Now What?

[ctjstr]

This is nothing serious, but we ran into a situation today that has me wondering. We were coming back from Poulsbo to our boathouse at Breakwater, in Tacoma. If any of you were in the area it was a strange weather day. Beautiful sunny blue sky when we left this morning. Then we hit complete white out fog, near Blake Island. Awful stuff, visibility less than 100' at times (most of the time) Slowed way down and by compass, radar, auto pilot and chart plotter made our way down Colvos passage towards home.

As we dropped south of Vashon island and started across the bay, our radar picked up several smaller boats (plus one big ferry). One in particular caught my attention as it was almost directly in front of us and moving very slow. As we got closer, I kept telling Sara to keep her eyes open as we had to be right on top of it. By then we were creeping along idle speed maybe.

All of a sudden there was this boat. We were crossing in front of it and cleared it by MAYBE two boat lenths. Not as bad as it sounds as we were both going dead slow. So we passed and were docked within 20 minutes.

But here's the point. As we passed this boat, I noticed it was a 30+ foot alder wooden boat, maybe a chris or owens. Had no radar visible, a fact driven home by the fact that they had Ms or Mrs standing on the bow pulpit directing traffic. She waved at me as we went by. I was stunned to say the least.

Everything was fine, and I have to assume those folks just got caught in the freaky sun/cloud/smoke/fog, but it got me thinking: What would you do if caught in an obviously dangerous situation like that? Turn and head for home, try and head for what you hope is the quickest clear weather, soldier on, just stop and hope everyone misses you? With no radar, I honestly don't know for sure. I do know for sure Sara would NOT be out on the bow pulpit, but that's about all I'm sure of. I've lost my radar coming home from the san juans and it was absolutely freaky, could have easily turned myself in a circle. We had the good fortune of being with friends and just followed them. But as any experienced boater knows, there are circumstances that can arise suddenly and be a bit..unnerving.

Just curious what others think?

 

[Comodave]

Actually being out on the bow will probably give the best chance of spotting other traffic since you will be able to hear better outside and away from the engines. Since you were sounding the proper signals, weren’t you, she would be able to hear you the best out there. Depending on the sea state, I might put my wife out there since I am somewhat hearing challenged...

 

[psneeld]

Operated for much of my life without RADAR in either boats (both mine and one workboat) or USCG helos.

Nowadays, I try not to run in fog, but it really doesn't deter me depending what I am doing.

My guess is others with experience don't let it deter them either.

With chartplotters these days, nav is easier, so collision avoidance is a concern but some fear collision more than others.

My main concern is the guys zipping around in outboards at 20 knots, no RADAR and no sound signals. They can't hear you and you can't hear them.

 

[Russell Clifton]

In order to stay out of the boat traffic we often cross Roserio Straight by going from Peavine Pass over to the north end of Cypress Island. Earlier this season we were crossing in the fog with about 200 feet of visibility (7 knots) when another boat popped up several miles away on my port side. I knew I would have the right a way, but watched him closely as it looked like he was traveling fairly fast. It looked like we were going to cross fairly close and he wasn't changing course so I reduced speed to idle and finally into neutral. When he finally appeared out of the fog I could see his open array radar was not rotating. He did not even have his radar on! About 34 feet long cruising at 15 knots.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So back to the OP post.

Could it be that the radar was absorbed by the wooden boat, thus not showing up on radar? Too bad you two could not have talked for a few and suggested installing a radar ball.

 

[GFC]

A wood hull boat will not give much of a radar return signal but metal objects in and on the boat will. Things such as engines, transmissions, bow rails, etc. will give a radar return but again, it's not going to be a strong signal.

I've lost my radar coming home from the san juans and it was absolutely freaky, could have easily turned myself in a circle.

Do you not have a chart plotter on board?

 

[Wayfarer]

I haven't had radar for the last year of cruising, and I've sorely missed it on about a dozen occasions. I won't generally head out into poor visibility, but I've been socked in many times now. It's deeply uncomfortable. I always use sound signals, slow down, and listen carefully, but it's still not ideal.

I've got a new Garmin 1242xsv with HD radar sitting in a box in my marina office waiting patiently for me to get home.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Perfect example of why rule 35 is as relevant now as it’s ever been. Many times in restricted visibility I seemed to be the only smaller vessel sounding off, knowing full well that not everyone has radar and AIS. Was anyone listening? is a fair question though

 

[dhays]

Tony,

I had a similar experience today. Boat needs fuel and we were going to run from Gig Harbor to the Tacoma Fuel Dock and fill up. We knew there was fog but all week it has been clearing shortly after noon. We waited until about 1:00 and left for the boat. Crossing the Narrows Bridge there was some fog South, but the Narrows was clear and so was Gig Harbor.

We left the harbor and almost immediately ran into really thick fog. Visibility was under 100 Meters. I figured it would clear up so we continued using chart plotter, compass and radar. Came within a 1/4 mile of a Tug and tow and could hear his horn but never saw him. Finally decided that it wasn’t going to clear so we turned around almost abeam to the TYC clubhouse (not that we could see it of course).

We had two close encounters. One was as we were going back and there was a radar target on a reciprocal course. We altered course twice trying to get out of their way. Each time they turned again towards us. We were doing 7 knots, they were doing 15 knots. Turned out to be the largest Ranger Tug running full out throwing a huge wake. I did not see any radar on that boat. We passed within two boat lengths.

Second was a small open ski boat that came up from behind at 20 knots. They were so low that I didn’t see the target until they were an 1/8 mile behind me. They went around me still at speed. No radar of course.

Lots of traffic out there and the current was really ripping and even though my radar was full of active targets, those two boats were the only two that I actually saw.

Going to try to get fuel tomorrow or Sunday weather permitting.

 

[markpierce]

What? No horns??

 

[Comodave]

We also have a Lundberg lens type of radar reflector mounted on the underside of our radar arch. Having never seen our boat on radar I can’t confirm how well it works. The Lundberg lens type came out best in the, now defunct, Powerboat Reports when they did radar reflector testing. I hope it helps us show up on others radars. We also have a dedicated hailer with the different sound signals built in and have both forward and rearward speakers. We do use the sound signals when in restricted visibility.

 

[tiltrider1]

First, yesterday was very interesting, in the morning the fog was 200’ above sea level. Most people thought they were looking at low level clouds but there is a difference between fog and clouds. Secondly, fog in the Puget Sound usually shows up between 6 and 7am and burns off between 10am and 12pm. In this case the fog descended around 11 am and didn’t burn off until 4pm. Needles to say, a lot of boaters got caught out by this.

 

[Hippocampus]

When in the vicinity of Radar/AIS targets will often get on the VHF and ask if we’re well seen. Think there are few vessels with transponders which don’t also have radar. Also get a quick and dirty check on the VHF.

Find sound maybe most misleading when in fog. There maybe enough that sound reflects or deflects so you get confused as to where it’s actually coming from. Try to not depend on it. Want to see lights or a target on a screen before being comfortable.

Believe people don’t utilize the tuning functions on their radar often enough. They just touch one of the presets and good to go. That’s not true. With just a little bit of effort you can see even wooden skiffs.
Love boats with two radars. Can use totally different ranges and tunings and not miss anything.
Commonly HTN coastal there choke points. The Race at the East end of Long Island Sound or channels like Anagada or between the islands. Often you can set up yourself up. Watch that space until you can predict low or no traffic when you get there. Then go on through.

 

[Seevee]

A wood hull boat will not give much of a radar return signal but metal objects in and on the boat will. Things such as engines, transmissions, bow rails, etc. will give a radar return but again, it's not going to be a strong signal.



Do you not have a chart plotter on board?

A wood boat is clearly visible on radar. Heck, a small wooden piling is, too. Granted, some metal objects may be better, but there's a LOT of wood things out there that are visible.



I like to spot little wooden and cork crab traps (or whatever the heck they're made of) on my radar.... and works well at night when navigating home, just off the ICW.


Yes, one has to adjust the radar for the situation... but a few presets work pretty well.

 

[ctjstr]

So back to the OP post.

Could it be that the radar was absorbed by the wooden boat, thus not showing up on radar? Too bad you two could not have talked for a few and suggested installing a radar ball.

we were getting a relatively small reflection. I knew something was out there, but it was close to stationary, enough so that I really wasn't sure it was moving until I saw it. I was also shocked by its size, since its reflection was much more akin to a runabout. With hindsight I would have made a more dramatic turn one way or another to give it a wider birth.

I was also on the horn quite a bit and never heard a response from him. He was probably laughing because my horn is somewhat 'unique". It has two horns, but one is broken, off short which allows the sound to be an off key, high/low combination. Very anemic.

Fortunately with the slow speeds on both sides, there was plenty of time and space to adjust.

As someone else mentioned, the "scary" stuff is when someone is bombing along at way too fast a pace. As we were in the area of Blake Island, there were a few comments on the radio from folks complaining to coast guard, about someone racing around in a small boat at speeds estimated at 30+ near Alki. Now THAT is just dumb.

 

[ctjstr]

When in the vicinity of Radar/AIS targets will often get on the VHF and ask if we’re well seen. Think there are few vessels with transponders which don’t also have radar. Also get a quick and dirty check on the VHF.

Find sound maybe most misleading when in fog. There maybe enough that sound reflects or deflects so you get confused as to where it’s actually coming from. Try to not depend on it. Want to see lights or a target on a screen before being comfortable.

Believe people don’t utilize the tuning functions on their radar often enough. They just touch one of the presets and good to go. That’s not true. With just a little bit of effort you can see even wooden skiffs.
Love boats with two radars. Can use totally different ranges and tunings and not miss anything.
Commonly HTN coastal there choke points. The Race at the East end of Long Island Sound or channels like Anagada or between the islands. Often you can set up yourself up. Watch that space until you can predict low or no traffic when you get there. Then go on through.

I actually thought of getting on the radio. But figured "hey you...get on your horn and get out of the way." was probably not going to help.

 

[ben2go]

I would get to the closest place to tie up or drop anchor and wait out the low vis conditions. I would do this in a heavy traffic area. If I was in an area I know well and low traffic, I may continue on slowly with nav lights, radar, and AIS on.

 

[bayview]

I and many others did many years of boating without radar and GPS. Finding your way through the Golden Gate in pea soup using just DR was not great fun. No place to anchor so you just keep going. Got one solid FIX when the GG bridge fog horn let off a blast.

One lesion I learned long ago is that when piloting in fog in a marked area absolutely confirm the ID of any mark you come upon. Not just close but within clear reading distance.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

I’d add, identify any radar contact you encounter, if at all possible.

 

[psneeld]

I’d add, identify any radar contact you encounter, if at all possible.

If its a moving target, I suggest staying away from it.

 

[quinsky]

Back in our sailing days (early 90's) we got caught in thick fog motoring up the Elizabeth River in Norfolk. No radar or chart plotter. We heard a tugboat captain announce that he was guiding a freighter down the river. We found a channel marker and circled it and announced our position over the VHF. Also gave sound signals. The tug came over and guided us to a commercial pier where we stayed until the fog lifted.

 

[Glaukos]

As we dropped south of Vashon island and started across the bay, our radar picked up several smaller boats (plus one big ferry). One in particular caught my attention as it was almost directly in front of us and moving very slow. As we got closer, I kept telling Sara to keep her eyes open as we had to be right on top of it. By then we were creeping along idle speed maybe.

All of a sudden there was this boat. We were crossing in front of it and cleared it by MAYBE two boat lenths.

Rule 19 (d) states that: " A vessel which detects by radar alone the presence of another vessel shall determine if a close-quarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists. If so, she shall take avoiding action in ample time, provided that when such action consists of an alteration in course, so far as possible the following shall be avoided:

(i) An alteration of course to port for a vessel forward of the beam, other than for a vessel being overtaken;
(ii) An alteration of course toward a vessel abeam or abaft the beam."

Rule 7 - Risk of Collision, states that:

"(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.

(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

(d) In determining if risk of collision exists the following considerations shall be among those taken into account:

(i) Such risk shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing of an approaching vessel does not appreciably change.
(ii) Such risk may sometimes exist even when an appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a tow or when approaching a vessel at close range."

The electronic bearing line on the radar is helpful in determining whether a target is on a collision course - "constant bearing decreasing range" indicates a collision course, which it seems would have applied in the situation described. I find it hard to understand how a slow-moving target being tracked by radar could get within a two boat-length near collision. Granted, I don't know the maneuvering options in the locality or which boat was burdened. Also, there is no indication in the original post what the distance was when the target first appeared, what means were taken to determine whether a risk of collision existed, or what actions other than slowing down were taken "in ample time" to avoid the risk of collision.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of the OP, but he asked what others think.

 

[Sabre602]

I have come to really appreciate the fact that a lot of boaters aren't following the rules. I will still attempt to contact them on the VHF, but am not surprised when there is no response. Nor am I surprised when they aren't running the required fog signals, or when their nighttime navigation lights aren't even on. Accordingly, when at all unsure of the intentions of others, I take pains to "drive defensively," as I always have done while riding my motorcycle.

I have found, of course, that the commercial AIS targets almost always seem to appreciate a voice contact to verify intentions.

It goes without saying that I strictly adhere to these rules. Worst case scenario, in the event that there is a collision, I will be sure that my boat is properly lit, properly broadcasting an automated fog signal, using its radar as an active means of navigating safely, and taking pains to adhere to the rules.