Trying to figure out Vertical Windlass chain routing

[roedel]

Hello,

i recently bought a 43" Columbia that came with an old Maxwell Nilson vertical Windlass.
The Windlass works fine but i cannot figure out how to properly route the chain so the windlass is able to transport the chain when hauling in the anchor.
In my case the deck pipe sits directly behind the windlass at 6 o'clock , all other configurations i have seen in the marina have the deck pipe sitting at around 11 o'clock, so the chain can partially wrap around the unit and therefore be conveyed by the winch.

What am i missing here? Any advice is highly appreciated.

 

[rgano]

That arrangement is just, well, duh.

 

[jungpeter]

Hi roedel.

Is your anchor rode all chain? If so, your windlass is useless as-mounted. If I recall, the Columbia 43's did not come OEM with a windlass at all (I used to work for Columbia Yachts about the time the 43 came out, but that was MANY years ago!) I suspect that someone added your windlass after purchase simply as a warping drum for a line anchor rode. Given you have no fairlead nor chain stripper into your anchor locker as-configured, you will have to replace your existing windlass with a proper vertical drum/gypsy/stripper/deck pipe if you want an all-chain anchor rode. Unfortunately, a not inexpensive proposition.

You can, obviously, continue to use your existing installation with a line rode, and simply man-handle the chair portion of the rode as it comes over the rail. A typical scenario for many with rope/chain rodes. And, you may get lucky and find another surplus Maxwell Nilsson windlass that includes the stripper and deck pipe that you can salvage to suit.

Regards,

Pete

 

[roedel]

Hi Pete, thank you so much! I am not that experienced with saiboats over 10 feet :- so this whole anchor topic is new to me. I already had my doubts about the setup, glad to have clarity now.
Very interesting that you worked for Columbia, i am very interested in any stories you might have to tell about the 43. Mine is the MK2 with rudder skeg and fiberglass keel.

 

[sunchaser]

Hello,

i recently bought a 43" Columbia that came with an old Maxwell Nilson vertical Windlass.
The Windlass works fine but i cannot figure out how to properly route the chain so the windlass is able to transport the chain when hauling in the anchor.
In my case the deck pipe sits directly behind the windlass at 6 o'clock , all other configurations i have seen in the marina have the deck pipe sitting at around 11 o'clock, so the chain can partially wrap around the unit and therefore be conveyed by the winch.

What am i missing here? Any advice is highly appreciated.

Years go I had the exact same setup with a vertical windlass but with all rope rode except the last 30 or so feet was chain. The rope did 3 wraps around the windlass and I manually tailed it as it came aboard. The anchor locker was deep so I hand dropped it down once all the line was pulled aboard. It worked fine on a 36' vessel on the Mississippi in shallow water.

 

[SteveK]

Years go I had the exact same setup with a vertical windlass but with all rope rode except the last 30 or so feet was chain. The rope did 3 wraps around the windlass and I manually tailed it as it came aboard. The anchor locker was deep so I hand dropped it down once all the line was pulled aboard. It worked fine on a 36' vessel on the Mississippi in shallow water.

did the chain also do a wrap. I can see that since it is being hand fed. Let the chain wrap 3/4, stop winch, undo the rode and carry on with one wrap.

 

[jungpeter]

Hi Pete, thank you so much! I am not that experienced with saiboats over 10 feet :- so this whole anchor topic is new to me. I already had my doubts about the setup, glad to have clarity now.
Very interesting that you worked for Columbia, i am very interested in any stories you might have to tell about the 43. Mine is the MK2 with rudder skeg and fiberglass keel.

Hi roedel. Sorry, no stories specifically for the Columbia 43, as that line of boats came out of the custom shop, and I worked in the production shop. Same building, different area. I do remember that a friend of mine gave me grief when I let on that Columbia had destroyed the wood plug used to create the hull mold for the 43, instead of selling it to him to turn into a real boat! FYI, Columbia routinely destroyed the plugs instead of repurposing them as real boats, as they were not at all structurally sound as-built. Common practice throughout the boat building industry, particularly in those olden days with wood plugs.

In general, the "custom shop" turned out beautiful boats like the 50, 52, and 57 footers. The ones out of the "production shop", not so much. Very much price-point boats. And Bill Tripp (the designer of record for many of the Columbia line) was great at designing boats, but got caught in the transition from CCA-rule racer-cruisers to IOR pure race boats. Bill's boats went fast, had great interior design, but rated poorly. So as a designer, he was rapidly overrun by folks like Doug Peterson and Ron Holland, amongst others. Their boats also went like stink, but they rabidly exploited the rating rules as well.

And another bit of trivia, Bill's son, Bill Jr. worked for Doug Peterson in the mid 70's, going on to be a wonderful naval architect in his own right.

Ah yes, the days of the "production racer-cruiser". RIP.

Regards,

Pete

 

[jgwinks]

Wow. The picture looks almost exactly like the 1969 Columbia 36 I sold last year! Mine had the windlass further aft and the hause pipe forward and to port. Anchor, roller, cleat, and even the deck paint are exactly l like mine. Anyway, as said above you can't self store the chain with that drum, and it's meant for a mostly rope rode. If you swap it for a proper windlass you'll have to mount it where the hause pipe now is to get the chain to fall into the locker correctly. The existing one is way too far forward and the locker is only a few inches deep underneath it. Then you'll have to plug the old windlass holes. Sounds like a pretty major job.

 

[roedel]

Agree, i was thinking about mounting a new horizontal windlass, but as you said there might not be propper space below deck at that location.

I am now playing with the idea to machine a extra idler pulley that i would mount at about 9 o'clock of the windlass (blue sketch). That way the windlass should be able properly transport the chain while and i can use the rest of the configuration as is, just re-route the chain around that extra pulley.... not pretty but hey....

 

[KnotYet]

Agree, i was thinking about mounting a new horizontal windlass, but as you said there might not be propper space below deck at that location.

I am now playing with the idea to machine a extra idler pulley that i would mount at about 9 o'clock of the windlass (blue sketch). That way the windlass should be able properly transport the chain while and i can use the rest of the configuration as is, just re-route the chain around that extra pulley.... not pretty but hey....

I would explore removing the windlass, plugging that hole and placing it where it
can be used correctly and feed into the chain locker. If the new deck hole placement
would not be optimum then the windlass can be elevated on a base or bracket above
the deck. That is, as long as the windlass is in good enough condition to keep using.

 

[jungpeter]

Agree, i was thinking about mounting a new horizontal windlass, but as you said there might not be propper space below deck at that location.

I am now playing with the idea to machine a extra idler pulley that i would mount at about 9 o'clock of the windlass (blue sketch). That way the windlass should be able properly transport the chain while and i can use the rest of the configuration as is, just re-route the chain around that extra pulley.... not pretty but hey....

Hi roedel.

Well, you don't necessarily have to mount a horizontal windlass. There are a plethora of vertical windlasses on the market that would work, and probably be way more suitable for the foredeck of a sailboat.

Regarding your idea to modify what you've got: Ooohhhh, no no. Bad idea. The engineering design that goes into the design of a safe and effective anchor windlass is not trivial. Everything from the tolerances on the gypsy to match the chain size, the chain wrap to allow the gypsy to develop it's rated pull without slippage, the stripper placement and size to effectively strip the chain away from the gypsy when it's under load and/or full of mud and muck, the location and size of the hawsehole to feed the chain to the locker below, etc. etc. all have to be developed IN CONCERT to make the windass functional. And safe. The Maxwell windlass currently aboard your boat clearly is lacking some of those as-designed features, which seems to indicate someone butched up the initial installation, probably from a salvaged windlass, to save a few bucks.

Don't compound the issue by trying to further butch up a fix using a turning block, in an attempt to duplicate a functional vertical windlass. This thing has to carry a significant load, both in recovering the anchor, but also in anchoring situations where the load is carried by the windlass. Also don't underestimate the difficulty in stripping the chain from the windlass under load. Most likely, in your sketched example, upon recovery the chain will continue to cling to the gypsy, rotate through 360 deg, and jam itself against the standing leg of the chain. And it will take an inordinate amount of tugging on the running leg via your turning block to dislodge it. And I wouldn't want my hands down in THAT mess when it lets go. I value my fingers too much.

And you never did answer my original question-do you have an all-chain rode? If your answer is yes, you have little choice but to replace your existing windlass with a proper (and complete) unit, located to deposit the chain into your anchor locker.

And, I presume you've contacted Maxwell Marine for assistance and advice?

Regards,

Pete

 

[roedel]

Hi Pete, thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it. Yes its all chain. After careful consideration i decided to give the pulley idea a try, already ordered some nylon pulleys in different sizes to experiment with.
I will ill keep this thread updated.

 

[sunchaser]

If you choose to go with a pulley insure the area under the pulley has been suitably re-enforced. It will see loads beyond what the plain decking was designed to do.

Have you contacted Maxwell to insure they still support the windlass with things like motor, solenoid, seals, retainer clips, gears etc. ? Sitting unloved on the fore deck for awhile may well be a hint for some detailed TLC no matter what the future rode change geometry may result in. Best to find that out now.

 

[roedel]

yes, if the trial with pvc pulleys is successful i will mount the windlass and mew metal pulley on a stainless steel plate. The pulley will be adjustable so i can always use the anchor without windlass, the way it is right now.
I am not concerned about spare parts, there are many used units out there...

 

[AKDoug]

I would explore removing the windlass, plugging that hole and placing it where it
can be used correctly and feed into the chain locker. If the new deck hole placement
would not be optimum then the windlass can be elevated on a base or bracket above
the deck. That is, as long as the windlass is in good enough condition to keep using.

This one, or move the deck hole. When I mounted my horizontal windlass I had no windlass, but the chain pipe had to be relocated. I built a box to mount the windlass on, with the motor inside the box instead of inside the chain locker so it stays pristinely dry and clean. The anchor rode fed down through a chain pipe through the box into the locker.

 

[SteveK]

Hi Pete, thanks for all the advice, really appreciate it. Yes its all chain. After careful consideration i decided to give the pulley idea a try, already ordered some nylon pulleys in different sizes to experiment with.
I will ill keep this thread updated.

Since that setup requires hand over hand feeding the chain down the hole, have you tried one loop of chain on the winch. I think that would work.