Alternative Swim Platform Materials

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Daddyo

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It's time for me to start my new swim step project. I'm still considering wrapping plywood in CPES then fiberglass or maybe just paint. If I don't go that route then the other option is to build a new one in the standard slat configuration but I would prefer to build it in something more responsible and more important cheaper then teak. My new step will be 3'x14' and the materials cost will ramp up really fast! What other woods would you recommend?


-- Edited by Daddyo on Friday 24th of February 2012 11:01:12 AM
 
I think I'm just going to use 1 inch exterior ply and glass over it after cutting similar slots as the slatted previous.

As long as all penetrations are properly sealed and you repair quickly after any damage...WAY cheaper and faster to build. If you get a decent glass finish and tape/paint/non-skid OK...no one will be the wiser.
 
Daddyo wrote:
*What other woods would you recommend?
*We have a guy in our marina that has built Douglas Fir swim steps on his last three boats. They are very large as well. About 4' x 14'. I am not sure what chemical treatment he has done on them. He used 2x4s from the lumber yard. Not the most elegant look, but it works.
 
I wonder if a guy could use some type of composite decking, ripped down and bolted together? The Trex I just used on my deck doesn't want to span very far, but maybe if you used a jig, drilled and shoved galvanized all-thread through the whole depth?
 
How about one slab of UHMW or starboard?

SD
 
skipperdude wrote:
How about one slab of UHMW or starboard?

SD
*starboard isn't structural enough..I was thinking those plastic deck boards but when I spanned my swim platform supports the sag was way too much

*
 
psneeld wrote:
I think I'm just going to use 1 inch exterior ply and glass over it after cutting similar slots as the slatted previous.
*Watch out with treated plywood. The fiberglass resin won't stick to it.

SD
 
psneeld wrote:
*
starboard isn't structural enough..I was thinking those plastic deck boards but when I spanned my swim platform supports the sag was way too much

*How about adding a couple more supports underneath.

SD
 
Definently no treated ply. Adding supports would cost more then using a beefier system. TREX isn't an opion for me as the spans are too great and for this reason Starboard wont work either.
 
If I were going to use plywood, I would spring for marine plywood of half the desired thickness, since they come in four foot widths, then glue two layers together. Say two thicknesses of 1/2 inch for a total of 1". And I would not cut any slots in it, because you would increase the amount of ply edge, and make it very difficult and tedious to get all the edges sealed. I would also use marine ply due to the availability of fourteen foot lengths without any homemade scarf joint in the middle of the step. Just my thoughts. I'll expect the standard 2 cent fee for my advice. *
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Daddyo wrote:What other woods would you recommend?
******** About 600 years of selecting good wood for the exterior of a boat says

TEAK.
 
Have you considered Ipe, also known as Pau Lope? It is a tropical hardwood from South America used most often here for decking. It weathers to a nice gray/silver like untreated teak. Our 2005 deck looks great. I also used it as a backer to mount the fishfinder on the Mako.

Rob

37' Sedan

*
 
Alternative Swim Platform Mterials

You might want to price out Teak from East Teak

http://www.eastteak.com/

I had to replce a section of rub rail and they were about 1/2 the price of the specialty wood stores around here.




-- Edited by Max Simmons on Friday 24th of February 2012 12:21:43 PM
 
One of the nicest swim steps I have seen used stainless tubing running side to side about 4-6" apart and starboard slats running fore and aft. With no significant span, the starboard was plenty strong. No wood -- a good thing!.

dvd
 
I always thought if I find myself in this position I'd seriously consider 3/4" aluminum plate cut to shape(slots and all) and have it epoxy powder coated the color of your choice. Wouldn't be a budget saver but the maintenance should be severely curtailed...
 
dvd wrote:
One of the nicest swim steps I have seen used stainless tubing running side to side about 4-6" apart and starboard slats running fore and aft. With no significant span, the starboard was plenty strong. No wood -- a good thing!.

dvd
Would love to see a pic of that as we will need to replace our starboard platform not too many seasons hence.

Will also look at Ipe.

But if we can afford it, then teak.
 
If you are going to use two layers,( I'd recommend 3/4") there is no need to use the 14 foot marine ply because you could stagger the joints. I built one for our 38' tolly that way and it worked out very well. I used epoxy resin for the glass work, rather than polyester and used a layer of tape on the edges for extra strength before glassing the whole thing. I had planned a stainless edge band but never got around to it.
I like to use the fine grit for my non-skid and use a salt shaker to shake it into wet paint. Much easier to get a uniform consistency that way and you don't have to guess how much to mix up! Then a quick vacuum to pick up the loose sand and a couple more coats of paint. I always tape off "waterways" too of course.
 
Boathommy wrote:
If you are going to use two layers,( I'd recommend 3/4") there is no need to use the 14 foot marine ply because you could stagger the joints. I built one for our 38' tolly that way and it worked out very well. I used epoxy resin for the glass work, rather than polyester and used a layer of tape on the edges for extra strength before glassing the whole thing. I had planned a stainless edge band but never got around to it.
I like to use the fine grit for my non-skid and use a salt shaker to shake it into wet paint. Much easier to get a uniform consistency that way and you don't have to guess how much to mix up! Then a quick vacuum to pick up the loose sand and a couple more coats of paint. I always tape off "waterways" too of course.
*I think that's what I'm going to do if I can find some decent exterior 3/4...you did say you used 2 layers 3/4...right?

*
 
Would love to see a pic of that...

Unfortunately I don't have a picture of it. It's on a friend's Nordhavn and he is currently cruising the Caribbean then taking off to the Med -- I probably won't see it for a while.

dvd
 
Yes, 2 layers of 3/4 ply.* Go to a real lumber yard and tell them you want at least 5 ply AC plywood, more plys are better.* fir would be best but if water gets in it really won't matter.* Glue together with thickened epoxy, west or System three would be my suggestion.* Do the final trimming to shape, rout the edges with at least a 3/8 radius bit* so the glass forms smoothly. . .

*

I like to lay out the future penetrations, like where the mounts will screw to the underside and rout out an area and fill it with an epoxy/glass mixture so there is no chance of water getting to the plywood core.

Yes, there is a little extra work to save quite a bit of money but if you think about this logically, you can build yourself a nice swimstep, that will last, for a reasonable amount of money.

*
 
I agree..I have pretty extensive glassing experience so this is the easiest least costly platform for me to make.* I would have tried the plastic decking as a "lookalike" to the current platform but too springy.
 
Alternative Swim Platform Mterials

Boathommy wrote:
Yes, 2 layers of 3/4 ply.* Go to a real lumber yard and tell them you want at least 5 ply AC plywood, more plys are better.* fir would be best but if water gets in it really won't matter.* Glue together with thickened epoxy, west or System three would be my suggestion.* Do the final trimming to shape, rout the edges with at least a 3/8 radius bit* so the glass forms smoothly. . .

*

I like to lay out the future penetrations, like where the mounts will screw to the underside and rout out an area and fill it with an epoxy/glass mixture so there is no chance of water getting to the plywood core.

Yes, there is a little extra work to save quite a bit of money but if you think about this logically, you can build yourself a nice swimstep, that will last, for a reasonable amount of money.

*
*The only problem with this procedure is the use of AC plywood. ACX is made with an A grade face, a C grade (tight knot) back, and D grade core. D grade veneers can have voids as large as 2.5" or more. These voids are where the problems begin. With differing outside and inside temperatures, condensation will lead to rot from the inside. This is where marine ply pays for itself. There are no core voids, and the face and back are both A grade. The other advantage is that there are lengths available up to 16' if my memory serves me.

*The superior strength of the marine ply will allow reducing to a total 1" net thickeness. IMHO of course.


-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 08:47:55 PM
 
Scott:

When I owned a Seabird 37 (Sail) I added a swimgrid. It was a great addition. Many of the SB 37s added swimgrids, as it seemed the right thing to do. Many different appearances, Teak, Stainless box tubing, Plywood, Fibreglass. Mine was Fibreglass. I designed it and had it fabricated, as a class project when my brother was teaching plastics at a high school. It only cost me for materials, so was quite cheap. I put several grab holes along the stern of its perimeter, which were handy when swimming, and to which the dinghy painter could attach. The supports were Stainless flat bar with Stainless tubing on the long side of the triangle. Those likely cost as much as the FG. Long time ago so I don't recall the numbers.

Mark:

Your boat looks too good to go with anything less than what it should have had when it was new, TEAK! It won't matter in a couple of years that you had to pay an extra $500 for materials, just to get the best. Try wholesale hardwood places. You are going to be buying enough that they will talk to you.

When I redid my swimstep, I bought two teak boards. First I measured what I would need of 14 ft stock, that was the first board. then I measured what I would need in 2 or 3 ft stock, for between the openings, that was the second board, and because I didn't need a 14 ft length for this, it was less costly per bd ft. Mine was for a 13" extension of the old swimgrid, so was about $500 (at the time, 2007 IIRC).

The bronze supports also needed to be replaced, as one was cracked and all were designed for a 21" swimgrid. The new Stainless supports were about $1000.

I was able to re-use the old teak swimgrid, by flipping it over and cleaning it up, so with the new boards attached on the side against the transom, it all looked new. now that it has aged gracefully, all is silver coloured and no-one knows where the new ends and the old begins. I also had my swim ladder lengthened so it would flip down over the edge and flip up to rest against the transom, just like before.

Before and after pix.
 

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Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
 
Alternative Swim Platform Mterials

Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM


-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM
 
Must be nice to have an unlimited budget. Please keep us poor folks in your prayers.
 
I agree with the ACX version. Good ACX (not from home depot) is frequently superior to many of the "marine plywood stock" out there. Using it as a core for swim platforms is perfectly ok in my opinion. The total coverage with epoxy fg (WEST system, not necessarily west brand) is the key. No scarfing required, just staggered joints on the 2 layers.
A well executed project like this will probably outlast the owner.
 
Carey wrote:Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM

*Many expensive yachts have fiberglass platforms.* No one will see the core and your opinion on plywood is just that.* Many pro boatbuilders know when to use the good stuff and when you dont have too...

Calling someone's idea (not the final product)*the WalMart option could lead into name/boat calling and would be a shame for you. You have no idea how the final product will look, function or last.

Thanks sailor of fortune..another voice of reason.
 
psneeld wrote:Carey wrote:Boathommy wrote:
Carey,
I didn't get the impression that he was planning on willing his boat to the Smithsonian. . .? There is a tendency on these sites for all responses to tend to the ultimate solution to every problem. In a perfect world with unlimited funds we could all agree.

I have been a woodworker for 40 years. I would never suggest an option that I wouldn't do myself.

If you are knowledgeable about plywood, you know that your example was of the extreme negative end of the scale. I suggested he go to a "real" lumberyard and get at least 5 ply AC. saving, literally, hundreds of dollars. would your solution be better? Possibly.

Personally, I have never and never will be able to afford the "ULTIMATE" solution.

I stand by my post
You know what they say about opinions!!! Personally, I don't see plywood of any sort as a solution that I would use, but choosing ACX over marine plywood is not a good choice in many ways. You can do it the Walmart way or the right way. Your call.*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:17:25 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 24th of February 2012 09:18:28 PM

*Many expensive yachts have fiberglass platforms.* No one will see the core and your opinion on plywood is just that.* Many pro boatbuilders know when to use the good stuff and when you dont have too...

Calling someone's idea (not the final product)*the WalMart option could lead into name/boat calling and would be a shame for you. You have no idea how the final product will look, function or last.

Thanks sailor of fortune..another voice of reason.

*Golleeeee guys. I didn't mean to offend you, only to make the point that cutting corners is not always a good idea. In my mind, the little extra expense on the front end would be paid back with a better finished product and more longevity. Personally, I would hate to expend the energy to craft a nice looking product, only to have it fail a short distance down the road.

And given your sensitivity on this simple sharing of opinions, I recommend you definitely not go "off the deep end".
 
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