Nordhvn 51 stabilisers

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

nigel52

Newbie
Joined
Feb 6, 2024
Messages
4
My brother in law in Phuket is buying a Nordhvn 51 and needs advice on stabilisers. It looks like between CMC & Humphrey’s.




i am told that we should be able to install electric Stabilizers on board your N 51. Drew has provided two manufacturers that we could use, CMC and Humphree. See the attachment for the CMC’s and the link below for the Humphree. Also, per Drew’s comments below, he estimates the CMC up charge would be about $ 25,000 more and the Humphree could be and additional $ 10,000 to $ 15,000 above that. Please let us know if you have a preference as to which stabilizer manufacturer you would like to


Here is CMC. I don’t know what model Humphries we would use. I need to get that from the yard.



Humphree website: https://humphree.com/boat-fins-and-stabilizers/
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0704.jpg
    IMG_0704.jpg
    120.5 KB · Views: 32
I can't speak to either brand, though having gone through install of hydraulic fins, I am very much intrigued by electric actuators given their small size due to no hydraulic oil tank.

I looked at the Humphrees site. One caveat is the examples they emphasize are planing boats. I'd make sure they have good reference customers on displacement boats such as a Nordhavn. Nordhavn have installed a LOT of ABT systems, and ABT are legendary for their customer support. Something to think about as your BIL makes decisions on kit.

Peter
 
There must be a reason that the new 51 design has adopted Humphree electric stabilizers. Nordhavn - PAE- should explain their reasons to prospective new buyers after hundreds of Nordhavns have been built with hydraulic stabilizers.

Personally, I'd do a deep dive into the 24 volt design for redundancy between each JD 6068 and the genset.
 
There must be a reason that the new 51 design has adopted Humphree electric stabilizers. Nordhavn - PAE- should explain their reasons to prospective new buyers after hundreds of Nordhavns have been built with hydraulic stabilizers.

Personally, I'd do a deep dive into the 24 volt design for redundancy between each JD 6068 and the genset.

The explanation I heard was to try to simplify the systems on the smaller boats. Getting rid of hydraulics was one of them.
 
I'd think having redundant electrical supply to the stabilizers is easier than redundant hydraulic supply. And there should be less failure points with electric stabilizers as well.

I remember seeing something about ABT-TRAC coming out with electric fin actuators, so some of the big, long term players are taking that route too.
 
The explanation I heard was to try to simplify the systems on the smaller boats. Getting rid of hydraulics was one of them.

Makes sense, which ties in with Humphree's sales promos. Clean sheets have been adopted for the Turkish built Nordhavns, not a bad thing.
 
A few months ago I replaced a Naiad 302 system with Humphree 14 square foot fins on Starr, a Northern Marine 77. Then I took it from Seattle to Hawaii in November to give it a good test. The Humphrees proved reliable for that trip and worked better than the Naiads ever did. I was worried about the ability of the electric motors to stabilize a 100+ ton boat, but they never showed any signs of stress, even with a fishing net wrapped around one fin.

The real magic is at rest. No hydraulic whine, no generator noise, very little servo noise (although you do get the occasional clunk). The stabilizers run for many hours off the 24v house bank. It’s a total game changer for anchoring around Hawaii…quiet, effective, push button at-rest stabilization.

When we had to stop mid-Pacific and dive to clear a net, the Humphrees did an amazing job of making life aboard tolerable.

We like that the Humphree fins spin 180 degrees and pull back on the anchor, rather than swimming the boat forward, especially since Starr has a bulbous bow that could grind against the chain.

Because the fins rotate 360, they may extend beyond the hull side and below the keel. Care must be taken to ensure they don’t actuate in a situation where they’d contact something.

My only real concern is what happens when they break. The servo unit is a total mystery and the manual is pretty sparse on troubleshooting details. With a Naiad or ABT system, I knew where to start looking if there are problems; not so with Humphree.

We added a second 24v 175A alternator to ensure plenty of power for the stabilizers and everything else.

No hydraulic fluid is a HUGE plus in my opinion. Hydraulics need cooling, they leak, fluid has to be replaced, they’re relatively noisy. Just yesterday I blew the seals out of a Naiad cylinder on my own Nordhavn 50. What a mess!
 
Retriever
Great post. You touch on the controls, which some (expensive?) spare parts may help on.
 
I haven't looked at it much, but the power requirements are non-trivial. I saw AC electric fins that were in the 10kw, range, and DC fins in the 2-3kw range. There is no free lunch with stabilization. It takes energy to counter roll, and on first approximation, the same amount whether hydraulic, AC electric, or DC electric. If something is notably less power, then I think you can expect lower performance too. I'm not saying they aren't good or won't work, just noting that there is no magic involved either, and that any electric system may require more electric capacity than you would otherwise have.
 
I haven't looked at it much, but the power requirements are non-trivial. I saw AC electric fins that were in the 10kw, range, and DC fins in the 2-3kw range. There is no free lunch with stabilization. It takes energy to counter roll, and on first approximation, the same amount whether hydraulic, AC electric, or DC electric. If something is notably less power, then I think you can expect lower performance too. I'm not saying they aren't good or won't work, just noting that there is no magic involved either, and that any electric system may require more electric capacity than you would otherwise have.

You’re right. Each servo can draw ~100 amps at 24v. The load really jumps around and I think it’s tough on alternator belts. Overall the load doesn’t seem that bad (I’d like to quantify it over hours at anchor on of these days), but there are very big peak loads. Power draw is dramatically higher at rest than underway since the fins rotate through a much larger arc.

The Humphree fins rotate amazingly quickly…about 1 second to rotate 90 degrees.

I ran 4/0 cable from the battery bank to each servo, about 200 feet total. That was a project!
 
Look into the magnus stabilizers.
 
TT &Retriever
You are correct about the power, it has to come from somewhere. With a battery (house or start)is this sufficient buffer for the load the alternators would see?

Does Don’s NM have a hydraulic windlass and a hydraulic warping drum? Presumably the N51 does not thus an all electric mechanical system results.
 
Last edited:
A few months ago I replaced a Naiad 302 system with Humphree 14 square foot fins on Starr, a Northern Marine 77. Then I took it from Seattle to Hawaii in November to give it a good test. The Humphrees proved reliable for that trip and worked better than the Naiads ever did. I was worried about the ability of the electric motors to stabilize a 100+ ton boat, but they never showed any signs of stress, even with a fishing net wrapped around one fin.

The real magic is at rest. No hydraulic whine, no generator noise, very little servo noise (although you do get the occasional clunk). The stabilizers run for many hours off the 24v house bank. It’s a total game changer for anchoring around Hawaii…quiet, effective, push button at-rest stabilization.

When we had to stop mid-Pacific and dive to clear a net, the Humphrees did an amazing job of making life aboard tolerable.

We like that the Humphree fins spin 180 degrees and pull back on the anchor, rather than swimming the boat forward, especially since Starr has a bulbous bow that could grind against the chain.

Because the fins rotate 360, they may extend beyond the hull side and below the keel. Care must be taken to ensure they don’t actuate in a situation where they’d contact something.

My only real concern is what happens when they break. The servo unit is a total mystery and the manual is pretty sparse on troubleshooting details. With a Naiad or ABT system, I knew where to start looking if there are problems; not so with Humphree.

We added a second 24v 175A alternator to ensure plenty of power for the stabilizers and everything else.

No hydraulic fluid is a HUGE plus in my opinion. Hydraulics need cooling, they leak, fluid has to be replaced, they’re relatively noisy. Just yesterday I blew the seals out of a Naiad cylinder on my own Nordhavn 50. What a mess!


Their brochureware asserts pitch control. Can you confirm that versa the Naiads, and effectiveness?
 
I have the CMC Stab 25 and am absolutely happy with them, they work flawless and consume very little energy.

I installed them last year and my search for stabilizers took about a year. Spoke with almost every stabilizer provider and put all the pros and cons in an Excel sheet.

My demands were very specific, since we live basically 8 to 9 months per year on the boat.
I wanted the following:

1. Stabilization while underway
2. Stabilization on anchor and in port
3. Use as less energy as possible
4. I don't want to run an engine or generator to be able to power the stabilizers, in other words I need to be able to run them off the batteries
5. Easy maintenance

What did I find ?

1. All the hydraulic and pneumatic stabilizers need some type of equipment to be able ot operate. That is either a hydraulic pump or a compressor. Both use a lot of energy and/or require an engine or generator to run. And that took them out of the equasion

2. Humphree and other rotorsystems, plus most of the hydraulic and pneumatic systems cannot operate while on anchor. They need a speed of 3 to 4 kts in order to function. They don't have the response time of electric stabilizers. So that took them out of the equasion.
Since that time Humphree has also entered the electric fin market, but I don't have enough knowledge of the ins and outs of that system.

3. The only electric one left is the Gyro, made by multiple producers. The gyro does do a good job, both underway, on anchor and in port. However, it takes about 30 - 45 min to spool up, which means if you have it switched off and you encounter a sudden storm........too bad, there is nothing that can be done. The only solution then is to leave them on all the time, but now you bring in the biggest problem of a gyro and that is the electricity usage. These things guzzle electricity and that means you need a generator running all the time. If you have a generator running all the time then it is not a problem, but be aware they can take about 3 Kw per hour and that is a lot.
On top of that, the gyro's are kind of bulky, so you will need to have space for them. Also, at the time I was searching you needed to change the bearings every 3000 - 5000 hrs and that means taking the whole thing apart. We spend about 5600 hours each year on the water, so somewhere in the season (every year) we need to do a complete rebuild.
Based on the above the gyro's went off the list.

4. So I was left with electrical stabilizers. Nowadays there are a few more producers who have started making them, but when I contacted CMC they were basically the only ones and they were the ones who basically invented them.
Good part is that the fins are screwed onto the motor. if you hit anything underwater not a lot will happen. The fin may break off, but the motor will be unharmed. Within a couple of days you can have a new fin again.
Another good part is that the motor itself does not get in contact with water at all, is physically impossible.
But best of all is that the actuators, the motors, fit in extremely small spaces. They are about 15 cm high and that is it. There is an electricity cable connected to it and that leads to a control box in the ER. There you will find the fuses, print plates etc. In the pilot house you will then have a small control box that powers the screen and that is it.
I have the main control panel in the pilothouse and a smaller, waterproof, panel on the flybridge.

In the end I installed one size larger than was required for my boat and that was based on a tip I got from someone who has Naiads and does about the same speed as I do. Our speed is about 5.5 - 7 kts, while the size of the stabilizers is calculated at 10 kts. A slower speed means less efficiency, so they sized up and I basically followed their advise.
CMC told me that, since the stabilizers are electric, it does not really make a difference. Electric fins can vary the speed and force at which they react, thereby making up for smaller fin size. I could have used the Stab 20, saved myself 14.000 euro, they would have worked a bit more, which means a slightly higher electricity usage. But I did not want to gamble, so decided to take the one size larger.

Question of course is: 'how much electricity do they really use ?'

Mine are officially rated for 2 Kw per fin, which sounds like a lot of electricity (that is 220 V, not 12 of 24 V).
In reality however I normally see between 200 and 300 W for the 2 of them combined and that is only when they are operating (on anchor). That is about 10 - 15 Amps at 24 V per hour, which is next to nothing. I have 1400 Ah of Lithium onboard, which means I can run them all through the night without a problem.
Of course, if you get into a sudden storm, they will increase their usage, but I have seldom seen over 500 - 600 W (for the both of them combined, at 220 V).
Underway the batteries get charged anyway, so I basically don't care how much they use. Only once, when we were caught in a storm and were beam on, I saw 1 Kw (total for the both of them, at 220 V).
So although they can draw 2 Kw at 220 V, I have absolutely never ever seen that. In other words, this system uses very little energy.

The system has a very clever way to save energy. You can reduce the sensitivity of the whole system, which means that it won't react to small disturbances. In other words if it is OK to move a little bit you set the sensitivity to minimum and you will see the electricity usage drop drastically. We normally put the system on minimum sensitivity while on anchor in a calm bay or in port. System will still react to large disturbances, but small disturbances will result in a slower reaction.

Another good part about CMC are the added features, which we use on a daily basis. You can opt for some extra software and that will cost you some money, but absolutely worth it.
The standard modes are Navigation and Anchor, which in itself are fine. In both modes you can set the sensitivity from minimum to maximum by pressing the screen.

The extra modes are
- Dock
- Flip
- Slow speed (MSS)
- Center

The dock mode is what you use in port or in a marina. It limits the movement of the fins, so they cannot get outside the hull range, which means even when you are tied to the dock you can still have the stabilizers on. We have been in ports where ferries and other boats pass by at high speed. The whole port was rocking and rolling, we were lying steady as a rock

Flip mode is what you can (if you want) use while on anchor and basically it turns the fins 180 degrees. As a result the boat will keep tension on the chain and you won't drift over your anchor, reducing the risk of pulling your own anchor out of the ground. This mode I use when there is no wind, but when there is wind I just keep them in the normal anchor mode, which actually reduces the tension that the wind puts on the chain.

MSS mode is something you use while you are maneuvering at low speed. Normally the system will put the fins in center position when the speed drops below 4 kts. It assumes you are in close proximity to the shore, so just to make sure you don't forget to switch them off, the system will center them for you.
However, it can be bad weather or rough in the port / marina or anchorage, so that you do want stabilization in order to keep the crew safe while they work the lines or fenders. Then you select MSS and the fins will work like they do in Dock mode, so limited movement of the fins.

All these options basically enable you to operate the fins under all conditions and that makes them ideal. In fact, I don't understand why anyone would want to have any other system.
E.g. why would you want to go hydraulic when you then have a less responsive system and have all the risks of leakages, plus problems with pumps ? I can only understand it if you have a 100 mtr boat, then you will need hydraulic, otherwise the electric motors will become massive.


Lastly, installation of the system takes about 20 days in total (if you have an existing boat). If the boat is still under construction it is of course much easier.

It was a long story, but this is in detail what CMC is all about and to be honest I think that for the size of boats most of us have, electric fins are the way to go.
No need for hydraulics, pneumatics or electricity guzzling systems. They take up almost no space and use very little energy.
If you happen to have solar panels and a large battery bank (like I do) you can run them all day long without even thinking about them. They will keep doing their job.
 
Last edited:
Thank you Mombo42 for that very informative post!
 
Their brochureware asserts pitch control. Can you confirm that versa the Naiads, and effectiveness?

The control panel allows for adjusting sensitivity of pitch control, but I don’t think it works with just fins. Maybe if you had a larger install with 4 fins, but my sense is the pitch control is geared towards fast boats that are using the fins and interceptors together and the interceptors are doing the pitch control.
 
The explanation I heard was to try to simplify the systems on the smaller boats. Getting rid of hydraulics was one of them.

I must admit adding electrical redundancy should be easier than hydraulic redundancy. I know when I helped my brother in law (BIL) take delivery of his Halberg Rassy 55 in 2005 our first trip offshore and some of the hydraulics failed on the mast. Luckily I could jury rig other alternatives. Even if the genset failed at least the engine alternator should drive the electric stabilisers.
 
My brother in law in Phuket is buying a Nordhvn 51 and needs advice on stabilisers. It looks like between CMC & Humphrey’s.




i am told that we should be able to install electric Stabilizers on board your N 51. Drew has provided two manufacturers that we could use, CMC and Humphree. See the attachment for the CMC’s and the link below for the Humphree. Also, per Drew’s comments below, he estimates the CMC up charge would be about $ 25,000 more and the Humphree could be and additional $ 10,000 to $ 15,000 above that. Please let us know if you have a preference as to which stabilizer manufacturer you would like to


Here is CMC. I don’t know what model Humphries we would use. I need to get that from the yard.



Humphree website: Boat fins and stabilizers
Nigel, if you have an AC genset onboard, opt for CMC, which is equipped with AC servo motors and drives. They're more robust, durable, and quieter than the DC technology. You'll also benefit from being able to use significantly smaller power cables! There's no need for cooling, and they're more compact inside the hull for the same fin size. Given their quick movement at anchor, their smallest size should suffice for you. By the way, I believe they have at least two service dealers with experience in Phuket. Please keep me updated on what you decide, and enjoy your cruising, regardless.
 
We have been using the Magnus Master electric stabilizers for quite some time from DMS Holland. The no. 1 in stabilisation for yachts DMS has a network of installers around the country. They have been installed on some Nordhavns.
We have vast experience with other systems and find that they work much better than active fins on trawlers. The electric draw is minimal and they retract when not in use.
 
I know DMS well and spoke with Patrick and his guys at length when I was researching stabilizers. At that moment the Magnus Master was only for stabilization while underway. So that was the reason I did not choose them.
Now they do have the Magnus Master where the arm moves as well, like a fin, thereby making the on anchor stabilization possible. I don't know if the system performs well, I have no idea, so that is something for the OP to check.
I also don't know how much electricity the moveable Magnus Master uses when it is in operation. Also that is something for the OP to find out.
What I do know is that I can run my CMC stabilizers off my solar panels during the day and off the batteries at night. That was important for me, since I did not want to have the generator running all the time.
If the Magnus Master can also do the same then I guess it comes down to the question: 'with which company do you have the best communication and do you feel the best'. I can only say that Patrick and his company (DMS) have been very professional, welcoming and helpful. I would not have a problem working with them.
The same I had with CMC and so far the system functions flawless.
In other words, OP has to do his research and decide what is important for him/ her.
 
First of all thank you all for your comprehensive replies. A huge cross section of views and experiences. I’m sure you inow the first Nordhavn 51 has recently been launched and the owner a New Zealander is documenting it on YouTube. I’m very much the intermediary as it is my brother in law who is due to take delivery of hull number 3 early next year.
 
I have seen the videos of the first 51' and kind of funny, they are now in Bodrum and we are right next door in Kos. He has hydraulic stabilizers though.
If your brother wants to pass by in Greece to see our CMC stabilizers in real time he is welcome. Can also visit our instagram, I have a video there of the stabilizers when they are working in port. Had to create some instability by hand, since it was flat calm that day, but you can get the idea. mv.endless.summer on Instagram.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom