Anchor Chain Noise

[firehoser75]

Has anyone come up with a method that will either eliminate or reduce noise from an all chain rode?
Background: We use an all chain rode (unless anchoring in very deep water when we have to go into the rope portion of our total rode), and to take the stress off of the windlass, we use a "U" shaped chain hook that has attachment points for 2 lines (so it is a bridle with a single chain hook). The bridle is cleated off to port and starboard bow cleats so it does not go over the bow roller. After 2 seasons with this setup, the hook has not accidentally "fallen off", so all is good there. However, we often hear a fairly loud noise in the forward berth (master cabin) as the boat moves even in a relatively calm anchorage where tidal current is the reason for the movement! I am a light sleeper, and this happens enough that I often move to the salon to sleep. Very annoying
I am not sure if the noise comes from the chain hook attachment, the chain dragging over a rock in the mud bottom, or from some other cause, but I find it hard to believe that I almost always find the one rock down there (if that is the most likely cause).
So, just wondering what other boaters have found to solve or help with this issue.
Thanks,
Tom

 

[gsholz]

Definitely the chain dragging over rocks. Even with an anchor bridle that takes the load off the chain, the chain links are still touching and transmitting the sound. The bridle eliminates only the noise over the anchor roller and helps with scope.

 

[tozz]

Could be rocks or chain on chain if you don't back down and lay the chain out on the bottom. Could end up in a pile maybe? You have a pic of your setup? Chain secure in the roller? dropping enough chain down to create slack on chain and all the pressure has been transferred to the legs of the bridle?

 

[menzies]

After you add the bridle/snubber do you then drop a section of chain down "behind" the attachment point so that the chain is just hanging loose?

 

[Maerin]

After you add the bridle/snubber do you then drop a section of chain down "behind" the attachment point so that the chain is just hanging loose?

^^^ This ...

We anchor a LOT. We use a chain hook that has a nylon lead to each hawse cleat as a bridle. The chain comes from the anchor to the hook, then has a loop hanging down over the hook, then the chain rises to the bow roller and the winch. Occasionally in calm water when the boat moves around, the looped chain travels against itself and makes noise. I found that rigging a tie back just under the bow roller on the section of chain that comes up to the boat from the hook- changes the geometry just enough to prevent the chain from rubbing on itself. It's an extra line to rig, but it effectively stops the rattling. In stronger current or wind, it's not an issue since the chain isn't hanging straight down from the bridle.

 

[Lepke]

I have a long single 1" nylon bridle I tie to the windlass. I let out the bridle line to about the water line (about 7' from the bow roller) and let out chain for a loop that goes below the water line. I don't seem to get chain noise. In a heavy swell or strong wind I get nylon stretching noises.

 

[Comodave]

We have a chain snubber that is like the OPs. Have not noticed any chain noise at anchor but we do sleep in the aft cabin.

 

[koliver]

Tom:

Releasing enough chain so there is a bight of chain hanging down at least 1 ft from the boat side of the hook usually is enough to eliminate the Gronch. I use a hook similar to yours.

 

[firehoser75]

^^^ This ...

We anchor a LOT. We use a chain hook that has a nylon lead to each hawse cleat as a bridle. The chain comes from the anchor to the hook, then has a loop hanging down over the hook, then the chain rises to the bow roller and the winch. Occasionally in calm water when the boat moves around, the looped chain travels against itself and makes noise. I found that rigging a tie back just under the bow roller on the section of chain that comes up to the boat from the hook- changes the geometry just enough to prevent the chain from rubbing on itself. It's an extra line to rig, but it effectively stops the rattling. In stronger current or wind, it's not an issue since the chain isn't hanging straight down from the bridle.

Thanks for the suggestion Steve! Using the "extra" line, do I need to "take the weight of the chain loop" onto the line (chain loop between the bow roller and where the chain hook attaches)?
As far as the questions asked by other posters:
Yes we start backing down on our anchor shortly after the anchor is on the bottom. We lower the anchor using the windlass, not by just "letting her go". We let out enough chain after the bridle is on to ensure that all the weight is on the bridle and there is a loop of chain hanging from the hook. We also "set our anchor" (gently and gradually) by ensuring that we back down enough that the chain "comes out of the water" and once set, we still back down in gear for a minute or so to ensure we are not dragging and are well set. Sorry, I don't have any photos of my setup, but it is actually pretty simple with a line running from the "u" shaped anchor hook up to bow cleats on each side of the boat creating a "Y" shape if looking from the anchor back to the boat with the anchor hook usually being underwater by several feet.

Next year, I may experiment using a single line attaching with an icicle hitch to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the responses, and if anyone has more to add, great always open to ideas.
Thanks again,
Tom

 

[caltexflanc]

Sounds like our set up.I liked the "lazy loop" behind the chain plate to extend several feet below the water surface. That added additional weight for the boat to lift as it came back, for one thing. No one in the forward cabin complained of chain noise, though in a blow you could sometimes hear the line stretch. In our aft master stateroom, of course, it was silence.

 

[Briney Bug]

We seem to get noise only when the boat changes position and the chain that is lying on the bottom has crossed over itself. If the boat reverses and pulls the chain off itself, the noise goes away. If we get tired of hearing it, we could start the engine and pull the chain straight. This gets rid of the noise unless the boat again changes position and the chain lying on the bottom crosses over itself again. While it is happening, we usually just accept it.
Rudy Sechez

 

[sunchaser]

As already noted, forward berth sleeping is noisier. Do you find less noise in a muddy or sandy bottom like Newcastle Is or Tribune Bay vs say Desolation areas which are more glacier scoured?

I've found success when hearings aids are removed. Finally, a benefit to growing older!

 

[cafesport]

Once you’ve isolated your chain from all metal to metal contacts the only thing that can make that noise is the chain itself. Sometimes the chain will get a half twist in it from a tide or wind shift. I’ve also seen three strand snubbers wind themselves into the chain bight making considerable racket on boats near us on windy days.

 

[Shrew]

It happens. I don't know that there is anything you can do about. It's kind of like waves lapping on the hull. Or in windy conditions, waves banging on the hull. You just have to get used to it.

I would just persevere. More exposure over time and your mind should start to tune out those noises. I would suggest you stop moving to an alternate bed and force yourself to be exposed to it. Do this long enough and you sit awake noticing its absence.

 

[eheffa]

U

Hi,


We have the same boat (Nordic Tug 37)



I found a relatively easy fix...

I added a length of stretchy rubber (an Anchor ‘Shockle’) to our Mantus Bridle. (between the chain hook and the end of the bridle.) This has largely eliminated the transfer of most of this anchor chain noise into our master stateroom.



Getting rid of the Chine slap was a lot more work.





-evan


NT 37-148
Tugaway

 

[BobMc]

I've always assumed that the noise we hear once in a great while, similar to what you describe, is caused by the boat touching the chain as the tidal current changes. Still believe that is probably the cause since I cannot imagine how sound from chain dragging over a rock could travel up the chain, through the "loop," over the bow roller, down the hawse, and into the boat in such a way as it would produce a sound in the boat. There's a lot of scope out that becomes very loose and dangles from the bow pulpit as the boat is moving over the anchor with the tidal current change.

 

[eheffa]

Hi BobMc


In our local waters ( WestCoast BC) with lots of rock around, the grinding chain noise is indeed transmitted through the chain. It's loud and intermittent enough to make a mess of one's attempts to sleep. It is not from the chain striking the boat. A nylon stretchy bridle will attenuate the sound somewhat but insulating the boat from the sound is a challenge.



As above, our solution of adding a heavy duty shockle to the end of the bridle has worked very well.


-evan
NT 37-148
Tugaway

 

[FlyWright]

I also use a Shockle with LineGrabbers to relieve pressure on the gypsy and eliminate many noises. I use the LineGrabbers between my pulpit cleat and a chain link. They're spec'd for up to 2000 lbs.

 

[CapnCrunch]

I found that using a 6-to-1 scope of rode tied off with @10' of 1" nylon snubber attached to the chain with a rolling hitch works well. About the only time I get any chain noise is when the wind picks up or shifts significantly which is probably a good time to get up and check things out anyway.

 

[BrianSmith]

Our boat waggles (sails?) back and forth a good bit at anchor in a brisk wind. The chain going from side to side over the bow roller makes a noise we can hear in the midships master cabin. (Mantus chain hook, two snubber lines thru forward hawse holes to cleats, nice long loop in the chain btwn bow roller and chain hook.)

We got a 2' long length of heavy duty rubber hose with an ID large enough to easily go around the chain. Split it open lengthwise. Once the chain is played out, we slip this hose over the chain and slide it down so the chain isn't actually in contact with the bow roller. Helped a LOT with the chain-on-roller noise!

 

[Nepidae]

Thanks for the suggestion Steve! Using the "extra" line, do I need to "take the weight of the chain loop" onto the line (chain loop between the bow roller and where the chain hook attaches)?
As far as the questions asked by other posters:
Yes we start backing down on our anchor shortly after the anchor is on the bottom. We lower the anchor using the windlass, not by just "letting her go". We let out enough chain after the bridle is on to ensure that all the weight is on the bridle and there is a loop of chain hanging from the hook. We also "set our anchor" (gently and gradually) by ensuring that we back down enough that the chain "comes out of the water" and once set, we still back down in gear for a minute or so to ensure we are not dragging and are well set. Sorry, I don't have any photos of my setup, but it is actually pretty simple with a line running from the "u" shaped anchor hook up to bow cleats on each side of the boat creating a "Y" shape if looking from the anchor back to the boat with the anchor hook usually being underwater by several feet.

Next year, I may experiment using a single line attaching with an icicle hitch to see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the responses, and if anyone has more to add, great always open to ideas.
Thanks again,
Tom

My guess is that you are hearing the lack of centenary action of the chain because you don't have the loop in the chain after you have the chain set.

We have a 1" Y snubber with a chain hook. Rarely use it. I also have 2 big Samson posts on the bow. Our windlass, a Lofrans Tigress, also has a cleat on it.

You are using whatever setup you have to take tension off of the windlass. You do NOT want the windlass to hold the anchor chain tension, unless you want a new windlass.

Mostly what I do is take a dock line, we use 5/8" and attach a big box hook at the end, we have 3/8" chain. Once we get the anchor set, I attach the hook to a link and let out a bit more chain and tie the dock line to the windlass cleat, then I let our about 5-6' more so there is a loop of chain hanging down lower than where the chain is attached to the hook. The line is now taking up the strain on the chain to the windlass.

IF you are going to use a bow cleat then you will need a Y so you can tie off to both cleats to keep the chain centered on the pulpit. Otherwise the boat could saw back & forth in the elements.

What this does is provide some ability for centenary action as the bow might move up & down or as the tide rises or falls.

IF for some reason we were out with some bad weather coming, not likely, as we would head for a marina, then I would break out the big snubber and tie off at the Samson posts. The rest of the setup would be the same except that I would drop the hook to below the waterline and then the loop lower than that.

Any questions, let me know.

 

[Hawkeye]

+1. Isolate chain/roller contact with a length of hose or or other chafing gear.

 

[firehoser75]

Any Chance of a Photo

Hi Evan (eheffa):
I think I saw your boat tied to the breakwater at Shearwater this summer. We were tied to the dock, but never got the chance to talk with you.
Anyway, I am hoping that you can post a photo of what you are describing, as I am not 100% sure I am envisioning it correctly. If that is working for you, I am definitely interested in trying it out! This summer, several times the noise was just too much for me. Way worse than the bow slap.
Thanks,
Tom
NT 37-068
Pilitak

Hi,


We have the same boat (Nordic Tug 37)



I found a relatively easy fix...

I added a length of stretchy rubber (an Anchor ‘Shockle’) to our Mantus Bridle. (between the chain hook and the end of the bridle.) This has largely eliminated the transfer of most of this anchor chain noise into our master stateroom.



Getting rid of the Chine slap was a lot more work.





-evan


NT 37-148
Tugaway

 

[dhays]

We got a 2' long length of heavy duty rubber hose with an ID large enough to easily go around the chain. Split it open lengthwise. Once the chain is played out, we slip this hose over the chain and slide it down so the chain isn't actually in contact with the bow roller. Helped a LOT with the chain-on-roller noise!

Good idea. My chain noise is caused by the chain-roller interaction as well, much for the same reasons. This last trip some experimentation found that using unequal bridle lengths cut down a lot on the sailing at anchor.

 

[IRENE]

Roller Noise

Our primary roller has a bit of side-to-side play. When it moves under tension (e.g. chain with no snubber or snubber itself), it make a significant resonating noise through the boat. I now have a bondo spreader, which I use as a wedge, between the end of the anchor roller and the channel it is mounted in (term?). When the roller is not moving around, the noise is eliminated.

We use a piece of three strand and a rolling hitch for our snubber.

 

[eheffa]

Hi Evan (eheffa):
I think I saw your boat tied to the breakwater at Shearwater this summer. We were tied to the dock, but never got the chance to talk with you.
Anyway, I am hoping that you can post a photo of what you are describing, as I am not 100% sure I am envisioning it correctly. If that is working for you, I am definitely interested in trying it out! This summer, several times the noise was just too much for me. Way worse than the bow slap.
Thanks,
Tom
NT 37-068
Pilitak

Hi Tom,


Yes, we were in Shearwater tied to the breakwater when you were there. I came by your boat in the dinghy to say "Hi" but you were away at the time. Maybe another time we can cross paths and have a chat...



Here are a few lousy iPhone pics of our setup:

https://eheffa.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p3073595853.jpg





In use at Codfish Bay (Jedediah Island). I let out enough chain to have slack in the portion between the Bridle and bow roller so there is no tension on the roller at all. The shockle seems to do a reasonable job of absorbing the sound energy.





-evan

 

[firehoser75]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. Sounds like I am not the only one who has experienced "chain noise" while at anchor. Some excellent suggestions that I will try out next season, like better insulating the chain where it will "still" contact the roller even with the snubber out.
Evan, your setup looks interesting. A couple of questions if I could. One, is your bridle really one line, with the second "leg or side" just tied on using either a rolling or icicle hitch, or is it all somehow "spliced" together? Secondly, what kind and size of anchor are you using (Is it a Vulcan)? I am considering moving up one size to a 25 kg anchor. My boat came with a 20 kg Bruce, but I am currently using a 20 kg Rocna.
Thanks again,
Tom

 

[dhays]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. Sounds like I am not the only one who has experienced "chain noise" while at anchor. Some excellent suggestions that I will try out next season, like better insulating the chain where it will "still" contact the roller even with the snubber out.
Evan, your setup looks interesting. A couple of questions if I could. One, is your bridle really one line, with the second "leg or side" just tied on using either a rolling or icicle hitch, or is it all somehow "spliced" together? Secondly, what kind and size of anchor are you using (Is it a Vulcan)? I am considering moving up one size to a 25 kg anchor. My boat came with a 20 kg Bruce, but I am currently using a 20 kg Rocna.
Thanks again,
Tom

From Evans photos he is using a bridle with a Y configuration, two legs coming together at an eye and the shockle connects that eye to the chain grabber.


If you are considering upgrading your anchor, you might want to give Ground Tackle Marine a call and inquire about the Sarca Excel #5. They are located in Victoria. I've got a #6 that I've used on my boat and have been very happy with it.

 

[eheffa]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. Sounds like I am not the only one who has experienced "chain noise" while at anchor. Some excellent suggestions that I will try out next season, like better insulating the chain where it will "still" contact the roller even with the snubber out.
Evan, your setup looks interesting. A couple of questions if I could. One, is your bridle really one line, with the second "leg or side" just tied on using either a rolling or icicle hitch, or is it all somehow "spliced" together? Secondly, what kind and size of anchor are you using (Is it a Vulcan)? I am considering moving up one size to a 25 kg anchor. My boat came with a 20 kg Bruce, but I am currently using a 20 kg Rocna.
Thanks again,
Tom

Hi Tom,


The first question is easy.


We have all chain Rode 115m of 5/16" HT chain.

We are using a Mantus Bridle with the Mantus Chain Hook (Small )
https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-bridle/


It works well but it is a little long and could be shorter and work just as well - particularly with the shockle in the system. I originally had it deployed with the terminal eyes around the midship cleats running it forward but found that fiddly and prone to creaking noise against the hull where it made contact. We've gone to a slightly less elegant but easy to deploy configuration as shown here:

I could shorten the whole thing perhaps but this is working & I have other projects to keep me busy...


As for the anchor question:

Short answer:
It's a Spade 140 (25 kg)

Long Answer: (sure to bring out religious fervor)
We had a Rocna 25 Kg but weren't that impressed with it. It was prone to not setting in weeds and we had at least one stormy night where I was sure it had let go and eventually reset. (Thanks goodness for anchor alarms.)



After a lot of reading (See Attainable Adventure Cruising for a good summary) and watching the Panope Anchor Setting torture test videos, I became convinced that we probably did have a breakout with the Rocna with a 180 degree change in pull.

We sold the Rocna and got the Spade. The Spade sets much more quickly for us and generally inspires more confidence.

(If you take Steve's results from his SV Panope's testing as valid, the Mantus, Sarca, or Spade anchors all had very good performance in setting and re-setting. The Manson and Rocna - not so much.)

I hope this answers your query.

Good luck with your configuration.

-evan

 

[Nepidae]

It would seem to me that those who are experiencing 'chain noise' have 1 thing in common....the chain is on the roller and has tension on it.

In other words, the anchor with chain rode is deployed from the windlass, set on the bottom and then people go get a Sundowner.

IF that is the case, then that is why you are getting chain noise.

As I and others have said, the chain needs to be snubbed by a bridle or if your windlass is like the 1 in Evan's post, it looks like a Lofrans Tigress, then a single line with a hook, Mantus makes a nice 1 but I use a big box store hook, you can tie off to that.

IF you take the strain off of the chain with 1 of these items, no more chain noise.

The technique has been explained previously in this thread so I won't reiterate it again.

Suffice it to say, take the strain off the chain, no more noise.