Radar and GPS Upgrade Advice Needed

[jdscott3]

I've an 1981 GB 42 Classic, the Radar is probably original, the GPS plotter is about 4 years old but a cheepo that I don't like.

I think I need a combination Radar/GPS and would prefer something simple and dependable. My guess is this is a common question, but could someone please steer me in the right direction?

We cruised half way to Alaska last summer and will likely repeat that this year. We spend a lot of time locally cruising around Anacortes. I also am retired and have a son who is handy with electronics that will likely help with the installation.

Any input would be desired, the key terms I like are simple, logical and dependable. I am heavily dependent on charts and want to learn more about electronics. There are great systems out there, I'd prefer to spend <4K if that is realistic.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Spinner]

Hello Jim, my experience is with mostly Garmin equipment. I have had no trouble with it, and have 2 Garmin chartplotters and Garmin radar, plus Vesper AIS transponder, ICOM VHF, Maretron instrumentation, plus a completely independent PC-based Coastal Explorer system. This combination gives me a helm with three screens: 1 Garmin on either side plus the large screen in the center for Coastal Explorer. I use the CE system to display a large scale chart, and the two Garmins to display radar overlay on one, and just close-in charting on the other.

On my previous boat, I used the Marine Atlas chartbooks to provide a large scale reference and the single Garmin to give me navigation and autopilot.

There are lots of folks here who have experience with a variety of makes of equipment, so this is just my own setup that I am pretty happy with.

In regards to cost, your goal of less than 4K wouldn’t be enough for exactly the same system, but you could get a lot of bang for your buck by installing a Coastal Explorer system, new radar, and Rose Point’s NEMO gateway so all the data works together.

 

[Jeff F]

I put a Garmin Phantom 18 and 942xs plotter on my old boat last year. Also added a new depth transducer, which provided a big bonus that I hadn't anticipated. The modern MFDs are pretty cool. I've been very happy with the system.

 

[mvweebles]

I went through this about a year ago. If a 9-inch MFD is acceptable to you, and only having one, you can stay within your budget. 12-inch displays are in the $3k range by themselves. So if you want a display at both helms, well, you're over budget. Of course, with N2K, easy to add a second display later.

If you can swing the extra money, you may want to consider a full replacement including a depth sounder transducer so you can easily integrate and customize the display.

There are fans of all the manufacturers. I ended up with Simrad and spent about $8k for the complete system, including a slightly upgraded transducer, a 12-inch display, and a pair of 9-inch displays for my bridge. It's a competitive space so all the OEMs have similar prices and features.

Two tips: I originally pinged TheHullTruth.com as they have many hardcore fishermen and are pretty savvy on electronics. Second, I bought the gear via BOE Marine in Maryland. They were very knowledgeable and helpful to recommend what I needed vs what was most expensive , and prices were decent. Found them via THT site.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[Vadim]

I had few issues with Garmin, but it was years ago. I've replaced it with Raymarine. Everything from top to bottom is Raymarine and it works great. Yes it is more expensive, but IMHO it worth every penny. I am a big fan of Raymarine autopilot and Quantum radar. MFD's, I got eS series MFD's 2 years ago for my new to me IG 36 and I love it. Every brand has cheap models, just stay away from them and you will be fine. IMHO as a system Raymarine it is very solid and hard to compete. Good luck.

 

[Redhook98]

After much research, I decided on Raymarine Axium 9 MFDs for upper and lower helms. I can add RADAR when I need to, other sensors, etc. The RADAR that is compatible is WIFI based so you only need to run a power line to the new RADAR systems. That's a nice benefit if you have ever had to run a 3/4 inch thick cable to an old0school RADAR. I used to be Garmin guy, but really like the layout, functionality and available expansion of the new Raymarines.

 

[wkearney99]

Under $4k and radar are your important factors. Radar is not cross-compatible between brands. This is your starting point. Figure out which radar system you like.

Which radar and plotter do you have now?

I greatly prefer hard-wired connections to all gear. The last thing I need is a configuration hassle with wireless keeping me from using the gear. You're only going to run the wire once vs the potential for on-going wireless shenanigans. I know, it's supposed to work, and wired doesn't guarantee there won't be other problems (lightning, etc). Decide which is important to you.

 

[Codger2]

think I need a combination Radar/GPS and would prefer something simple and dependable....... Any input would be desired, the key terms I like are simple, logical and dependable[/B]..... I'd prefer to spend <4K if that is realistic.

Sticking to your budget & system requests, I'd start with a Raymarine Axiom Pro. (Not an Axiom!) Everything else can be added later. If you want a radar, from the outset, one can be purchased for about $1,500. (I bought mine used from an electronics dealer for $1,200.)
The point is that with the Axiom Pro, you can grow your system as the budget allows but you start with an incredible MFD under $4K!

https://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-Ax...50&sprefix=raymarine+Axiom+Pro,aps,206&sr=8-3

 

[Scottwb96]

I used to be a Garmin fan, UNTIL I realized they end-of-lifed my recently purchased model and would give no support! Which is too bad, because I really like the interface on the plotter I had...
That being said, Raymarine being sold off may put what is now a great brand, behind the 8-ball in the near future.
I went FULL Raymarine electronics upgrade about 6 months ago. Quantum2 Radar (AWESOME), Axiom 9" for lower helm, real vision/down vision transducer (forgot what it's called), auto pilot, secondary control displays for upper helm. What I really liked (which most do now) is the ability to connect an Ipad/Fire Tablet to the Axiom and have all the controls/visibility as if I was at the lower helm.

Cost-wise, your budget is VERY doable (as long as you can handle the install portion yourself. Depending if you want the very latest Radar, Quantum will run ya around $1,299-$1,500... Quantum2 about $1,800-$2,000. If your patient, there are def deals to found/had. For the Axiom, I like my 9" down below, doesnt take up a ton of viewing space. You can get those for as little as ~$1,100 if you keep looking... Package deals pop up all the time for radar/plotter or multiple plotters... I also like having my Ipad up top, not only does it give me a larger screen (12.9" Ipad Pro) but also acts as a back-up should something happen to the boat network and I need GPS charts (a bit of redundancy)...
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Welcome to TF Jim,

I won't recommend a brand. However what ever brand you choose, keep it in the family. Meaning if you pick Garmin or Ray, I would suggest your MFD, radar, AIS, Auto Pilot and any other items be the same brand. It makes it easier to install (most of the time plug and play) and easier later down the road to trouble shoot.

 

[Frosty]

I went through a similar exercise last fall. For me it was space (small boat) that kept the budget reasonable. I went with two Axiom 9, Quantum radar (not Quantum 2, because that was another $1k), and both Navionics and LNC charting (LNC is cheap and I like a second opinion).

You have a lot more space on a GB42 (dream boat of mine!) and maybe two helms to consider (or maybe you don't use the flying bridge in your area). But then too, you've set a budget limit.

I'm not sure I'd say the Axiom Pro (if going Raymarine, not saying you should) is best bang for buck. I went "non pro" for space reasons, but I did check to see if I'd be missing something critical because I could have done one Pro vs. two non-pro. The main differences I noted:

1) Better depth sounder internal module (but this is for serious fishing people buying big $$ transducers, IIUC)

2) Two Raynet ports. You may not need two. You need one for hooking two MFD's together, and one for wired (vs. wireless) radar. So if you want both of those things two is a benefit. You can buy a module with five that sits separately, but it's like $250. But for a simple system, either one MFD and a wired radar, or two MFD and a wireless radar, you could go non Pro and expand later if desired.

3) Card slot on front not back. Obviously on a "built in" MFD this is a key feature. Again you can get a remote module (~$100), but for one MFD on a trunnion, maybe not a big thing.

4) Pro has knobs on unit (non-Pro is touch only). Options are nice. BUT, if your MFD is not in easy reach, you can get a separate keypad module (RMK-11, I think) for the non-Pro and put it at your fingertips. That's my plan if touch only - or the screen reach - proves to be a problem.

5) In 9" size, Pro has better screen resolution and type. Better may not be needed, but something to consider. OTOH, 12" non-pro has same screen as Pro, so that's a special case.

These were the big things I noticed. But for me the Pro was much more expensive, and I couldn't have fit two units. So I went non-Pro. The remote keyboard and/or remote card reader can be added later if desired, as can a "switch" (as they call it) that has multiple Raynet ports.

Radar:

Quantum vs. Quantum 2

Quantum is broadband vs. Magnetron. I wanted broadband because it is less power hungry, potentially less dangerous if exposed (my boat is small, someone could get "radared" if on sidedeck or foredeck and it was on), and lighter (probably no biggie for you). Quantum 2 introduced Doppler, which seems like it would be really nice because that's what shows red targets if coming toward you and green if going away. But Quantum 2 was around $2k, and I was able to get Quantum wired factory refurb for $1080. Quantum it is Side note: With Quantum 2 there is only one variant. With Quantum wireless-only was cheaper and wireless-or-wired was more. I wanted the option of wired so went that way.

So an estimate, presuming these would be available now, and not looking up each price but going by memory:

1) Axiom 9 at helm, with sonar and Navionics charts: $1500
2) Quantum radar (not Quantum 2): $1200
3) Transducer? I use a transom mount so not in your league.(My Axiom came with fancy "vision" type transducer but I use an Airmar P66 for my main data as it has what I want: Depth in feet, water temp, and speed through the water so I can deduce current). Adapter cable was around $50
4) LNC charts, if desired: $50
5) Cables, etc.: $200 (estimate)
6) Basic NMEA 2000 network backbone, extra components: I went SeatalkNG because each component comes with some of the cables, etc. and also they have small heads for routing. But you can adapt to any NMEA/Devicenet style plugs. Anyway, had to buy a few extra things (but I added autopilot too): $200

So that's around $3000. You could add another Axiom 9 screen (would not need charts model, could get sonar one for redundancy or less expensive non-sonar one -- will share charts and sonar with other Axiom 9). Or you could get just one Axiom 12. If you have space that is a really nice screen. OTOH two 9's give you some redundancy and you can split duties between them. Or maybe Quantum 2 radar would eat up the "extra" $1000.

Or go another brand of course. This was just some ideas since I recently went through it. There are many really good ways to do it nowadays. It's somewhat mind boggling compared to 20 years ago

 

[mvweebles]

FYI cable to radar on new units is smaller than a small sharpie pen. End connections are removable so very easy to run. Would advise against wifi units. You still have to run power, might as well run the ether net cable alongside.

I maintain the big cost decision is whether 9-inch display is adequate, especially for split screen viewing. If you're planning much cruising, pretty sure you won't regret going 12-inch despite the cost leap. If just weekend dawdling, 9-inch will be fine.

One of the criteria for my selection was I wanted knob input, not just touchscreen as someone else noted. If boat is underway, I find knob input more reliable and manageable than touchscreen. That alone limited my choices and I ended up with Simrad. Not an endorsement, just a statement of how I made a decisions.

Finally, you may want to ping TheHullTruth forum. They are mostly fisherman and are total geeks about stuff like this. You'll likely get better technical data to help decide between brands. For example, a recent thread on this TF forum informed me Simrad has had issues with MARPA. Had I known, I probably would have chosen differently (issue has since been resolved). But that type of info is on THT

 

[Comodave]

I really like Raymarine. Have had it in the last 4 boats. Found best price at anchorexpress.com. They saved me about $140 just on shipping over a different supplier and their prices were already lower to begin with.

 

[mvweebles]

I really like Raymarine. Have had it in the last 4 boats. Found best price at anchorexpress.com. They saved me about $140 just on shipping over a different supplier and their prices were already lower to begin with.

BOE Marine was great for me. Same story about saving a few bucks and shipping plus there was some sort of rebate and Navionics charts were included that they showed me how to delay setup to prolong the one year subscription . Their customer service was excellent. CSR even texted me some install tips on a Sunday. Nice guy - really a boat-nut.

Bottom line: Prices are ver competitive and won't vary much. But there are some really good small companies out there who are happy to assist post sale.

 

[wkearney99]

When it comes to chartplotter size, larger is never a bad thing when it comes to usefulness.

But don't fall into trap of thinking you can combine data display and charts on a larger screen. It's better to have separate gauges/displays and a smaller plotter than to try and jam it all onto one larger screen. The kind of stuff you NEED to see on gauges (engine temps, etc) deserve to be on their own. Not on a separate page on the chartplotter or relegated to some tiny databoxes around the fringes.

 

[Comodave]

When it comes to chartplotter size, larger is never a bad thing when it comes to usefulness.

But don't fall into trap of thinking you can combine data display and charts on a larger screen. It's better to have separate gauges/displays and a smaller plotter than to try and jam it all onto one larger screen. The kind of stuff you NEED to see on gauges (engine temps, etc) deserve to be on their own. Not on a separate page on the chartplotter or relegated to some tiny databoxes around the fringes.

I just put 2 12” displays in so I could have more things showing.

 

[wkearney99]

I just put 2 12” displays in so I could have more things showing.

Sure, and if you've got space and budget, it's nice. I've got a pair of 12" Furuno NavNet3D at each helm station. Flanked by four LCD displays (two B&G, two Maretron). But that's not a $4k budget.

 

[jdscott3]

Wow thanks for all the great feedback, one things apparent and that's that my budgets obviously to thin. I've looked at Garmin and found it's controls the most natural to work with, but it seems Raymarine has the most fans from this site. Thanks again everyone, I'll let you know what I decide on. I do need monitors up on the Bridge as well, seems to me the Axiom Pro is likely the way to go. I really appreciate the solid info shared, thanks so much!

 

[Moonfish]

Jim -

I'll throw the system we have into the ring. The wireless Furuno DRS4W and an iPad/iPhone with Timezero navigation app. The whole package would be around $2,500.

Furuno (in our store w/Trawler Forum discount): $995
iPad Pro 12.9" (Best Buy): $1,300
Timezero (app is free, charts for US/Canada): $90 first year, $45/yr thereafter

You can use the DRS4W and it's own wifi signal on two iOS devices at a time, so we either carry a phone or an iPad up to the flybridge (we've never had a dedicated display up there). And the radar overlays on the Timezero charts even in 3D and satellite mode. We cruise the PNW and have found this system to give us everything we need. Timezero will also display AIS info, which is an additional module for I believe $50. We plan on adding that this year.

 

[High Wire]

My next radar will have both MARPA and Doppler. I should have gone there.

 

[Frosty]

I've looked at Garmin and found it's controls the most natural to work with, but it seems Raymarine has the most fans from this site.

You may already have been doing this, but just to say don't necessarily judge by older generations of equipment if you will be buying new. My old Garmin 2010C felt totally easy to me, whereas a buddy's Raymarine E120 was endlessly frustrating Based on that I wrote off Raymarine for years.

This time around I went to a shop that carries many brands and has them set up to use (with radomes running outdoors even). I found them all to be good ("all" in my case being Simrad, Garmin, and Raymarine). My choice ended up being nudged by autopilot, available charting, and to some extent price. That's because I really did like all of the MFD interfaces. Some had a particular feature I liked better, but then another had a different one where I liked that one better, so...

 

[jimdavi]

Lots of E120 issues on a boat I used for training past weekend. Chart had a bad video driver. Training at night in the bay, blurry screen and no radar display.

Have 7612xsv dual chartplotters, reactor 40 a/p, AIS, 24xhd Radar. All works flawlessly and love the AIS integrated in radar and plotter. Very intuitive to use.

Have on-line chatted Garmin a couple of time to get questions, satisfied both times.

 

[Frosty]

I don't think I can edit my previous post (and I didn't want to sound like a heavy handed pitch for what I chose), but just to be clear I went for Raymarine this time around. At least to my sense of intuitive, I liked it as well as the others (meaning they all had a few nits, but also all seemed pretty easy to use). My choice could have stayed the same - or gone another way - depending on my helm space, other systems on the boat, etc.

But I never would have said this based on equipment I used 10-15 years ago vs. what is available now.

 

[Dougcole]

Another vote for the Garmin 942XS and the phantom 18 radar. West Marine offers this package for $2,300. I installed it plus a second 942XS MFD at my upper helm about two years ago. You can get the two MFDs and the radar and almost hit your $4K budget. They have worked flawlessly for me.



I did quite a bit of research before I purchased, and frankly, if you are going to stay in a 9" display (which is the biggest I could fit at my helm) the advantages of their more expensive models are hard to discern and don't seem to me to be worth the giant jump in price. Going up to 12" means a lot more money, and I feel like you get more out of two nines than one twelve.


I've had minor issues networking the two screens together. Most things network fine, but a few don't. The most frustrating one is that I have to enter waypoints into each MFD indvidually. Garmin told me that this could be fixed with a network box (I think it's about $500) but I haven't installed one yet.


The wifi feature is nice as well. I hardly ever (like twice in 8 years) run my boat from the lower helm, so I've just got a really basic standalone 5" gps/sounder combo down there with no radar. But now I can connect to the network with my ipad and use it for radar (or anything else) at the lower helm.


I did the install myself, and Garmin's tech support was super helpful.



I agree that you can't really make an assessment of companies based on 10 plus year old systems compared to new. My boat had vintage 2005 Raymarine electronics on it when I bought it in 2013. It was OK for as old as it was, but upgrading to new is like an entirely new world. I have always used Garmin on my other boats, so the decision of Garmin over Ray was pretty easy for me. That said I looked at Raymarine's similar package and it was nice as well.

 

[wkearney99]

I wouldn't say Raymarine has the most fans. I've had them in the past and disliked their constant efforts to tweak industry standards in their own proprietary fashion. For no reason other than to lock customers into their 'ecosystem' of products. But then other manufacturers have also played that game from time to time. But we all buy so few of these systems and have so little exposure to others that it's hard to bring a lot of experience to the table. And boat magazines have paid more attention to advertiser dollars than factual analysis.

What's concerned me more has been Raymarine's long-term stability, even more so now that FLIR is shopping around to sell them. This gets countered by Garmin's tendency to "acquire and extinguish" various product lines. Yet both companies continue to thrive, so...

Me I've got Furuno gear and it's been pretty darn reliable. That and their service/support folks have never failed to effectively address any questions I've had, even with me not being the first owner of the gear (and it's well out of warranty). Others likewise have shared similar support and service stories. But I'm in no rush to run out and replace it. If it ain't broke... as the saying goes.

 

[wkearney99]

I've an 1981 GB 42 Classic, the Radar is probably original, the GPS plotter is about 4 years old but a cheepo that I don't like.

Let's circle back to this. What do you have in the boat now? What make/model of gear? The radar, it's display, the plotter AND whatever other sensors are connected to it.

I ask this because there's pros and cons to any number of upgrades, but a lot hinges on how much of the existing gear is going to remain.

Many folks here have experience with trying to leverage old hardware by using various bridges or adapters. There's been a LOT of mixed results. Some stuff works, some outright does NOT, some exposes that other gear has bigger faults than expected, etc. I'm sure there's a few heads nodding in agreement, ready to share horror stories.

So what've you got in there now?

 

[Beaverlake]

We went with a single Axiom non-pro 12” and Quantum 2. I find anything less than 12” to be too small for these old eyes. Sometimes I rue having only a touchscreen but in our pilothouse and on a GB lower helm I think it’s not too difficult to brace yourself in sloppy conditions so you can manage finger placement.

On the flybridge we use the Ray capability to mirror the display AND control the main unit. Much less expensive than a second MFD. Used 3rd and 4th gen iPads are inexpensive and adding a Dual GPS puck is $50. Sometimes I run Navionics on the iPad instead of or in addition to the MFD. since you live in the PacNW like we do now would be a good time to add a class B or B+ AIS unit. I take comfort knowing that I can be seen by commercial craft in our oft-visually-challenged waters.

Yes, there is the occasional connection glitch between the iPad and the Axiom (seldom) and once in every 30 or 40 start ups the MFD can’t see the radar but repowering the radar once fixes it every time (wireless connection, pulling cable for the arch to the pilothouse on a 4788 is not for the faint of heart). Probably a start up sequence thing that I haven’t diagnosed.

So $4k might be a tad light, but if you don’t really need fancy whole boat integration, a newer transducer, etc I think you and your son can get the job done for something close to your target.

 

[rsn48]

I have posted this video before, it is Jeff Cote at the Vancouver boat show of 2017. Even though it is 3 years old now, the principles are the same. One of his discussions is simple versus complex:

 

[jdscott3]

I really dislike electronics, so without going down to the boat and looking I don't even remember what I have. I do know one thing, the radar is an antique and the GPS is worthless to me. I plan to replace both. The VHF is rather new with AIS and works quite well so I will likely keep that. Sorry about the lack of info, if I get down to the boat this week I'll post what I have. Regards - Jim

 

[STB]

I'm a big fan of OpenCPN. External, weatherproof touch displays can be had for about $300. And a computer to put behind it for about the same.