Fuel line/manifold question

[Scottwb96]

Good morning all!
I have an 89' Camargue. I am updating/adding a few things and while down in the engine room, started to really look at the sight gauge and fuel lines/valves and how they are all interconnected...

I am getting ready to add the Maretron Fuel Flow Sensors/Monitors as well as some tank sensors...

The questions I have:
1. The sight gauge manifold, should the level in that go up/down based on opening those handles? Mine does not "appear" to move one direction or the other, just seems to show "full" all the time...
2. Is that manifold (shiny silver tube) used more for equalizing the tanks?
3. Return lines, aren't they actually supposed to go to the tank, not just back into the tank main supply line?
4. Side question, I also have a 100 gallon "day tank". Where the HECK is that plumbed into/out of??? Fill cap is out in the cockpit (past the aft cabin). Also where the gen is located. But I don't see where either of those are connected either...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Good morning all!
I have an 89' Camargue. I am updating/adding a few things and while down in the engine room, started to really look at the sight gauge and fuel lines/valves and how they are all interconnected...

I am getting ready to add the Maretron Fuel Flow Sensors/Monitors as well as some tank sensors...

The questions I have:
1. The sight gauge manifold, should the level in that go up/down based on opening those handles? Mine does not "appear" to move one direction or the other, just seems to show "full" all the time...
2. Is that manifold (shiny silver tube) used more for equalizing the tanks?
3. Return lines, aren't they actually supposed to go to the tank, not just back into the tank main supply line?
4. Side question, I also have a 100 gallon "day tank". Where the HECK is that plumbed into/out of??? Fill cap is out in the cockpit (past the aft cabin). Also where the gen is located. But I don't see where either of those are connected either...

Hi Scott,

We do have the same boat and fuel system. This system drove me crazy when I first bought ASD. So let's see if we can break it down for you. The fuel system in our boats are designed by CAT for our boat. Keep this in mind.

1. There is no cross-over. The main tanks only have one valve and that is a shut off valve at the tank. Both main tanks (250 gal each) feed both engines. evenly some what. There may be a few gallons different. i.e. If you are running only one engine it is fed by both tanks.

2. Lets get the return line discussed. Simple there are none back to the main tanks. The so-called return lines actually return back to the manifold and may reverse flow back to the tanks? (Don't know about this particular idea).

3. On the sight gage open both top and bottom valves. Then you will need a bright flash light to see the level. Keep in mind this is the level of "both" main tanks.

4. The manifold is designed to use fuel off of both tanks along with return fuel. The big black hose on top is a vent line and joins the Port tank vent behind the door aft port access door.

5. Day talks. You don't have day tanks. You have two 50 gallon tanks located in the cockpit. I call these my "reserve" tanks. One shut off valve from each tank. Leave these tanks in the off position as they sit a little lower than the main tanks. If you use these tanks, turn off your main tanks. The sight gage DOES NOT WORK for the saddle tanks. I had to make 2 dip sticks to measure the fuel in each tank.

6. Other suggestion. The generator. The return line for the generator is feed back to the main manifold which also sits a little higher than the Genny. So if you shutoff the generator fuel filter have everything ready to go as you will get a little fuel in the pan. Have a few absorbent rags available. NOTE: If you disconnect the return line, have a cap ready to plug the line as the return fuel will start dumbing in your cockpit bilge. I replaced the injectors and I had put the return line in a 5-gallon bucket. Next thing I know I have fuel pouring over the bucket. BIG MESS, especially if you don't get to the bilge pump switch in time......

7. My fuel tanks did not have inspection ports, so I have some installed and the tanks cleaned. That was around 5 boat dollars, but worth every penny.

Hope this helps. I still have unanswered questions, but this is the way our fuel systems are designed . Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Scottwb96]

THANK YOU!!!! Ok, now I don't feel so stupid or crazy as to why it wasn't making a lot of sense to me!!!
Now I am curious to find the saddle tanks. Since I really dont see where or how those are plumbed to anything. Just the fill cap up by the water (hate that those are right next to each other)...
Thanks for the suggestions! I was wondering about the tanks, I'll have to look into inspections ports. Probably be a good time to have the sensors also installed for the tanks.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

OK I am assuming you have the Yacht Fisher model (Cockpit). If yours are like mine, we have Aluminum fuel tanks. The aft (Saddle) tanks are in cased in fiberglass. So below is a pic of the port and stbd tanks. On top are access hatches that my fuel guy installed. You should also have a placard on the side describing the tank.

 

[Scottwb96]

Interesting... I don't have either of those tanks on mine... Now I am REALLY wondering where that fill cap goes to!!!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Your probably do not have the access hatch. All you would be able to see is the shutoff valve near the bottom.

 

[Scottwb96]

Both sides of my cockpit storage are open and empty. Aside from the gen in the middle (like yours) and then my battery box for the gen/stern thruster. I don't have those large tanks glassed in like you do...

 

[rgano]

I have seen similar fuel supply manifolds in Jeffersons where the fuel supply for the two mains is joined, and I think it is about the worst fuel supply design I ever saw. Clearly not designed by anybody who ever had an engine quit or an air ingestion problem in the fuel supply. If I owned your boats, I would remove that manifold and just connect the p/s fuel supplies to the p/s Racors. Then I would place a valved cross connect before and after the Racors as I did in my GB42. NOW you have both increased flexibility and reliability. The returns should go to the tanks, again with valving to select which way it goes.

 

[Xsbank]

Rich has nailed it. Multiple ways a leak or failure will disable the boat. Lose the manifold or get another for the other engine. Get the genset out of that circuit too.

There's quite a lot of information on fuel system designs on here if you search.

Have fun!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Both sides of my cockpit storage are open and empty. Aside from the gen in the middle (like yours) and then my battery box for the gen/stern thruster. I don't have those large tanks glassed in like you do...

So I am assuming you hold 600 gallons of fuel?

Looking at your picture, Genny on right side. Then an overflow bottle? Then to the left looks like the corner of a fiberglass box?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have seen similar fuel supply manifolds in Jeffersons where the fuel supply for the two mains is joined, and I think it is about the worst fuel supply design I ever saw. Clearly not designed by anybody who ever had an engine quit or an air ingestion problem in the fuel supply. If I owned your boats, I would remove that manifold and just connect the p/s fuel supplies to the p/s Racors. Then I would place a valved cross connect before and after the Racors as I did in my GB42. NOW you have both increased flexibility and reliability. The returns should go to the tanks, again with valving to select which way it goes.

Rich has nailed it. Multiple ways a leak or failure will disable the boat. Lose the manifold or get another for the other engine. Get the genset out of that circuit too.

There's quite a lot of information on fuel system designs on here if you search.

Have fun!

Well no I would not re-engineer a system that CAT designed. It works great and I have not had any issues with it, so why fix something that ain't broke?

 

[Scottwb96]

ASD-

I have no tanks under the cockpit access panels. I have a WB Gen, battery box (what you see in pic) and the muffler... That's it... The fuel fill goes "somewhere" under the floorboards/wall to SOME location... Going to take an even closer look tomorrow and see if I can trace it a bit more...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

ASD-

I have no tanks under the cockpit access panels. I have a WB Gen, battery box (what you see in pic) and the muffler... That's it... The fuel fill goes "somewhere" under the floorboards/wall to SOME location... Going to take an even closer look tomorrow and see if I can trace it a bit more...

So that maybe a battery box with a red cable? Well if you hold 600 gallons the extra tanks have to be somewhere. Hunt and find....

 

[Scottwb96]

ASD-

Question(s) for you. Do you happen to know the size/type of fitting for the return lines? Need the one on starboard going into the top of the manifold. As well as the one for the T-connector. Excluding the gen return. I assume that's the same as the one going into the manifold but wanted to check.

Do you happen to also know the size/types for supply/return ON the engines? Having hoses with crimped on fittings made and I can't seem to find that info anywhere...

 

[rgano]

Well no I would not re-engineer a system that CAT designed. It works great and I have not had any issues with it, so why fix something that ain't broke?

I am sure it does work great, until it doesn't. Regardless of who designed it, you have a system with common point vulnerabilities as I mentioned. I only offered a method to remove those vulnerabilities. It is your risk to take that may well some day leave you stranded with NO propulsion. I have sad experience with your type system.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

When you are in the Cockpit, are there deck points to fuel?

 

[Scottwb96]

Yes, I have a water and fuel fill cap on the floor of the cockpit. When I looked again under there, I swear it just goes "into the wall"... Going to look again today when I have more light and patience...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Yes, I have a water and fuel fill cap on the floor of the cockpit. When I looked again under there, I swear it just goes "into the wall"... Going to look again today when I have more light and patience...

Let's see if this helps. Please understand I am not a computer geek, so the pic might look strange. Hope you can read it. This pic is me standing on the latter looking down at the cockpit.

 

[Scottwb96]

On mine, the water is about where the port fuel cap is. I dont have a fuel cap on port side. I do have a fuel cap on starboard.

Down in the storage, I have neither of those fuel tanks. Everything else for the most part is the same...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

On mine, the water is about where the port fuel cap is. I dont have a fuel cap on port side. I do have a fuel cap on starboard.

Down in the storage, I have neither of those fuel tanks. Everything else for the most part is the same...

Well dang. So only 1 fuel fill in the Cockpit? Now I want to come look!!! It would appear Camargue changes a few things.

Scott give me a call if you like. If you get voice mail, leave me a message. Or PM me and I will call you.

 

[Scottwb96]

HAHAHA!!! Success!!! I found out where the "day tank" is. I have NO IDEA how I missed it. But it's under the master stateroom bed. 2 side-by-side water tanks and then this, aft of them. I guess I never pulled off that last slat on the bed to see all the way up there...
Now, I am wondering about how it's actually used and plumbed in. Looks to be a ball-valve on the wall where the gen is. But then the ~5/8" copper fuel lines do a U-turn and go back in and under the floor boards. Going to trace them later today after I get back from the hydraulic shop with the new fuel lines...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Wow. Glad you found it! You have a 100 gallon tank versus mine which is two 50 gallon tanks, hence only one tank fill. Under my bed is 210 gallons of water.

Looks like you got some water/moister intrusion on your cooper lines. I would also change out your tank fill hose as it is toast and will start leaking fuel.

Great Good luck!!

 

[Scottwb96]

Not sure if/when the last time that day tank was ever used. PO, told me he never used it and they had the boat for about 10 years prior to me...
Guessing a VERY thorough cleaning and an inspection plate would need to be done/added...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Not sure if/when the last time that day tank was ever used. PO, told me he never used it and they had the boat for about 10 years prior to me...
Guessing a VERY thorough cleaning and an inspection plate would need to be done/added...

Same here. 1st and 2nd owners (I am the 3rd) said they didn't use them they both said they were empty.

However the guy that did clean my tanks and install inspection holes called me as he drilled his first hole and told me there was 25 year old fuel in them. Disposal was a PIA as we were in Kookafornia.

I use the tanks to run the genny in the winter. That way they always have fresh fuel in the spring. Plus a 100 gallon reserve is nice to have.

 

[Kuhlkent]

Thanks guys. This was helpful. I have a Camargue 48 down in SF Bay Area. I am a true novice and looking at the fuel lines in the engine room just about exploded my mind. Is the aft fuel tank dedicated to the Genset? I have a TankTender but it is hard to translate. What did you make your dip sticks out of? Those tank entries are really twisty. Also, random question, Ever since we started looking at the boat I noticed it had a list to port. Measured it at anchor the other day and it is just under 4" in difference between port and starboard waterline. For a heavy boat it is hard to imagine that this is weight distribution of stuff on board. She has no leaks that anyone has found and my bilges are all dry. Doesn't get worse...or better. Any thoughts?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thanks guys. This was helpful. I have a Camargue 48 down in SF Bay Area. I am a true novice and looking at the fuel lines in the engine room just about exploded my mind. Is the aft fuel tank dedicated to the Genset? I have a TankTender but it is hard to translate. What did you make your dip sticks out of? Those tank entries are really twisty. Also, random question, Ever since we started looking at the boat I noticed it had a list to port. Measured it at anchor the other day and it is just under 4" in difference between port and starboard waterline. For a heavy boat it is hard to imagine that this is weight distribution of stuff on board. She has no leaks that anyone has found and my bilges are all dry. Doesn't get worse...or better. Any thoughts?

I have an 88 Camarge 48. ASD is a wonderful boat.

My Genny runs from the main tanks. You can shut off the mains, open the one or two valves for the aux tank(s).

We bought ASD in Okley CA, previous name "Interlude"

 

[rgano]

Kulhkent, the first thing I would do would be to make sure all fuel and water tanks are equal in level and the waste tank is empty. Crossover lines left open can be the culprits.
Then go looking for the cause of the list, if there is indeed any left.