Charts

[gonesailing13]

Been using the same Navionics charts on my boat for about 6-7 years now. Was wondering if would be worth the money to buy new ones. Not sure what has changed on them but not sure. I know some charts can be updated from a computer but I only work off an IPad so not an option. Should I spend the money or not, that’s the question.

 

[Iggy]

I would up date them. I receive the USCG Update to Mariners every month. I never counted them but there are at lest 2 to 3 dozen updates every month. Plus storms can change the depth in some areas.

I update mine every 2 years, but thats me. I have friends that do it less often too.

 

[ScottC]

I would definitely update the chart(s) for the area(s) you'rr currently cruising in. 6-7 years is getting pretty long-in-the-tooth. I update the charts for my current cruising area 2-3 times per year.

 

[2savage]

Well, the land hasn't moved and the rocks are still in the same place. You should be OK until that happens.

 

[ScottC]

Well, the land hasn't moved and the rocks are still in the same place. You should be OK until that happens.

Buoys? Lights? Silt/Sand? Wrecks???

 

[Al]

Whoops!!! I read the title "Charts" and immediately thought 'Paper'
My bad, too damn old

 

[Comodave]

I also would update them. That is a long time and things do change.

 

[sunchaser]

I have 10 year old Navionics charts on an IPad. I've never seen nor looked in great detail for changed locations of navigational markers or bottom contours.

But, could someone who has seen some material changes in PNW navigation aids please chime in. I fully appreciate NOAA ongoing underwater mapping, but I'm curious as to material changes as it would apply to "planning" we do on our IPad.

 

[2savage]

Buoys? Lights? Silt/Sand? Wrecks???

Yes, I agree. I guess being somewhat flippant is my nature. That said, changes are in general few. For Silt/Sand, is NOAA really up to date here?

 

[koliver]

Yes, I agree. I guess being somewhat flippant is my nature. That said, changes are in general few. For Silt/Sand, is NOAA really up to date here?

Here in SW BC, charts need updates for changes in Navigation aids, but not for rocks, land etc. Usually those Nav Aid changes are additions, not removals.
Wrecks may result in an update, but by the time they get a round tuit, the wrecks should have been removed, so those are not really an issue. Our depths here are deep enough that there are few places where silting occurs that are not already obviously places to avoid.

I had a subscription to the "Notices to Mariners" for a few years, but never saw anything that made me want to sustain that subscription.

Tom:
I have some charts aboard that bear a 70s date stamp. They are still good. The chart CD that I bought in approximately 1990 is still good, and since my program allows me to mark things on it that are points of interest, or photos, or inaccuracies, it has updates of that nature. I have pulled a guy off of rocks that didn't appear on much newer charts (near Gabriola Pass) so that isn't an update issue, but a survey issue. That occurred only 4 or 5 years ago.
A much bigger issue than chart age is failure to zoom in on vector charts. My old program used my old raster charts, so I don't have that issue.

 

[mvweebles]

How much money are we talking here? $50 for a tablet? Is it worth it to not update them after 5-6 years??? I guess it depends on where you boat, and your familiarity with the changes, frequency of transit, etc.

Two pictures attached of two areas I boat in that have had significant changes

1. Ensenada. Note the extended breakwater a few years ago. Wouldn't that be nice to know?

2. Inlet from Gulf of Mexico near Ft Desoto Park in Pinellas County, FL, near St Pete. Granted these are 20-yeas of pictures, but still, shows a LOT of movement. In 2010, approach is clearly from the east. By 2017, that channel is marginal and a channel from the north has appeared (note the boat approaching from north in 2021 picture).

If you boat in the same places all the time, old charts might be fine. But maybe not. I'm the type who sorta hates surprises.....

Peter

 

[PMF1984]

Is this a serious question? The Navionics app yearly subscription is $22. That includes the sonar chart function, which in a constant state of update. Even with a limited cruising area, there will be new buoys, changes that you will want to keep track of. (I keep track of all the chart changes between Jacksonville and Buzzards Bay by pushing the “update now” button.)

The Active Captain crowd source hazards are also a feature that some find handy.

 

[SteveK]

Keith.
I boat in the same area as you and agree with your post. Local knowledge.
I had my sailboat 5 foot keel moored in Ladner and came out and back through canoe pass. This channel through the mud flats has nav pilings installed which were not updated since the 80's. No longer considered a nav channel but the dolphins are still there for the locals to use as reference points for the ever moving sand bars.
Each spring we would go out in a dingy at low tide and see where the channel was.

 

[SteveK]

Peter.
Your pictures of the changes are real. However none of them are serious changes. I mean the harbour entrance change, they did move the light to the new point? Of course if you are following auto pilot to the old location, that would be a bother.
I rely on my eyes in confined spaces.

However all these posts are valid for the poster comfort using electronic navigation.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter.
Your pictures of the changes are real. However none of them are serious changes. I mean the harbour entrance change, they did move the light to the new point? Of course if you are following auto pilot to the old location, that would be a bother.
I rely on my eyes in confined spaces.

However all these posts are valid for the poster comfort using electronic navigation.

I can tell you that a breakwater that is over a quarter mile longer than shown on a chart is damn confusing. Even in the daytime. But especially in low light conditions. I entered into Ensenada on a friend's boat last November. For whatever reason, his new CMAP charts did not show the breakwater

As to the Florida example, one picture shows a boat going through a channel from the north. In other pictures a few years apart,, that doesn't exist. Mind you the OP states his charts are 5-6 years out of date.

I'm sorry, but if a missing breakwater doesn't qualify for a reason to update charts, not sure what does. Mind you, these were two examples I have of first hand information.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Peter, I use paper and electronic charts as a reference source for navigation. For you and others that use them exclusively and depend on their accuracy then updates are critical.

When I look at the breakwater live or on chart, I know to go around the end of it. Whether it was just extended 1/4 mile makes no difference to that decision.

Getting updates is a personal choice based on your own navigation requirements.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, I use paper and electronic charts as a reference source for navigation. For you and others that use them exclusively and depend on their accuracy then updates are critical.

When I look at the breakwater live or on chart, I know to go around the end of it. Whether it was just extended 1/4 mile makes no difference to that decision.

Getting updates is a personal choice based on your own navigation requirements.

Of course they are a reference point. But a Harbor chart is supposed to be accurate. At night, the light on the end of a quarter mile breakwater that isn't where it's supposed to be could easily be confused with background city lights. Trying to reconcile mis-placed information via radar would be a head-scratcher.

I'm guessing most of your boating is in local areas you're quite comfortable in. To give harbor charts a pass on accuracy is an interesting approach.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

Of course they are a reference point. But a Harbor chart is supposed to be accurate. At night, the light on the end of a quarter mile breakwater that isn't where it's supposed to be could easily be confused with background city lights. Trying to reconcile mis-placed information via radar would be a head-scratcher.

I'm guessing most of your boating is in local areas you're quite comfortable in. To give harbor charts a pass on accuracy is an interesting approach.

Peter

Sadly you are guessing and are taking it too personal that I do not just agree with you.
You probably missed my stint with SAR going out at night, in the dark to find people that could not make it home in the daytime. Going places where I do not go in the daytime and may not have been back to more than once.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
BTW, I just came back from 12 days on the water on a chartered boat in an area I have never visited before.

 

[mvweebles]

There is one thing worse than having inadequate information, and that's thinking you have accurate information when you don't. The OP's question was in essence "are my 5-6 year old charts good enough, or should I cough-up $25 to upgrade?" I gave two personal experiences where dated charts would show water when there was not water. That's a problem.

Given your SAR experience (which I did indeed miss), I would think the answer to this would be a no-brainer - spend the $25 and have the best navigation tools you can.

I'm just surprised. And when it comes to safety issues, I tend to go overboard.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

I never said OP should not update. I commented on your pictures, if that is the only changes then it is a personal choice and not a no brainer.

 

[Bob Jack]

I am having trouble finding new Canadian charts of the BC coast. Has anybody found up dated PAPER charts of the B.C. COAST

 

[SteveK]

I am having trouble finding new Canadian charts of the BC coast. Has anybody found up dated PAPER charts of the B.C. COAST

I recall they stopped making paper charts a few years ago. Any you find now will be dated accordingly. Gone digital.

 

[Bob Jack]

Thanks SteveK

 

[Portage_Bay]

I am having trouble finding new Canadian charts of the BC coast. Has anybody found up dated PAPER charts of the B.C. COAST

This offical web site indicates paper charts are still available
https://charts.gc.ca/charts-cartes/digital-electronique/index-eng.html
Looking at the edition date and the last notice to mariner date makes me wonder how up to date they are

 

[Fish53]

Is this a serious question? The Navionics app yearly subscription is $22. That includes the sonar chart function, which in a constant state of update. Even with a limited cruising area, there will be new buoys, changes that you will want to keep track of. (I keep track of all the chart changes between Jacksonville and Buzzards Bay by pushing the “update now” button.)

The Active Captain crowd source hazards are also a feature that some find handy.

I second this and it's well said, thank you.

 

[Fish53]

I recall they stopped making paper charts a few years ago. Any you find now will be dated accordingly. Gone digital.

You can have them printed quite easily.

 

[AKDoug]

I update every year, the tides and currents are important to me up here so I update before every boating season. Also the input from boaters into their data base adds to the accuracy of the charts, it's been WAY too long since we charted anything but the main shipping channels in Alaska. Most charts are pre 1964 (earthquake) and were done wit Loran instead of GPS...