Teak Deck - remove screws but leave the teak??

[Andiamo2018]

Our teak decks are tired, worn and a few bungs are missing. In checking it out I found that there appears to have been work in the past to seal screws and glue down strip points. There is no indication of leaking anywhere.

The teak is sealed / glued to the substrate and doesn't come up easily at all.

My question:

Why not just pull the screws, drill out the holes a bit, fill with epoxy (assuming there isn't any indication of wetness while drilling out the holes), sand and recaulk while leaving the original teak in place?

No more screw holes, no more leaking (if there ever was).

Second questions:

Concerning the stiffness that the teak might be providing I am considering removing the teak and putting down an expensive layer of G 10 with epoxy and a traditional non-skid coating on top.

Thoughts?? I'm also considering the coating option discussed on another thread. Removing the high areas of the caulk is pretty easy and a sanding would / possibly / hopefully stop the telegraphing of the caulk lines.

 

[Shrew]

You'd have a 'floating deck' like a floating floor, with nothing holding it down.

You'd be better off removing the deck, drilling and sealing the holes, then installing a faux teak deck in it's place.

 

[Andiamo2018]

They are held down pretty tight with the sealant / adhesive. It takes a lot to pry them up so I stopped after the first one broke. Fortunately I can glue that one back without it looking weird - if I got that route.

Considering how strong the teak is it must be providing a decent amount of stiffness that would be lost with the faux teak unless I also add some glass.

 

[Alisske]

I think my your right. Most of the decking will just want to stay where it is.

I bet you it would hold together for a bit. Maybe even a season. Then bits would eventually start coming up of breaking off. Even worse, create a tripping hazard.

That being said, may not be the best use of resources. If your gonna do it, you should do it and make a permanent solution.

On the other hand, I’m sure you can get another season of two out of it as is and figure out finances or a better plan.

Not a bad idea though.

A

 

[GH41]

The teak was probably never factored into the structural schedule. I would worry that I would be cutting off the top of a can of worms that would be difficult and expensive to put back on.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I started removing the old caulk and screws and sanded with 60 grit. So far so good. Getting the screws out is the hardest part as most of them I have to take a razor knife to clean them so the bit fits into them enough to remove them.

Nothing seems loose at all. If anything starts to look loose I'll try some black 4200 and lead weights.

 

[BrisHamish]

"Why not just pull the screws, drill out the holes a bit, fill with epoxy (assuming there isn't any indication of wetness while drilling out the holes), sand and recaulk while leaving the original teak in place?

No more screw holes, no more leaking (if there ever was)."

To the OP. That is exactly what I do, it works a treat.

 

[Shrew]

I started removing the old caulk and screws and sanded with 60 grit. So far so good. Getting the screws out is the hardest part as most of them I have to take a razor knife to clean them so the bit fits into them enough to remove them.

Nothing seems loose at all. If anything starts to look loose I'll try some black 4200 and lead weights.

3m 4000 is UV resistant.

 

[PM]

I pulled the teak on my flybridge, it was not fun but not a huge task. I have now painted the deck and walkway on the lower level. I learned a lot along the way and once I complete the job I'll point out my mistakes and post some pictures. So far I am happy with the results.

I bought an electric caulk removal tool from Defender and a spare set of blades and tips. It is unbelievable how well it works. So while the job does not look perfect I have finally stopped all the leaks in the teak deck. Watch for a future post detailing the job.

pete

 

[Comodave]

I think that if the deck core is solid and dry then I would immediately proceed to removing the teak deck and fiberglassing it. Reason why is that sooner or later the coring will get wet and then it will be a much much bigger job to replace the wet coring. If the coring is wet now then now is the time to bite the bullet and replace the core and reglass the deck. The teak decks will cause wet core at some point unless it is a later boat with glued down teak vice screwed down teak. I know this isn’t what you want to hear but it is reality.

 

[Cigatoo]

Our teak decks are tired, worn and a few bungs are missing. In checking it out I found that there appears to have been work in the past to seal screws and glue down strip points. There is no indication of leaking anywhere.

The teak is sealed / glued to the substrate and doesn't come up easily at all.

My question:

Why not just pull the screws, drill out the holes a bit, fill with epoxy (assuming there isn't any indication of wetness while drilling out the holes), sand and recaulk while leaving the original teak in place?

No more screw holes, no more leaking (if there ever was).

Second questions:

Concerning the stiffness that the teak might be providing I am considering removing the teak and putting down an expensive layer of G 10 with epoxy and a traditional non-skid coating on top.

Thoughts?? I'm also considering the coating option discussed on another thread. Removing the high areas of the caulk is pretty easy and a sanding would / possibly / hopefully stop the telegraphing of the caulk lines.

I’ve been doing exactly that. Remove the bung and screw, drill down with 3/8th drill through top layer fiberglass, into the core, but not through the bottom layer of glass. Then fill with epoxy and pop in the bung. I cant speak for your boat but on the Grand Banks those decks are glued down real good. No screws needed.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I'm excited about having nice teak decks again! The hardest part has been cleaning the screw heads. The channels where the caulking goes has gotten really shallow so I might need to make a router guide and make them deeper. Or sand them out entirely and have a totally smooth teak surface

 

[koliver]

I'm excited about having nice teak decks again! The hardest part has been cleaning the screw heads. The channels where the caulking goes has gotten really shallow so I might need to make a router guide and make them deeper. Or sand them out entirely and have a totally smooth teak surface

For at least the last 25 years, the laying of teak decks has been without any screws. The area to be laid is laid out on patterns on the shop floor and the caulking is put down between the boards. Once set up, a layer of similar caulking is troweled onto the deck where it is to go and the teak is laid in place. I don't know how it is secured while waiting for the caulking/adhesive is setting, but once set, it won't move, for the life of the boat.
Adhesives haven't changed since your deck was laid. Only the techniques. Screws were used to hold the boards in place while the adhesive cured. That may have taken as much as few weeks. After that, the screws are unnecessary and can be removed and never replaced.

Between the boards is usually a channel with a depth of approximately 1/2 the original thickness of the boards. There may also be a "bond breaker" in that channel, which will need to be replaced if you pull out the old one. The purpose of the BB is so the teak can expand and contract seasonally, without tearing the seal of the caulking from the sides of the channel.

If you don't have any bond breaker, your original installation my have been different from the method counselled by Lifecaulk, when you buy your caulking from them, as I did.

 

[Andiamo2018]

Everything is a learning process I might skip the caulk and just have teak. I don't think the admiral will like that though. I imagine I'll make a jig or guide for my router after all the holes are filled and it's glued down.

I think instead of a countersink I'll just drill out the holes for the bungs and take that same hole straight on into the fiberglass. Then pour in the epoxy and put in the bung.

For at least the last 25 years, the laying of teak decks has been without any screws. The area to be laid is laid out on patterns on the shop floor and the caulking is put down between the boards. Once set up, a layer of similar caulking is troweled onto the deck where it is to go and the teak is laid in place. I don't know how it is secured while waiting for the caulking/adhesive is setting, but once set, it won't move, for the life of the boat.
Adhesives haven't changed since your deck was laid. Only the techniques. Screws were used to hold the boards in place while the adhesive cured. That may have taken as much as few weeks. After that, the screws are unnecessary and can be removed and never replaced.

Between the boards is usually a channel with a depth of approximately 1/2 the original thickness of the boards. There may also be a "bond breaker" in that channel, which will need to be replaced if you pull out the old one. The purpose of the BB is so the teak can expand and contract seasonally, without tearing the seal of the caulking from the sides of the channel.

If you don't have any bond breaker, your original installation my have been different from the method counselled by Lifecaulk, when you buy your caulking from them, as I did.

 

[Andiamo2018]

@cigatoo

Any tips for me? I've got a few loose slats but for the most part the deck is down tight.

I’ve been doing exactly that. Remove the bung and screw, drill down with 3/8th drill through top layer fiberglass, into the core, but not through the bottom layer of glass. Then fill with epoxy and pop in the bung. I cant speak for your boat but on the Grand Banks those decks are glued down real good. No screws needed.

 

[FF]

"Concerning the stiffness that the teak might be providing I am considering removing the teak and putting down an expensive layer of G 10 with epoxy and a traditional non-skid coating on top."


In most TT cases the teak overlay was an upsell for the boat dealer , a profit maker but not part of the hull scantlings.

 

[Cigatoo]

@cigatoo

Any tips for me? I've got a few loose slats but for the most part the deck is down tight.

Nothing else that I can think of. Bungs are 3/8. Drill using 3/8 drill, fill, and insert new bung.

 

[Cigatoo]

“In most TT cases the teak overlay was an upsell for the boat dealer , a profit maker but not part of the hull scantlings.”

That’s a great observation. Never thought about that. I wonder how the GB’s were shipped?

 

[Andiamo2018]

Scantlings! I can't remember hearing that word before. Thanks![

QUOTE=FF;890059]"Concerning the stiffness that the teak might be providing I am considering removing the teak and putting down an expensive layer of G 10 with epoxy and a traditional non-skid coating on top."


In most TT cases the teak overlay was an upsell for the boat dealer , a profit maker but not part of the hull scantlings.[/QUOTE]

 

[Andiamo2018]

Scantlings aside an older boat needs all the help she can get. The fiberglass under the teak is smooth so there had to be something else added. I'm not sure if any of them came without teak - at least none that I have seen. But either way retaining whatever help the teak offers seems like a good idea. Plus it looks good

 

[Patrick4002]

I have a leak on the front skylight from the deck i have a 20cm teak in the uppe sction where the kalking is bad Im thinking of rekalking, removing the screws filling up the wholes with thin epoxy and replacing the screws with butyl to make a permanent flexible seal,

Have used butyl in the past its messy but keeps flexibel even afther years

I have a trader 54 from 90 (got it dec 2019)
there where 5 leaks mostly on the window kitting and top kitting of the after deck, now only one leak remaining... have to wait for better weather to help this part

 

[Tangler]

I took the upper teak deck off completely.there is no reliable way to find leaks as water travels the route of least resistance.could start at the bow and only appear at the stern. I have extensive experience with this in both boats and rv’s. Don’t waste your time...if it’s suspect rip it out. I put 3 layers fibreglass and a gel coat floor...no regrets...looks great and zero maintenance. I don’t think the teak lends any structural benefit, not to my boat anyway.

 

[SeaMoose]

What Tangler said 1000 times over.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I'm filling the screw holes with epoxy. If I have to screw down some teak to hold it while gluing it to the deck I will but then that screw will come out and the hole filled. Fortunately no leaks anywhere and all the screw holes I've drilled out so far just produced dust

The teak is really nice when it is in good shape. With no screws and with the new bungs it can be sanded for a long time.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I'm not sure what the benefit is of going to the trouble of removing the screws. Pull out the old bung if it still there and put a couple drops of penetrating epoxy down the hole on top of the screw head. If it disappears, add more. If not, penetrating epoxy will hold a teak bung in place.

The problem isn't the presence of a screw, it is the possibility that the screw penetration might allow water through (in the past or future) into the plywood core. Two drops of penetrating epoxy can solve that and still maintain the structural benefit (if any) of keeping the screw. It seems like it would save a lot of time.

It is possible that water could enter through a caulk line and migrate over to a screw hole, but given the stickiness of caulk, I would think that is a rare occurrence compared to leaking directly down through the bung and screw penetration.

 

[Andiamo2018]

I'm a big fan of penetrating epoxy (CPES - Smiths but it doesn't have much strength. If I find a small soft spot I'll use it first and then let if off gas entirely before filling the hole. While it does seem to seal wood it won't 'hold' a screw in place. It probably would work for at least a few years though.

But anything going into the deck is going to expand and contract at a different rate that the different materials around. I like the idea of the deck being totally sealed - at least as much as possible.

Also a lot of screw heads were protruding. Instead of trying to sink the screws deeper or putting in a shallow bung I'm choosing for what will be a longer term solution. Once the fiberglass substrate is solid with no holes I can do whatever want with the teak above it including ignoring it for years.

And when it comes time to sell the boat being able to say 'no screw holes or screws anymore' should help along with have a nice looking deck.

I'm not sure what the benefit is of going to the trouble of removing the screws. Pull out the old bung if it still there and put a couple drops of penetrating epoxy down the hole on top of the screw head. If it disappears, add more. If not, penetrating epoxy will hold a teak bung in place.

The problem isn't the presence of a screw, it is the possibility that the screw penetration might allow water through (in the past or future) into the plywood core. Two drops of penetrating epoxy can solve that and still maintain the structural benefit (if any) of keeping the screw. It seems like it would save a lot of time.

It is possible that water could enter through a caulk line and migrate over to a screw hole, but given the stickiness of caulk, I would think that is a rare occurrence compared to leaking directly down through the bung and screw penetration.