Taiwanese Trawler Deck Construction

[Leatherneck]

Hi All!
I've been looking at getting my first trawler and have kinda focused on several 40 - 50 ft Taiwanese sundeck models in the 1985 - 1990 vintage. I was wondering what material was typically used when they constructed the decks. Specifically was it cored balsa wood or some other type of cored material? I like the layouts of the Marine Traders, Jeffersons and Californians in particular. I'm aware of the potential problems with water intrusion in these decks so will be cautious in that regard. Are balsa cored decks a particular problem?
Thanks!
George

 

[geoleo]

WOW! This is oft discussed here -so search it out. The opinions of most here is that teak decks are a plague on humanity if they are installed Taiwan style they are sure to fail and must be removed. Usually they are screwed with plugs into a top thin layer of fiberglass that usually sits on a layer of plywood which in turn sits on a thin layer of fiberglass. The multitude of screws leak rain water or any deck water and go into the plywood or whatever and rot it out and now you have weak stinky decks which many times continue the leaking into the boats interior.

 

[Leatherneck]

Yes, I've read a lot of the threads about the teak deck issues. I was reading the current "To Duflex or not to Duflex" post this evening and there was a discussion about balsa cored decks and foam cored decks. Seemed to not like the balsa cored decks. Was wondering which might be better and which style was typically used on the Taiwanese trawlers.
Thanks,
George

 

[geoleo]

Many great boats have balsa cored hulls and decks and cabintops including many very costly ones. In Taiwan Trawlers its the teak screwed thru them that's the problem. Some PVC foam cored hulls do not last long if its underwater . Its all how quality control was done. This is a different issue than Taiwan teak Decks!!

 

[geoleo]

Many C&C sailboats are going strong without a problem after 40 years and the entire boat is balsa cored. These boats are primarily Ocean racers. Some are 61 ft long.

 

[Leatherneck]

Thanks GeoLeo. I think that answered my question. As usual, I will need a good survey with particular attention paid to the known Taiwanese trawler issues including the deck condition.

 

[Comodave]

Unfortunately there isn’t really any sure way to know what was used as core in the Taiwan built boats, apparently they used whatever they had on hand at the time in some yards. And it really doesn’t matter what was used, what matters is does it have teak decks and how was the deck maintained. If it has teak decks it almost certainly will have some wet core unless they have been repaired. As to maintenance, how were things bedded on the deck. Were the holes reefed out and thickened epoxy filled? Most likely not. Are you handy and willing to take on a wet core deck? It isn’t difficult technically but it is hard grunt work recoring the deck. My boat only has teak decks on the hardtop covered sundeck, fortunately. Even then with the fiberglass decks forward the bedding had not been done properly or maintained properly so there were several places that had been recored when I bought it.

 

[Leatherneck]

Thanks for the added info Comodave. Useful stuff.

 

[Comodave]

After refinishing my teak decks on the sundeck this last winter, I wish I didn’t have even that much teak decking...

 

[Leatherneck]

It does look nice though.

 

[Comodave]

Not when you spend hundreds of hours on your knees working on it.

 

[T210DRVR]

I’m sure this will draw the ire of some purists but the teak on my GB42 was in poor condition and was torn out by the previous owner. Holes were patched and the surface was primed with Awlgrip. Thankfully the Fiberglass on my boat deck is pretty stout and no underlying damage was noted by the Surveyor. It’s now been finished with Awlgrip and textured.

My point here is sometimes you get what you pay for. It appears that some Taiwanese manufacturers had inconsistent quality in their builds.

 

[BruceK]

gjweston, the "Taiwanese Trawler" may not be consistent on deck construction, even within brand. My 1981 China/ Hong Kong boat has foam core decks. Take each one as you find it but yes, most likely construction is two fibreglass layers sandwiching teak offcuts between. Quite a few boats will have had the teak removed replaced with painted non skid f/glass, and the "real" deck underneath repaired. It is not a cheap job, look out for one of those.

 

[kchace]

In my limited experience Taiwanese built trawlers vary GREATLY in build quality and materials used. It depended on what yard and even what CREW was doing the work. It seems many (most?) of those built in the 70's-80's used "local" wood between the decks. This usually means some kind of tropical hardwood. Fortunately, its much more rot resistant than balsa which in my experience was used on higher end boats and usually in those cases is properly encapsulated. (Balsa is extremely rot prone if it gets wet)

All that said, teak teaks done the old fashioned way (with many many screws) have to be maintained properly otherwise they do start to leak into the core.

For me, when I started looking for my trawler, if it had teak decks I would move along.

Ken

 

[psneeld]

I personally would guess that no Taiwanese trawler from the 60s-90s used high tech materials...meaning they used plywood not foam....


Exceptions? Sure a few but not a lot.


My 1988 Albin used teak plywood...and although wet for years before I bought her....the teak ply actually wasn't rotten...just de-laminated from the glass where people stepped down from the flybridge...the rest was solid and dried out nicely when I took off the teak screwed down decks.

 

[SeaMoose]

You can’t have 1,000 holes in something that’s walked on and expect it won’t leak eventually no mater what high tech materials are used....

 

[Donna]

I have a 1986 marine trader sundeck. No teak decks. Mine are fiberglass. No soft spots. I do not know if there was a rehab of the decks before my purchase 3 years ago, but guessing, it’s original. I personally rolled and tipped all the decks and topside and if it was a rehab at some point, then it was a stellar job.

 

[78puget-trawler]

My old teak deck was leaking thru a few screw holes last year, found this out when I switched from covered to uncovered moorage. Dumb? Maybe. Covered was hitting $500 a month, a bit steep!
Anyway, removed the screws, on butts, which were moving around. Poured some penetrating epoxy into the screw holes several times and watched it vanish, then put the screws back in and pulled the butts back down. The leak was forward and running aft right around my bunk of course.
That did stop the leak but anticipating further such issues, I opted to paint the teak with Gluvit with tint, then painted it with thick brown porch and deck paint, two coats with non skid on the second. It don't leak and its holding up pretty well.
No way am I going to spend the required dollars or further ruin already bad knees (nearly 30 years of shipwright work) doing it the right way. These old tubs just aren't worth it.

 

[Comodave]

Our boat only had teak decks on the mostly protected sundeck but the glass decks on the bow has a zillion stress cracks due to too thick gel coat. I sanded the deck smooth to get the non skid pattern off and painted it with Kiwigrip which covered all the stress cracks and now looks great and is very non skid.

 

[syjos]

Sandpiper, a Taiwam built 1976 Bluewater Pilothouse has a solid fiberglass hull. But the decks, roofs and everything else above the hull is glass over mahogany plywood.

Inside and above the hull, it is constructed like a wood boat with mahogany frames, deck beams, stringers.

I was fortunate that the PO deleted teak decking except in the cockpit when he ordered the boat. He also deleted the teak railings.

The teak deck in the cockpit is fastened with screws directly to the plywood with a black elastic adhesive. I'm not sure if polysulfides were available then, but it looks like it. It could also be butyl too.

The differences between the various trawlers construction methods were largely due to the primitive boat building industry in Taiwan during the 60's and 80's. Builders were switching to FRP and slowly evolving their building methods as knowledge and techniques improved. First boats were FRP hull and glass over plywood deck and topsides. As mold building technology advanced, more and more topside molds were developed and coring became necessary for strength weight and cost.

Almost all Taiwan trawlers from the 70's and 80's use either plywood or end grain balsa coring in the decks. There were reports of the Taiwan yard using regular plywood for coring instead of marine plywood when the American manager was not in the shop.

 

[Art]

Our American made Tolly has virtually no wood outside [couple of thin horizontal teak spacers at bridge sides next to top and vertical trim pieces alongside both sliders' sides. No soft decks. No rot at all except one tiny soft spot [1" x 2"] over the porthole in port side forward head. That rot is on inside wall due to previously bad calking outside on top of porthole frame. I've left it alone and dry for over a decade. Unless you know it's there... you'd never know it's there.

We keep her in covered berth! IMO, for the long run... that overall boat protection is really worth the cost.

 

[fractalphreak]

When we started looking for NWD, we quickly determined that finding a boat that either 1) had factory fiberglass-only decks or 2) had professionally (or competently) fiberglass decks (IE no teak decks with holes drilled into the deck structure) was a high priority or would be a large cost adjustment if we were to consider one. As it turned out we found NWD which I believe has a combination of our two requirements.

Our boat was made in Taiwan, but without teak main decks. I <think> the aft cabin and flybridge deck were teak, as both show sides of a non-factory appearing finish (gelcoat with crushed walnut shells type grit for non-skid) making me think someone repaired them in the past. The aft cabin is soft but seems to not be getting wet, so I think the repair was half what it should have been. Fortunately the flybridge seems strong. The aft cabin top needs the core replaced and the surface is showing signs of cracking, so it will need to be done this coming spring / early summer.

The main decks all have a non-skid diamond pattern, and are about 1/4 glass, 3/4 plywood, then 3/16 or so glass on the underside. The fuel fills and water fill had raised mounts molded into the deck. The two soft spots I've found were around a (likely) owner-added deck-port for a pump out that was not properly sealed, exposing the plywood core to water as well as an area near the water fill which I am still trouble shooting. I don't think the moisture came in from the top; it was either from an ill-fitting fill hose 2" hose squeezed down to a 1 3/4" fill spout or it was from an issue with the hull/house joint leaking. I've mitigated both and am watching it this fall. If I've eliminated the moisture source then I will need to replace about 6-8 square feet of deck core that is accessible in my lazarrette.

Here's a photo of when I went to move the deck port for the pump out...the non-skid and gelcoat ground down so I could add a 3/8" raised "bump" for the deck fitting to set above deck level to lessen the chance of water ever draining past even when the sealant gives up (matching the others on the boat.) You can see here I've almost finished getting the plywood core removed about 1/2" back so I could seal it with thickened vinylester resin.

The overall state of the decks and my knowledge of how they go together made me comfortable with them, and more willing than not to gamble on what might be hidden under them. In the end we came out ok - they hadn't leaked on the tanks and rotten them from the top, and aside from the trouble spots noted are in good shape physically. What I haven't already fixed or mitigated I have the plans, means, and ability to do during the upcoming spring season (at least I hope I can fit it all in!)

The core I removed for the below photo was clean, dry, hard, new looking plywood - not even some of the fractional pieces of hardwood some have found. I'm lucky I think though.

 

[Alemao]

 

[Alemao]

 

[Tom.B]

Heck, even my American-made motoryacht from 2000 has balsa-cored decks. And yes, the core got wet in spots from the factory shortcutting the building process. The difference from an asian make is that the top layer of glass is thick enough that the deck never got spongey. Just something to deal with... it isn’t the end of the world.

 

[rslifkin]

Heck, even my American-made motoryacht from 2000 has balsa-cored decks. And yes, the core got wet in spots from the factory shortcutting the building process. The difference from an asian make is that the top layer of glass is thick enough that the deck never got spongey. Just something to deal with... it isn’t the end of the world.

Same story here. I've been finding some areas of my decks with coring issues (all balsa core as far as I know). Haven't yet figured out what's wet vs rotted vs delaminated, but I do have a couple of areas that make a little noise if you step on them just right (no perceptible flex, however). So those areas definitely have issues. After some investigation, it turns out that not a single deck penetration had the core sealed in any way from the factory. They just drilled through the deck and called it good. Fortunately, with the decks not being spongy, I can figure out a good time and method to fix it on my terms instead of it being a "fix it now" thing.