Tips on replacing fuel tanks

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My boat was built with 2 - 100 Gal poly tanks. I would not want anything else.
 
I have two aluminum tanks that are properly mounted so that they sit above the bilges and have air space all the way around. I doubt they will ever need to be replaced for corrosion issues. However, I have been considering a trip that might require 250 more gallons than I presently have tankage for . One way of solving this would be to have a custom polyethylene tank made that used the bilge space for for greater capacity.

The other possibility would be to just add a bladder tank to my lazarette.
 
I have two aluminum tanks that are properly mounted so that they sit above the bilges and have air space all the way around. I doubt they will ever need to be replaced for corrosion issues.

My tanks are similar. Heavy aluminum, well mounted under the aft bunk. They're in good shape after 35 years
But just in case, I did some measuring and if I take the door and door frame apart in the aft cabin, some careful work would allow a tank to be carried out of the boat with the fittings removed. Fortunately, being that my tanks are full of gas, not diesel, I don't have the same concerns for water in the tanks. Of course, the idea of a leak is that must scarier as a result...
 
Our boat has fiberglass diesel tanks. One of the reasons we bought it.
 
As long as your aluminum tanks don't have damage from water and organisms in the bottom of the tank.
 
I religiously add double recommended amount of Zoltron into gasoline volume in each of our Tolly's 100 gal aluminum tanks. Good for diesel too.

This liquid dissolves critters/growths and makes water that may be inside a tank emulsify with the fuel. I'm confident of its capabilities due to reasons of needing to have its capabilities successfully alter circumstances regarding fuel in my boat's tanks and filter system; upon purchase. Task was fully accomplished... after just two 1/2 tank fulls. Used it since for well over a decade - consistent results... continually clean gasoline in filters.
 
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I didn't realize that "critters" grew in gasoline.

pete
 
I didn't realize that "critters" grew in gasoline.


Gas doesn't usually grow algae and such like diesel, but if it's non ethanol gas, it can collect water in the tanks just as badly as diesel with the same inside-out tank corrosion risk. And with enough water down there, I'd assume there's something that could start to grow. Ethanol gas absorbs water (provided it's not so much that the gas separates and goes bad), so the tanks stay dry. When running non-ethanol (which is most of the time these days) I make a point to throw a few bottles of dry gas (isopropyl alcohol) in the tanks periodically to soak up any stray bits of moisture to avoid them building up in the bottom of the tanks.
 
I didn't realize that "critters" grew in gasoline.

pete

Pete

I often use poetic license! LOL I.e., "critters/growth" a quote from my post. :dance:

"Bacteria and fungus cause microbial growth. Microbial growth occurs when water is in the storage tank and fuel temperature is between 10 C and 40 C. Bacterial and fungal spores commonly found in the soil can enter the fuel tank through vents on the storage tank or through contamination during filling."
 
Gas doesn't usually grow algae and such like diesel, but if it's non ethanol gas, it can collect water in the tanks just as badly as diesel with the same inside-out tank corrosion risk. And with enough water down there, I'd assume there's something that could start to grow. Ethanol gas absorbs water (provided it's not so much that the gas separates and goes bad), so the tanks stay dry. When running non-ethanol (which is most of the time these days) I make a point to throw a few bottles of dry gas (isopropyl alcohol) in the tanks periodically to soak up any stray bits of moisture to avoid them building up in the bottom of the tanks.

When we got our Tolly in 2008... Orig owner had passed at 90 some years. He'd lived aboard in a slip with no new fuel for over a decade. At 1K metered hours, port engine had just been fully rebuilt and starboard got a complete new top end - both hands-on accomplished by a renowned marine mechanic. Also the starboard trans had just been rebuilt by a great trany shop that I've used for decades. [whole sequence is an interesting story of its own!].

First thing I did was open up the dual screw-on canister gasoline filters [separate filter for each tank]. Fuel in each looked really bad [poured them into big glass container] sorta reminded me of dirty, particle filled pancake syrup... but not as thick or sticky. I immediately screwed on new filter canisters and brought both tanks to 1/2 full... they had been near empty. While filling [with 5 gal portable tanks] I simultaneously [so it mixed well with the fuel] put well over 4X recommended amount of Soltron into each tank. Let it set for a few days.

Started the engines, let em warm up and run for a while at idle. Did same thing with fuel in filter visual inspection [still very dirty] and put on new filter canisters. Let things set again for a few days. Started the twins again and let em idle for well over an hour. Did same again with the filters. This time much cleaner fuel color and way less junk floating in the fuel. Did that whole scene one more time. Fuel had gotten quite clear and had next to no junk floating around.

After that we took the boat out and ran it for a few hours. Again did full check on fuel and new canisters on filters. Noticed a bit off color of the fuel and no junk. Some days later we cruised the boat for a while. I repeated the filter/fuel stuff... fuel looked good! Then I made sure tanks were again 1/2 full with 4X Soltron added while filling.

To close up this post - want to say - After the two 1/2 tanks and many filter replacements with much Soltron added the fuel has always stayed 100% clear. Soooo... As I had such good results in the beginning I always keep 2X more than recommended Soltron in our two 100 gallon aluminum gasoline tanks :thumb: :D
 

Boy, that's a pablum article, for sure. As is typical of mainstream yachting magazine articles, few of them written by professional boatwrights, this article simply broad-brushes some very significant technical issues related to marine fuel tanks. While the article (perhaps) is food for thought, it's little more than eye candy.

In my opinion, while the article suggests 15 to 20 years as end-of-life for tankage, this may be the only factual, useful information in the article. And for every journalist that suggests a 15-year service life for tankage, there will be a bozillion anecdotal responses by others braying that "...mine are black iron, have lasted for 40 years, and are PERFECT." "...I add (insert your own brand here) mouse milk to my fuel, and it works GREAT." "...Make your tanks out of monel. They'll last forever." etc. There may be more miscellaneous misinformation extent on the WWW (and in yachting magazines!) regarding marine fuel tanks than Carter has pills.

Very telling from the article is the very first picture of the workers at Tiara, installing a plastic tank into a new 38LS. And the tell? IT'S GOING IN BEFORE THE DECK GOES ON. So how come the journalist isn't commenting on this absolutely ridiculous oh-so-common practice by production yacht manufacturers? Is there any such thing as objective journalism any more?

Further subtle contradictions in reality lay in the paragraphs in the article referring to fiberglass tankage, once used by Hatteras and Bertram, (and currently by other unnamed but "quality" builders such as Pacific Asian Enterprises). And that reality is that Bertram, to name only one, has had MULTIPLE reported failures of their fiberglass tankage, forcing (typically) aluminum replacement.

And "fantastic plastic"? Any claims by ANYONE that plastic (a generic term for a multiplicity of non-metallic materials) tankage will last for the life of the boat is full of more stuff than a christmas goose. And admittedly, this article does NOT make this claim-good on 'em. Plastic may be arguably a better choice than others for new construction, but no panacea for poor installation practices (foaming in place? Please, NOOOOOOOO....). And, given the practicalities of rotomolding, forcing significant compromise in replacement plastic tankage due to installation issues. The "...material for the future?" Well, I'm not likely to bet on ANY petroleum product as a "material for the future".

So is there any real solution to the financial conundrum of fuel tank issues for both the shareholders of major yacht manufacturing companies, and us poor slobs left holding the bag with failed fuel tanks (and water/holding as well) while trying to deal with poor installation practices and poor material choices by the builders? No, not unless and until we, the yachting "public", start to nag, bray, lobby, yell, demand, and cajole those yachting professional boatwrights that service BOTH sides of the owner/builder fence.

Cajole them to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE acknowledge that tankage has a finite service life. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE provide soft patches above equipment areas on boats. If the tankage is installed in the engine room, please provide a soft patch in not only the engine room ceiling, but in the salon ceiling above, to allow major equipment to be removed from our boats intact. Forcing downstream owners, left with failed tankage after 15, 20, 25 years of service life to use a sawzall to effect tankage removal is reprehensible, and the boating industry should be ashamed. And we, who PAY for this practice, should demand better from our suppliers.

Sorry for this rant, but as a veteran of way too many marine tank failures that could have been easily remediated by some sound forethought from the various naval architects and builders, it's a hot button for me.

Regards,

Pete
 
"This liquid dissolves critters/growths and makes water that may be inside a tank emulsify with the fuel."

A gas powered boat has far less hassles with emulsified fuel than a diesel , which hopes to pass only clear fuel to the engine.
 
To Art:

Very interesting story. I'm so glad it worked out for you. One question.. Gas or Diesel? you didn't mention. They are different and age differently.

I am assuming that if they were gas you would have mentioned something about the smell. Old gas has a distinct varnish, stale smell. Probably would have required carb rebuilds also.

Congratulations on dodging a bullet.

pete
 
Sorry for this rant, but as a veteran of way too many marine tank failures that could have been easily remediated by some sound forethought from the various naval architects and builders, it's a hot button for me.

Regards,

Pete

Boy o' Boy, Pete... glad you got that off your chest! :facepalm: :D :thumb:

So... I'd like us all on TF to freely banter onto a "tankage-idiom" filled discussion of anecdotes and antidotes wherein experiences and solutions stand at forefront. That is, for the good of the boating community! :dance:

First - Congratulations on owning a Tollycraft 48' tri cabin, cockpit! What year is it? I love the 48's. May I ask - How are the tanks in tour Tolly and how have they fared over the years? Please share.

I'll say, the apparently original, 44 year old aluminum tanks in our 1977 gasoline powered 34' Tolly tri cabin, sundeck are still looking good and serving well. Similar regarding the two plastic water tanks. And, the now 12 year old black tank; that is doing fine with no odor emittance at all.

Second - With you being "... a veteran of way too many marine tank failures..." could you please describe your experiences as well as what you did to remedy/alleviate the problems? Any high notes for extending tank life as well as for replacing tanks when necessary could be of great assistance to current boat owners as well as to "boat-lookers" who are visiting boats in contemplation of purchase.

Reason I ask the above is because there are millions of boat owners who right now own or are looking at older boats. Personally, even though our fuel tanks currently look great and serve well, I have already formulated a procedure to replace them. Would sure be good to learn what you did to remedy your "... way too many marine tank failures...". I'll bet you have some experience and tricks that would be great for all on TF to have at hand when/if any of us need to continue/improve tank maintenance, remove old tanks and/or to install new tanks in our beloved boats.

Happy Tolly-Ownership Daze - Art :speed boat:
 
I'll say, the apparently original, 44 year old aluminum tanks in our 1977 gasoline powered 34' Tolly tri cabin, sundeck are still looking good and serving well.


That gives me some hope for having more life left in my still apparently healthy aluminum gas tanks (which are 35 years old at this point).
 
To Art:

Very interesting story. I'm so glad it worked out for you. One question.. Gas or Diesel? you didn't mention. They are different and age differently.

I am assuming that if they were gas you would have mentioned something about the smell. Old gas has a distinct varnish, stale smell. Probably would have required carb rebuilds also.

Congratulations on dodging a bullet.

pete

Pete - Thanks on the congrats! Hoping my "luck" holds out... forever if possible! LOL

Our Tolly is a gasser! Twin 1977 Mercruiser - 350 ci , 255 hp. each. 7.5 kW Kohler gen set. Twins had starboard full rebuild and port all new top end 13 years ago. No odors at all in engine compartment... I'm often down there with two very wide hatches full open in mid salon area [I care for them like baby's - center of engines standup headroom makes service easy and is very appreciated]. In general... this layout makes it simple to deal with engines and other mechanical items. Gets a little touchy servicing outboard engine sides - a trade off I readily accept for having twins; and, I do love twin screws!
 

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That gives me some hope for having more life left in my still apparently healthy aluminum gas tanks (which are 35 years old at this point).

Much about owning and playing with our ridiculously poor investment "Pleasure-Boats" is all about a "Wish and a Hope"!

But ain't it fun!!! If ya gotta have an addiction... pleasure boating is surely a Great One! :dance:
 
"This liquid dissolves critters/growths and makes water that may be inside a tank emulsify with the fuel."

A gas powered boat has far less hassles with emulsified fuel than a diesel , which hopes to pass only clear fuel to the engine.

I recommend reading much of this website: https://soltron-gtr.com/

IMO - Soltron works!
 
Art - Are those belt covers on your Mercs factory? I occasionally wish for them on mine, as the exposed belts lead to me strongly disliking ever having to crawl outboard (past the front of the engines) with an engine running.
 
Art - Are those belt covers on your Mercs factory? I occasionally wish for them on mine, as the exposed belts lead to me strongly disliking ever having to crawl outboard (past the front of the engines) with an engine running.

I imagine so... came with boat when purchased.
 
I imagine so... came with boat when purchased.


Interesting. I wonder if they were only on early years, or if that was a Tollycraft addition. I've never seen another Merc engine with covers. Most are bare belts up front like mine.
 

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Interesting. I wonder if they were only on early years, or if that was a Tollycraft addition. I've never seen another Merc engine with covers. Most are bare belts up front like mine.

When you say "most"; have you seen others with belt covers similar to mine?
 
When you say "most"; have you seen others with belt covers similar to mine?


I say most because I can't remember for sure, and I haven't seen every Merc engine model out there. But I don't remember ever seeing belt covers like yours.
 
You have a rare opportunity to be in the drivers seat.
This is a time when you’re not stuck w the boat the designers thought it should be.
Namely you can now change an significant part of the design yourself.

You now can change the capacity/size of the tanks, what they are made of and where they should be. Your boat as designed is/was the product of designers, marketeers and safety engineers. A boat designed to appeal to the average buyer. Now in this regard you can change it to the way YOU want it to be keeping resale value in mind if you have the need.

Go for it.
 
When my boat went into refit, I decided to replace my aluminum tanks after googling aluminum expect tank life. The answer was shorter than I anticipated. The tanks in my boat were original build which meant they were 50 years old.

My refit guy actually fought me on replacing them. From the angles the tank could be seen, they appeared solid and undamaged. But I kept thinking these tanks are long past there "best before" date. I decided since the boat would be entirely gutted this was the time to redo the tanks, I could have saved many thousands if I had gone with the refits recommendation.

I also upsized my total gas tanks capacity. The original tanks were 50 gallons, I replaced them with 80 gallons (160 gallon total). The aluminum tanks were set out in the refit yard where they sat for some time. My refit guy discovered they had very very slow leaks from the corners that were not visible in the boat.

I went with poly tanks knowing they had great longevity. My philosophy during refit was to replace anything that would suffer due to age. Basically this meant about 98 % of everything went. I didn't want a boat to nickel and dime me to death as various components aged out.
 
Boy o' Boy, Pete... glad you got that off your chest! :facepalm: :D :thumb:

So... I'd like us all on TF to freely banter onto a "tankage-idiom" filled discussion of anecdotes and antidotes wherein experiences and solutions stand at forefront. That is, for the good of the boating community! :dance:

Well, Art, I've been on this toot for quite some time. Attached is an article I wrote in 2014 and forwarded to Professional Boatbuilder Magazine (https://www.proboat.com/). Unpublished, I'm sorry to say.

Also attached is a case study of the water tank replacement I performed on my Canoe Cove 53 in 2008, owned prior to my Tolly 48. This study was forwarded as information to the Canoe Cove Owners Association. Unfortunately, I was forced into a MUCH more significant fuel tank replacement on the same boat only a few years later. Documentation of THAT goat-rope was beyond my ability at the time. Needless to say, it was an interesting (and VERY expensive) experience!

Far more importantly than my meager contributions was an article written by Steve D'Antonio, and published in Passagemaker Magazine in September of 2001. I'm attaching a link to that article as well.

Given that, to my knowledge, NO (I say again-NO)production boatbuilder to date has chosen to acknowledge that tankage has A FINITE SERVICE LIFE, and a much shorter service life than the vessel as a whole. And much more troublesome, none have provided accomodation to that reality. Yes, some production builders do "a better job" than others in their tankage design and installation practices. Pacific Asian Enterprises, for one, does at least provide routine access to the internals of at least their fuel tanks. But when (not if, but when) those tanks fail, they'll still have to be sawcut out of the boat for replacement.

As to your desire that I, and others, contribute "...anecdotes and antidotes wherein experiences and solutions stand at forefront. That is, for the good of the boating community!", well I can only claim resignation after trying to do just that. And fall back on my previous plea to those professional boatwrights such as Steve D'Antonio to please keep up the fight. Maybe the manufacturers will listen to them.

And one final anecdote from me. My 42 year old Tolly 48 sprang a water tank leak in the summer of 2020. Yup, out came the sawzall, and several thousands of dead presidents later, a new one went in. FYI, the major culprit was foaming in place of an aluminum tank. Made the tank bottom into swiss cheese. Sigh.

Regards,

Pete
 

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When my boat went into refit, I decided to replace my aluminum tanks after googling aluminum expect tank life. The answer was shorter than I anticipated. The tanks in my boat were original build which meant they were 50 years old.

My refit guy actually fought me on replacing them. From the angles the tank could be seen, they appeared solid and undamaged. But I kept thinking these tanks are long past there "best before" date. I decided since the boat would be entirely gutted this was the time to redo the tanks, I could have saved many thousands if I had gone with the refits recommendation.

I also upsized my total gas tanks capacity. The original tanks were 50 gallons, I replaced them with 80 gallons (160 gallon total). The aluminum tanks were set out in the refit yard where they sat for some time. My refit guy discovered they had very very slow leaks from the corners that were not visible in the boat.

I went with poly tanks knowing they had great longevity. My philosophy during refit was to replace anything that would suffer due to age. Basically this meant about 98 % of everything went. I didn't want a boat to nickel and dime me to death as various components aged out.

Diesel?
 
Pete

Thanks for "tank" input and links [which I'll look into].

How are the aluminum [I guess that's the material] fuel tanks doing in your 1979 Tolly... still OK - I hope!
 
Pete

Thanks for "tank" input and links [which I'll look into].

How are the aluminum [I guess that's the material] fuel tanks doing in your 1979 Tolly... still OK - I hope!

Hi Art,

In an honest answer to your question regarding the condition of my Tolly 48 fuel tankage, I can only respond "Who the %^&* knows?" Certainly not my surveyor, myself, the previous owner(s), or the multiple marine professionals I've had aboard for service. Tollycraft is long out of production, so nobody's left at the factory. No drawings, and even the naval architect is long gone. And much as I'd like xray vision, Superman's not around.

There is a possibility of stripping the insulation off the inboard side of the tanks, and assuming one is about the size of a stringbean, shimmy up and over the main engines with a borescope and at least see the tank tops and inboard sides, and maybe the ends. But so what? There is no, zero, zip, nada, nyet way to remove those tanks in situ, should they either fail a visual inspection, or leak. Absent dynamiting the side of the boat, should you be so inclined.

The only practical way to non-destructively determine condition of the fuel tankage is to monitor the bilge. Should fuel oil show up, then one can conclude the tank(s) leak. Otherwise, I shut my eyes, pray they'll stay intact throughout my ownership, and quake in fear every time I contemplate a failure in one of those tanks.

Tankage contributes to a major conundrum of ownership of large, old cruising powerboats. They're old enough to be (relatively) affordable. Yet each is loaded with "tank-bombs", waiting to go off on the poor schmuck that happens to hold the keys at the time, causing probable major cost issues. Unfortunately, despite only a minor cost delta in new construction (incorporating soft patches, for instance), no current manufacture is willing to deal with this issue. Ditto for major engine service (i.e. a rebuild or repower). Pisses me off.

Regards,

Pete
 
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