of marinas kills us. Thats why we anchor out as much as possible. We are on a budget for sure.

 

[Mick Scarborough]

The question is how much do you have saved to buy a boat. There are many retired boaters doing fine on $5000/month and less, but their boat is generally paid for. With a lot it's selling their big home, buying a smaller condo and a boat. I wouldn't say boating requires wealth, but it does require some saving in advance.

I will be able to pay $60000 cash for a boat upon retirement. I have 2 homes in Tampa. The rent I get for one pays the mortgage on both. But I will probably sell at least one of them as managing a rental home from agar is not doable. Pretty much I wont have many bills and I wont finance a boat.

 

[READY2GO]

Wether you have to be rich to cruise depends on you. If you need a new 65' Nordhaven with all the bells and whistles, then I would say yes or be so far in debt that you did not have time to be on the boat because you were working 80 hours a week. If you are happy with a 35 year old leaky teaky that you enjoy tinkering with then the answer is no you don't have to be rich.

 

[Donsan]

You are asking what has changed in 40 years to make it seem like boating is for the rich?

Here are a few things that might make it seem that way:

1. Higher price for a barrel of oil and other commodities​

2. The revaluation of currencies (dollar down, others, specially Asian currencies up)​

3. Added costs of Government regulations such as EPA mandates​

4. Higher international labor costs​

5. Growing populations competing for fixed resources such as water front property​

6. Declining US real income and standard of living​

[FONT=&quot] 7. Changing climate and higher insurance rates caused by increased occurrences of natural disasters

In summary, there has been a decline in our standard of living.


[/FONT]​

 

[Magnawake]

Wether you have to be rich to cruise depends on you. If you need a new 65' Nordhaven with all the bells and whistles, then I would say yes or be so far in debt that you did not have time to be on the boat because you were working 80 hours a week. If you are happy with a 35 year old leaky teaky that you enjoy tinkering with then the answer is no you don't have to be rich.

Thats doable. If you run low on money you can eat Spagetti with mike on his boat like we did at anchor in Boot Key. It doesnt cost that much to cruise. 5K/month is plenty. Just do it dept free though. Thanks again Mike for the dinner.

 

[Wxx3]

Now I am not new to boating and have been boating and cruising since I was 10 years old. (I am 50 now). I was always with my father until his death in 2014. Since he passed, sadly I can not tap into his experience and wisdom anymore so I have to ask here.

I have been researching cruising for a few years, doing lots of reading and investigating. For the last 3 months I have been reading about trawlers.

The one thing I am taking away from this is boating has become a rich man's lifestyle. What's changed? It didn't used to be like that.

My family was not rich. None of our fellow cruising and live aboard friends were rich (except for Burl Ives). Yet they all never had shabby boats, never were incapable of cruising due to break downs or needed maintenance. They were never forced to sell their boats or cancel a cruise because they could not afford a repair.

Yet reading this forum and other forums I am seeing people talk about $40,000 fuel tanks, buying a boat for $120,000 and putting another $200,000 into it just to make it cruise ready. $70,000 in electronics (if you need 70K in electronics to navigate you don't belong on the water).

No one I have known on a boat growing up ever had that kind of money and yet still had fine, pretty and well maintained boats.

So am I too poor to continue my great father's legacy and cruise until I am an old man? When I retire in 2 years I will have a $5000/month pension. In reality that puts my income at more than the vast majority of working American households with two incomes and it seems like I will never afford to own a live aboard yacht.

The others who have commented above have it right on.

But as I was thinking of this response, I understand where you are coming from.
When i first started thinking of this life style, for the first year, as I read everything about Trawlers etc, that was also my impression: Big bucks for rich folks.

Now, i had not found Trawler Forum and wouldn't for a few more years.

When I ran out of the books about power boats crossing oceans, they were virtually all Nordhavns by the way, with 18 redundant features for every nut and boat on board, I was a bit stymied.

Then, out of desperation, I started to read stories of sail boats cruising, etc.
I was never interested in a SV, but after a while, I did see that 90% of what they were doing was applicable to trawlers and they had much more of an attitude of getting it done, without a lot of BS or expensive gadgets.

That pretty much helped to frame our model, that we applied to the Krogen.,

 

[Xsbank]

Unless you can do all your own maintenance and repairs, yes, it's an expensive hobby. If you are handy, then not so much but still up there. Your own oil change, $100. Mechanic doing oil change, $400.

Simple example, a single sheave Japanese stainless block for my flopper stoppers is $100, 1/10th of a boat dollar. Doubles are $150. I have 6 singles and 4 doubles and I should replace the remaining 4 wood ones with 2 more of each. However, I only used $2000 of fuel last year and I still have half a tank. Haul out zincs and paint, $4000. They painted. I did zincs. If the boat is large or not new, expect to be very busy. You must love working on a boat. Or be rich.

 

[obthomas]

I don't consider myself poor or rich. I have a 40 footer that I live on and cruise. One thing I can say for certain.....I could not be doing the yachting I am doing if I didn't do most of the maintenance and repairs myself.

 

[Northern Spy]

The others who have commented above have it right on.

But as I was thinking of this response, I understand where you are coming from.
When i first started thinking of this life style, for the first year, as I read everything about Trawlers etc, that was also my impression: Big bucks for rich folks.

Now, i had not found Trawler Forum and wouldn't for a few more years.

When I ran out of the books about power boats crossing oceans, they were virtually all Nordhavns by the way, with 18 redundant features for every nut and boat on board, I was a bit stymied.

Then, out of desperation, I started to read stories of sail boats cruising, etc.
I was never interested in a SV, but after a while, I did see that 90% of what they were doing was applicable to trawlers and they had much more of an attitude of getting it done, without a lot of BS or expensive gadgets.

That pretty much helped to frame our model, that we applied to the Krogen.,

Sailors read Latitudes and Attitudes to encourage casting off.

Powerboaters read Passagemaker to discourage casting off.

 

[READY2GO]

Thats doable. If you run low on money you can eat Spagetti with mike on his boat like we did at anchor in Boot Key. It doesnt cost that much to cruise. 5K/month is plenty. Just do it dept free though. Thanks again Mike for the dinner.

Are you going to make it to Boot Key this winter? I thought about you guys the other day and wondered where you were.

 

[ragin cajun]

Sailors read Latitudes and Attitudes to encourage casting off.

Powerboaters read Passagemaker to discourage casting off.

Now that's funny...but true!

I still get more usable info out of Cruising Outpost ( L @ A) than I do from PM! Them sail boaters are the real deal.

 

[CPseudonym]

Perhaps what you need to read Mick is the "rest of the story"...

Here is a link to one of my all time favorite blogs. It is written by a woman who has been there, done that for decades. Janice aboard Seaweed, trawler cruising on a nickel budget... She wouldn't know what to buy first given your budget and is a poster to this forum. Read her blog and then try telling me you have to be rich to do this thing.

 

[Magnawake]

Are you going to make it to Boot Key this winter? I thought about you guys the other day and wondered where you were.

Sorry its off the subject, but maybe its not. I start work at the St. Lucie Nuclear Power plant next week. We left the boat at the Ft. Pierce city marina $600/month over the Christmas Holidays. The admiral needed to tend to some family affairs. We plan on heading back to the Carolina's in May. So ya see, we work, live and cruise on the boat and we are happy as clams with the life style.

 

[Baker]

One thing I can say for certain.....I could not be doing the yachting I am doing if I didn't do most of the maintenance and repairs myself.

Cruising is doing your own maintenance on exotic locations. Yachting is having other people do your maintenance in exotic locations. You ain't yachting, amigo!!!!.....

 

[C lectric]

What are your expectations?
$5K buget mo. is only a bit less than what we have.

We have a townhouse, the boat, and truck/trailer. It's all ours though, sort of as I haven't managed to dodge taxes, but no payments.

Payments, unless darn small, will be trouble.

We were older though when we pulled the plug by 8-9 yrs.

Nothing we have is fancy, although comfortable.
I do ALL the mtce with a few exceptions and even then not without a fight to do it myself.

I agree about look a Janice's blog.

If need be don't quit at 50 but maybe 51/52 to get the kitty up. You have some options and one of them is when.

 

[Mick Scarborough]

.

If need be don't quit at 50 but maybe 51/52 to get the kitty up. You have some options and one of them is when.

I am hoping to leave at 52. By leaving at 52 instead of 50, I will get an extra 100K. If I stay to 55 then I get another 200K. I already have high blood pressure from stress and really don't feel like shooting the dice for a mere 200K more. I have never been much for worshipping money and my personal feelings are life cant be bought. So I will not stay until 55. I cant collect the 100k until 57 though so I want to be well into my cruising when that kitty comes into my hands, it will be fun money (or a new damn motor ). My father is my inspiration for my entire life. He told me to live life to its fullest and not work until the grave. Its a beautiful world out there and I refuse to miss it.

 

[High Wire]

You can do a lot on $5K/month without being a squatter except if you need a lot of paid outside help.
Private residences offer reasonable long-term dockage. Search Craigs List for Dock or Slip.
Some big ticket items that are hard to avoid:
Insurance, especially if you boat in FL. The magic number seems to be a 30 year old boat. Over that, some insurers don't even want to talk to you.
Marina transient docks: Under $2/ft/night is my target when not anchored out. Different for everybody. You have to come ashore sometime.
Land home: One huge expense if its empty while you are cruising. We have 2! Fortunately they are very low maint cost properties. Property taxes are a killer.

 

[Mule]

$70,000 in electronics....how can you do that on boat...ship maybe but boat???
Look, no property tax, if you cash it some, maybe a lot of leeway on sales tax. Still have yearly ins, maintance and so forth. On $60k you should be fine. Boat parts are sold by the troy ounce, so buy an already reconditioned boat planning on spending 10-20% of purchase price.
Yachtworld is full of em.
Go talk to Carl at Elite Marine in St Pete on Hickory Creek. Tell him Hobart sent Ya for advice, he will point Ya in the right direction. You can do this, affordability, comfortably. Not in a 2 million super yacht but easily in a reasonably sized trawler.

 

[N4712]

$70,000 in electronics....how can you do that on boat...ship maybe but boat???

It's very possible.

 

[ksanders]

$70,000 in electronics....how can you do that on boat...ship maybe but boat???

Easy to get there, especially when you add in satellite communications capability.

 

[AusCan]

You are asking what has changed in 40 years to make it seem like boating is for the rich?

Here are a few things that might make it seem that way:

1. Higher price for a barrel of oil and other commodities​

2. The revaluation of currencies (dollar down, others, specially Asian currencies up)​

3. Added costs of Government regulations such as EPA mandates​

4. Higher international labor costs​

5. Growing populations competing for fixed resources such as water front property​

6. Declining US real income and standard of living​

[FONT=&quot] 7. Changing climate and higher insurance rates caused by increased occurrences of natural disasters

In summary, there has been a decline in our standard of living.


[/FONT]​

I would say you didn't list the biggest change.

Higher Expectations.

Nowadays people "need" plenty of power to get there fast; air conditioning is a "must have" ; the latest hi-tech electronics need to match; only the best anchor will keep a boat safe; active stabilizers are required to venture out of protected waters. It never ends.

It's not just boats. Look at today's 1st home buyers. They "need" 2+ bathrooms, 4 bedrooms, granite bench tops, ceramic tiling, etc etc.
The cost of building a house hasn't increased as much as the expectations.

If you can control your expectations, you can control the costs.

 

[CPseudonym]

If you can control your expectations, you can control the costs.

Great point.

When we first went boat shopping we where quickly looking at boats well over 40' and significantly more money than we spent. One look at my avatar photo will tell you we went in a different direction. Just because you can afford something does in no way mean you should buy it. In our case the larger, more expensive boat would have been a complete disaster. While we have entertained the thought of getting out of boating entirely recently it has nothing to do with our choice of boats.

A realistic definition of our mission made our choice clear. Your budget looks entirely realistic if your expectations are too.

 

[psneeld]

Boating is what you make it....a small sailboat gets you a lot of boating and travel for cheap.

Beyond 40 or so years ago it was a dedicated sport....only the dedicated or the rich had more than runabouts. It seemed like hardly anyone I knew even in shore towns had more than a runabout....now it seems like everyone has something at least in the 20s and maybe a pair of jet skis.

With the advent of glass boats and cheaper outboards (in comparison)....and less technical and/or backbreaking boating skills such as caulking seams required....and the irrational financial exuberance of the 80s and 90s sent boating in an upward spiral it seemed to me.

Boating a rich man's sport?...Nah....maybe BIG boating has become one as I could not afford my boat if I didn't live aboard and do all the work myself.