Guns onboard

[albin43]

do you keep a gun onboard? if so what kind do you have and what are your thoughts?

im going to purchase the Mossberg J-I-C mariner

attached is a link..

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/41020

 

[Fotoman]

This subject is a can of worms.

 

[KMA]

Albin - I have exactly that model for my boat defense weapon.* You'll love it... and the price shown in your add is excellent!

Don't bother using the leatherman that comes in the kit... it's trash.

You can also get a folding stock for it, making practicing much more comfortable than shooting from the hip!

 

[skipperdude]

I keep a Snake Charmer 4/10 shotgun.
Stainless. Little short thing You can one hand it. I sometimes fish for Halibut. Over 50 lbs I shoot befor bringing it aboard.
They tend to thrash around a bit. Gotta be carefull though. I once shot the hook off
SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 09:19:53 AM

 

[Codger2]

I'm with SD on this one. The Snake Charmer with rifle slugs is an excellent gun to have on board. I saw my first one while Halibut fishing in Alaska and it was used as SD indicated, quieting a large halibut before bringing it aboard. They can really tear up a boat! (The fish that is.)

 

[skipperdude]

Walt,
You messing around with young women?
I'm telling the Admiral.
SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 11:11:44 AM

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 11:13:59 AM

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 12:05:56 PM

 

[skipperdude]

Woah. What happened here? I was trying to post a small pic of myself.
Sorry all.

Now I can't get rid of it.
SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 11:16:19 AM

 

[skipperdude]

Hey John How do I delete a post?
I am so embarrassed.

.SD

 

[RT Firefly]

Holy crap SD please delete, the dog just puked!!!!!

 

[skipperdude]

I know!!* i know !!

Help me out here befor something worse happens.
The site may crash.

Warning warning!!! Run away. Will robinson

 

[sunchaser]

I saw the same face on the post office wall. Who needs a gun with a mean look like that!

 

[skipperdude]

Yeah,
****And I know how to use it too

SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 04:17:57 PM

 

[koliver]

In my youth I worked on a Salmon troller. We had a gun aboard, a rifle that we used to blow the brains out of giant halibut so we could get them aboard. Took some shots at seals and sea lions that were taking the coho off our hooks. That's probably illegal now, so I can't see any reason you would need a gun on your boat.
Oh... you guys are in the USof A! different place.

 

[Marin]

albin43 wrote:

do you keep a gun onboard? if so what kind do you have and what are your thoughts?

We do not keep a gun on board but when we take longer cruises we take one with us.* We use the same firearm we use when we take floatplane trips up the Inside Passage and into BC and SE Alaska--- a 12-gauge pump*Savage Model 69 RXL with an 18.25" barrel and an extended magazine.* This gun is legal in Canada and we have it primarily for bear protection in remote areas.

Having had numerous bear encounters on our floatplane trips, one in which we had to use the shotgun, we feel safer in remote areas having one with us if we plan to go ashore.

We do not carry a handgun as these are illegal to have in Canada unless you are just going to carry it in transit through the country and then you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get the permit, have the gun sealed by Canadian Customs, etc.* So even if you have one with you legally it's worthless since you cannot use it for anything without breaking the seal, which then subjects*you *to a whole bunch of penalties, none of them pleasant or cheap.

And anyway, for the purposes* for which we need a firearm, a handgun is pretty much worthless anyway.

-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 24th of February 2010 07:23:21 PM

 

[Arctic Traveller]

We have the Mossburg mariner, and have found it to be quite robust.* We carry it for bear protection in remote areas, but as of now, we have not needed it. Still it's nice to know that if we did have a problem, we would have a back-up.* The Mossburg has proven to be very rust resistant, and reliable.* Virtually all the shells we have put through it have been aimed at clay pigeons off the top deck though.* We do carry it through Canada, it simply requires getting a permit each time we check in.* We got stopped once though, just North of Campbell River, and despite having all the proper paperwork, and being totally legal, the officer was very insistent that we should not be carrying it, and it was clear that we were opening ourselves for further detailed inspection.* Never the less, it has been a good gun............Arctic Traveller

Stop and see us at the San Diego Trawler Fest

 

[Delfin]

I have the same gun. In law enforcement, these are 'entry guns', i.e. a weapon you hold to your chest as you kick in the door and enter yelling "Freeze Scumbag" at the top of your lungs. The short barrel makes it easier to swivel in close spaces.

My intent was to buy the optional line launcher and pretend that it wasn't a gun, but a safety device, but they don't seem to make the launcher anymore. If you want to take a gun into Canada it is a major hassle, and since that is mostly where we cruise I have had to leave the Mossberg home.

Even in U.S. waters, a routine safety boarding becomes more difficult when you carry a weapon. Sadly, the ability to carry this particular tool to protect against threats to family safety is encumbered by the huge amount of flak you have to endure. It may not be worth it...

 

[Marin]

Delfin wrote:

If you want to take a gun into Canada it is a major hassle, and since that is mostly where we cruise I have had to leave the Mossberg home.

That's odd.* We have never been told we needed a permit for the shotgun in Canada and have never been inspected by Customs when we told them we had a firearm. All they ever ask, both with the boat and with the plane, is what kind of firearm we have, the overall length, and if it's loaded.* We even clear into Canada by phone and answer the same questions and every time they have taken the information on the phone and issued us our clearance number.

*

 

[sunchaser]

Marin - The same customs form you sign for air travel asking if you have a firearm, applies to boaters. We just got our Nexus cards and it is clearly written and stated that carrying firearms on boats, cars, planes etc into Canada/US is strictly prohibiited. It has been this way for the past 40 to 50 years when entering Canada. 40 years ago I had a nice Browning confiscated as I entered Canada - learned my lesson. Last year my brother had a 2 hour wait after declaring a bear gun at the customs dock, but they eventually let him enter. Next thing you know they will be asking if you carry*fruits, vegetables, tobacco, booze or*meat!

-- Edited by sunchaser on Thursday 25th of February 2010 04:24:28 AM

 

[FF]

do you keep a gun onboard? if so what kind do you have and what are your thoughts?


Would never have "A" gun aboard , like any tool they are useful in a variety of styles.

For ICW cruising a 20 G (the bride is only 100 lbs) and is filled with bird shot.

The (my ) 12 G has TWO BLANKS as first load and bird (wont take out the rigging) .

Useful for answering the door , and a warning blast WONT BE LETHAL.

THE 357 HAS "safty " loads , basically bird shot , fine inside the cabin as it wont take apart the interior.

In the Carib and Bahamas the trusty SS Mini 14 , folding stock and a bunch of 20 round clips taped , will take care of any warnings needed .

That's the stuff I'm willing to share , the rest will remain private.

 

[albin43]

FF wrote:

do you keep a gun onboard? if so what kind do you have and what are your thoughts?


Would never have "A" gun aboard , like any tool they are useful in a variety of styles.

For ICW cruising a 20 G (the bride is only 100 lbs) and is filled with bird shot.

The (my ) 12 G has TWO BLANKS as first load and bird (wont take out the rigging) .

Useful for answering the door , and a warning blast WONT BE LETHAL.

THE 357 HAS "safty " loads , basically bird shot , fine inside the cabin as it wont take apart the interior.

In the Carib and Bahamas the trusty SS Mini 14 , folding stock and a bunch of 20 round clips taped , will take care of any warnings needed .

That's the stuff I'm willing to share , the rest will remain private.

im with you FF

*

 

[Tom.B]

No guns on my boat. I have considered the idea, but I'm just not comfortable with firearms enough to want to own one. There may be a day in the future that I will want to take a few beginner shooting and safety classes to feel like I could have a single small weapon onboard (maybe a 9mm or something), but I will have a lot of soul searching to do before that day comes. In the meantime, I am happy to take my chances that someone that want to rob a boater will look at my 35' trawler from the 80's and see someone that is hardly worth their time. It would be like car-jacking a '71 Pinto instead of the '08 Lexus in the next lane.

 

[Arctic Traveller]

Delfin wrote:

If you want to take a gun into Canada it is a major hassle, and since that is mostly where we cruise I have had to leave the Mossberg home.

We have crossed the border about 15 times in the last few years, all while carrying our Mossburg.* EVERY time we are required to purchase a permit. In years past it was good for a year, but a couple years ago they changed it to only be valid for three months. This means I have to get a new permit each spring and fall. Getting the permit is very simple.* When checking in, the customs folks come to the boat and issue it on the spot, never any problem at all.* When we were stopped near Campbell River, had we not had the permit, I have no doubt we would have been in loads of trouble.* As it was we had to endure a lot of flack from the officers for even having it, but we were totally legal so we escaped the boarding process with little problem.* .............Arctic Traveller

Stop and see us at the San Diego Trawler fest* March 4, 5, and 6th

*

 

[Avista]

XE Services (fka Blackwater) offers the finest civilian weapons training in the country imho (no affiliation on my part) you can find them at "ustraining.com"

I believe the choice should be yours as to owning and carrying a firearm, but if you choose to do so, get trained.* They used to say 'train hard or don't train at all' ...at least that's what is on my souvenir coffee cup

 

[Marin]

sunchaser wrote:

It has been this way for the past 40 to 50 years when entering Canada.

Sorry but in every floatplane flight we have made into Canada starting in 1985 we have carried the shotgun, sometimes two of them, and we have NEVER had to obtain a permit or do anything other than answer a couple of customs questions either directly to the agent on the dock or over the phone.* Our experience with the boat has been exactly the same.

I have gone moose hunting in BC numerous times in the 1980s and 90s, and on driving across the border at Blaine have NEVER had to obtain a permit to take our rifles into Canada.* The agents have sometimes wanted to look at them to make sure they were not loaded and that the actions were opened per their requirements.* But I have never had to obtain a permit and the couple of times I've actually asked an agent abou this as we checked into Canada he or she simply said, "No need."

So there seems to be a major disconnect betweeen whatever is printed in the regulation and what the agents actually do.

I have no objection to getting a permit on crossing the border and the process is apparently dead simple,*but so far, starting in 1979 when I moved to Washington to the present (the last time I took*a firearm into Canada was last September) I have never been told to fill anything out and in most cases the agents were satisfied with the verbal answers I gave to their "do you have a firearm"*questions and didn't even want to see the firearm.

So from my perspective, if it ain't broke, I ain't gonna fix it.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 25th of February 2010 04:34:57 PM

 

[albin43]

I went to gander mtn tonight and bought a mossberg 500 cruiser just in case model. No marinecoat for me. Wd40 will do just fine. Plus I don't like the look of the nickel plating.

 

[Arctic Traveller]

Marin wrote:Sorry but in every floatplane flight we have made into Canada starting in 1985 we have carried the shotgun, sometimes two of them, and we have NEVER had to obtain a permit

Marin,* I think you are taking a BIG chance without a permit.* This is a quote taken directly from the RCMP website.** See it here:* http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/pol-leg/hl-fs-eng.htm

<h3>Requirements for Non-residents</h3>
Non-residents who wish to bring a firearm to Canada and who are at least 18 years old can meet Canada's licence and registration requirements by filling out the Non-Resident Firearms Declaration and having it confirmed by a customs officer. A confirmed declaration serves as a temporary licence and registration certificate for the firearm being imported. Non-residents also have the option of obtaining a PAL and registering their firearms in Canada.

*

I believe that no matter what anyone has told you in the past, officially or not, you run the risk of loss of your firearms at minimum, or far worse depending on the mood at the time the violation is discovered.* We were boarded by the RCMP, and one of the first questions asked was "Are the any firearms aboard"?, The next statement was "May I see your permit"?

Perhaps you have been lucky in the past, but I think you are living on borrowed time, and as easy as it is to remain in compliance, why would you choose not to do so?* The law clearly requires you to obtain a Firearms declaration, and without it you are breaking the law.* Not something I would want to do in Canada, as you could be denied entry forever more as a criminal......................Arctic Traveller

Stop and see us at the San Diego Trawler fest March 4,5, and 6th

*

*

 

[Marin]

Like I said, I have no problems with getting a permit. But each time I've asked customs when we've come across the border with the shotgun, they have told us that there is no need for us to get a permit. Since they are the ones who apparently issue the permit, it seems sort of unproductive to demand that they issue us a permit that they just told us we don't need.

Seems a kind of Catch-22 to me......

 

[Penta]

Marin et-al, the controlling agency in Canada is the RCMP and not the border agents. The border agents simply check the fire arm (s) and issue a control number but it is still an official RCMP form. Like a whole lot of our current border issues it all depends on the agent in question but if you do not have the permit and are challenged by an RCMP member you would, in my opinion, be in deep s--t and it would not be worth the risk to not have one as you said.
The entire firearms regulation issue in Canada is a real mess what with the original government estimate of $2 million dollars to implement the registry and ended up costing in excess of $3 billion and the government auditors have found so many fouled up booking areas that they are still not sure that's all it cost.
An example of how fouled up it is - I have 3 custom made antique English rifles and a shotgun that I inherited from my grandfather who brought them with him in 1909 when he immigrated to Canada. So -- I dutifully send in my fee and all the information I can recover from the guns which have no serial numbers per say, and I get back 4 tags to adhere to them with absolutely no reference as to what tag belongs to what gun - go figure! Now the time has come to re-register so I send in the info and they say - hey those numbers are all on the wrong guns but still do not tell me what goes where - both the local RCMP and I gave up at that point and the RCMP tagged my local file to say there was a question as to the numbers but that they were all legit and they also agreed with me that if I put a modern cartridge in any one of them and fired it that the gun would probably explode in my face so they are of no risk in a criminal sence except maybe a case of fright by the oposite person on seeing one of them
So - make a short stop at the border and get a permit and the everyone will be sort of happy!
John

 

[Marin]

Penta wrote:

So - make a short stop at the border and get a permit and the everyone will be sort of happy!
John

That makes sense but......* on my most recent border crossing with a firearm I asked the customs agent if I need to fill out a permit request.* She said no.* I said are you sure.* She said yes but they would check, pull ahead into the parking area.* Went inside, the person at the counter called (in front of me) the RCMP, described the situation, asked if I needed to fill out a permit, listened, hung up the phone and said "Nope," and sent me on my way.

I have printed out the relevant form and will put some on the boat and keep some at home for the car and plane*and fill them out and*present them*to the*customs agent when we cross over again with a firearm.* But*based on the reaction I've gotten so far, I expect to see a blank look and be asked "what's this?"

The first time we crossed into Canada with a dog, which would have been in the mid-1980s, we read that we had to make sure that we had the dog's current vaccination papers. So we did.* I've never counted but I'm guessing that we've entered Canada at least a hundred times with a dog*since then, and not once-- with the dog sitting there looking at the customs agent and the agent looking back at the dog--- have we ever been asked a word about the dog's papers.

We've had the dog's food confiscated by the US customs folks on the way back in--- mad cow disease paranoia--- but the Canadian customs agents apparently didn't get the memo about vaccination papers for dogs coming in.* It seems the situation is no different for the gun permit.

On the other hand, our dogs have all been a Canadian breed, so maybe the agents just figured they were returning citizens.....



-- Edited by Marin on Friday 26th of February 2010 01:04:31 AM

 

[Marin]

For anyone interested and who's not seen one this is the Savage 69-RXL. Eighteen and a quarter inch barrel, seven-round magazine, overall length is about 38 inches. It's what Alaska Fish & Game acquaintances advised us to buy when we started taking the floatplane into serious back country in BC and SE Alaska in the later 1980s. For bear protection we load it with alternating slug and buckshot shells. We also carry a box of birdshot shells as part of our survival kit. Savage came out with this in the mid-'80s and it was popular with law enforcement and was used by the military. It is no longer in Savage''s production lineup--- I don't know when it was taken out of production. A quick internet search turned up several for sale at reasonable prices.