Retirement Vision

[cyranog]

Hi All,
First time posting here. I plan to retire within the next 16 months or so, and my wife and I plan sell the house, vehicles, and most of our possessions. I didn't have a vision at all for retirement until I saw an ad for a trawler. I showed it to her and said how about this for retirement? She said let's do it! Although I won't be buying that particular trawler, we now have a vision for retirement and it can't come too soon.
Our plan is to take a couple of weeklong seamanship courses over the next year, buy a trawler, trial run it for a few months, do the Great Loop, then Bahamas, and have a live-aboard lifestyle. We're reading/watching everything that we can about the lifestyle in the meantime.

Here are my trawler specs:
- 35-45 ft
- full/semi displacement
- single engine/low horsepower
- double berths
- no older than 1998
- boat purchase budget is $110,000-$200,000

My questions:
- should I include older boats in my search?
- Max number of hours on the engine?
- engines to avoid?

I'm liking the following models:
- Heritage East
- Mariner (38 Sundeck/Orient)
- Mainship (370/390)
- Marine Trader (Europa)
- Island Packet PY

Any comments/recommendations will be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[Kingston Mariner]

My wife and I are moving forward with a similar plan, only we will be part time cruising. It all comes down to your personal financial situation and risk tolerance. More challenging in many ways if you have to sell your home etc. and shoestring your effort vs. selling to minimize your lifestyle and re-allocate your assets. For us, we could lose the boat and easily take the financial hit, one reason we own an older less expensive boat. In my endeavors I try to keep the odds of success in my favor.

 

[Bill V]

Couple questions. Do you have family you'll be planning to see in retirement? Many Loopers take 2 years to complete the Loop, wintering their boat someplace and returning in the spring to continue the trip. What is your plan here? If you plan on becoming live aboards you may want something closer to 45' so as to have amenities such as washer/dryer, freezer and adequate storage. For me there is no better engine then a Cummins.

 

[ktdtx]

Walk the docks, go to "in the water" boat shows, get on as many boats as you think fit your current criteria and see the different layouts and try to envision living there.

 

[SteveK]

plan sell the house, vehicles, and most of our possessions.

Thread carefully with this one way plan.

 

[Juliet 15]

My 2 cents FWIW:
Take your time settling on a boat. It takes years to learn all the differences between boat makers, pros and cons, fiberglass types, engine mfrs and types. Many of us are on our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th boats. Following your direction you may not have the luxury of learning by buying the wrong boat 2 or 3 times. You lose money every time. So my advice would be to know what your boat really needs to do, list those out (which you've started nicely), then ruthlessly compare it to every boat you see. Over the next 16 months I feel you should spend as much time as possible looking at Yachtworld, doing searches, reading every ad that has a boat mildly close to your requirements, and then researching every term, mfr, and engine you see there. Every term you don't understand, fuel and water tank sizes, layouts, etc. I learned the most valuable things by reading Yachtworld ads. Doing so produced questions that I needed to learn answers to. I thot I fell in love with THE boat probably 20 times throughout the learning process. Over a 3 year period the right vessel slowly surfaced and became the clear "right choice" for us. The only choice, in fact, that met our requirements.

If you're not an experienced boater, you can still become a studied expert on boats, like a guy who knows the pros and cons and stats of a football or baseball player - he may not play the game, but he knows what "good" and right looks like. And it's worth it. Live without regrets. Best of luck to you.

 

[tiltrider1]

If you are not all ready a boater you are at risk of discovering that you hate boats. The most successful liveaboards are those who were boaters and decided to not go home at the end of their trip.

Down sizing is not for everyone. If your hobby is reading books you will have a higher success rate. If your hobby is wood working, skiing and camping, then space is going to be an issue.

Living on a boat is never as convenient as living in a house but for many, the trade offs are worth it.

When looking at a boat to live on you need to focus on storage. Where will the food go, the pots and pans, dishes, glasses, the TV, the clothes, shoes, coats, booze, paper towels, toiletries, bed sheets, books, charts, jewelry, computers, financial records, toys, tools, spare parts, buckets, hoses, dock lines, power cord. The list goes on.

What is the laundry plan?

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. We are on our 23rd boat now. Soon 24 hopefully. Have fun in your search. Maybe attend a TrawlerFest, you will learn a lot there and they usually have some boats to look at although who knows this year. Take some boating classes. Before you buy make sure you can get insurance since your boating history is very thin. The insurance company may require some formal training.

 

[ksanders]

If you are not all ready a boater you are at risk of discovering that you hate boats. The most successful liveaboards are those who were boaters and decided to not go home at the end of their trip.

Down sizing is not for everyone. If your hobby is reading books you will have a higher success rate. If your hobby is wood working, skiing and camping, then space is going to be an issue.

Living on a boat is never as convenient as living in a house but for many, the trade offs are worth it.

When looking at a boat to live on you need to focus on storage. Where will the food go, the pots and pans, dishes, glasses, the TV, the clothes, shoes, coats, booze, paper towels, toiletries, bed sheets, books, charts, jewelry, computers, financial records, toys, tools, spare parts, buckets, hoses, dock lines, power cord. The list goes on.

What is the laundry plan?

This is very good advice, and like many comments comes from a long time liveaboard.

 

[ksanders]

First, if you do not have other assets to use to buy a house in the future this is as so aptly put above a one way street.

If.... you are liquidating a house and mortgage and using that equity to knowing start a new lifestyle that is another story alltogether.

Many today are faced with a dilemma... be trapped by a house mortgage that forces you to work more years, or get rid of the mortgage and lead a simpler lifestyle allowing you to retire. This idea could result in you buying anything less expensive than your current house, it does not need to be a boat. The Full Time RV lifestyle comes to mind as an alternative. I have met several folks doing just that and they are from the outside happy. Some end up as state park hosts to give them something to do and make their parking spots free.

As far as the lifestyle itself you will either love it or hate it. Here are a few ideas to help with the decision.

* Do you like fixing things, and have "fix it" skills? The reason I ask is that boats are complex things and stuff is always needing worked on.

* Do you and your wife truly like new things and even a bit of danger or is one of you more hesitant than the other? This is important because when boating you are going to be caught in rough seas. This can shake up people in a primeval way.

* Are either of you "shoppers"? I say that because some people realy like to buy stuff. It becomes a habbit, and on a boat you will not have the space to accommodate that.

* Do you have strong ties to your local community, or local family and friends? In the same concept do you make friends easily? Humans are social animals. Friendships on the water are different by the nature of your constantly moving.

 

[cyranog]

Thanks. Our plan for the Loop is to stretch it over 12 months; Summer north and Winter south.

 

[AlanT]

Hi All,
Here are my trawler specs:
- 35-45 ft
- full/semi displacement
- single engine/low horsepower
- double berths
- no older than 1998
- boat purchase budget is $110,000-$200,000

My questions:
1/ should I include older boats in my search?
2/ Max number of hours on the engine?
3/ engines to avoid?

1. Yes you should include older boats if they fit your other criteria. Boats, treated right, can last a very long time. The key with ANY boat whether 23 years old (ie 1998) or older largely comes down to maintenance and use. As you look at older boats you may find that the interiors are too dated for you. At that point stop and look at boats that do not give you that feeling. By the time a boat is 20 years old its use and maintenance have a far greater impact on its desirability than its pure age - and lets not dismiss value - you will get more boat the older you go.

2. There is no good answer to this. Again it comes down to usage and maintenance. A low hours boat has not had much use, this is not good for an engine. It may have sat for years unused at some point in its life, and such an engine more than likely was not receiving regular maintenance. A good mechanical survey will tell you a lot once you narrow down your search to a single vessel.

3/ Once you narrow down your boat decision you will have only one or possibly two choices of engine so its too early for you to spend much time considering pros and cons of engines. You will find as many opinions on engines here as there are posters! Some are certainly better than others, but given that you are choosing a boat, not an engine, your best bet is to narrow down your boat search, then see what engine choices you have (if any) and at that time learn more about those specific engines.
~Alan

 

[cyranog]

Thank you; great points. We’re not tied to our current location, so we’re ready to cut loose, explore, and embrace a simpler lifestyle. Also, not a one-way street, as we have a land-based Plan B.

 

[cyranog]

We’re taking a weeklong Chapman course in July and will take the next level weeklong course this Winter/next Spring.

 

[Seevee]

Lots of good advise here....


For a live aboard, I'd absolutely look larger than smaller, especially if you want some comforts.


And, you haven't stated your boating history.... how many boats have you had, and trips longer than a weeks worth?


If not much, I could argue to do this in two steps. Get a boat for a starter boat that's easy to sell. Of what you've mentioned, the Mainship is certainly one. Very easy to own, operate and sell, however, pretty small for a live aboard. However, they are big enough to have some comforts including washer/dryer, reasonably galley, living area, etc.



Travel around for a year, visit places where there are lots of other boat, perhaps do the loop, go to trawler fests, and then buy your permanent boat.


I'm on boat no. 21, and it wouldn't be first choice as a full time live aboard... but close.... (but not my goal, either).



Unless you're very familiar with boating and have had a LOT of experience, I could argue close to impossible to pick the right boat on the first try.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

For our future full timing plans, amount of storage aboard is one of the top five considerations as we shop. Maybe top three. We charter once a year in the PNW or SE Alaska (another suggestion for you by the way, it may center your decision making a bit, yes prices can be eye watering but they are relative to the cost of purchasing) and the relative lack of inside storage on the boats we charter has been instructive.

 

[cyranog]

Retirement vision

Thanks; great points.
We’re new to the boating world, so will be as prepared as possible and take it slow.

 

[kthoennes]

Good cautionary note on the "one way" trajectory of shedding the house and as many possessions as you can, but when it comes to shedding "stuff" -- even if you decide you hate boating and want to go back to land, I don't think it ever hurts to shed mountains of stuff in life. We're not hoarders but I still feel like I'm drowning in stuff. My father had a little tin mechanical merry go round when he was a kid, clockwork. Still works and plays a song. Dad lives in a small condo in Florida so they don't have a lot of room, so he offered it to me. It's a touching item and I felt terrible turning it down, but what am I going to do with a clockwork merry go round? My mother gave me my grandmother's china set. A ton of Thanksgiving and family dinner memories at Gram's, but it's a pattern we would never choose in 10,000 years and what are we going to do with an antique china set? I would save (and maybe scan) Dad's letters and notes for the rest of my life though, that's personal, but not the stuff. I'll bet most of us drown in stuff and I think it's good to lighten your load in life, boating or otherwise.

 

[cyranog]

Retirement vision

We’re with you that! Planning on yard sales

 

[twistedtree]

Have you been out in boats at all? It sounds like you don't have any experience, which is fine, but it does suggest a few basic tests to make sure there isn't immediate transplant rejection.


The first is sea sickness. Most people are subject to it if conditions get bad, but some people are subject to it under the most mild conditions. It would be good to make sure neither of you is the later.


Second is the more cramped lifestyle on a boat. You life in a much smaller space with no room for extras, and you are often confined to that space, or it's immediate vicinity. You may not realize how much you value elbow room and being able to hop in the car and go do something until you can't.


So I think there would be a lot of value in getting on a boat or two for a few days, like via a charter, just to make sure there isn't an immediate or early transplant rejection.


Earlier someone mentioned how much of a fit-it person you are, and I think that's important too. And it's both capability, and patience. Things will be breaking all the time. If you have to get help for everything, you will be spending a lot of time waiting for other people, and will probably be spending more $$ than you expected. And if you are impatient, it might all become trying on your nerves.


When I think of people I know who dove into boating, then shortly after ran away screaming, these are the most common themes.

 

[BandB]

I'm shaking in my shoes after having read your post. What is the longest time you've ever spent with just the two of you cruising on a boat? Before you start selling and investing in a boat, do some chartering. Find a way to spend time on a boat but time when you're totally dependent on yourselves and your skills. The courses you have planned are great but don't help you with all the items breaking or with your seasickness or the loneliness being away from friends. I love boating and my wife and I are fanatics but we also both knew we loved it before we invested in it.

 

[Simi 60]

After 5 years out here we still need to go back and address the house, car and crap issue.

Terribly irresponsible of us I know but we are too busy enjoying ourselves to care.
Maybe next year.

 

[Swa]

Agree with all members' comments. I would add to consider a couple years of ownership and experience. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge and work involved with ownership. No way would I sell my house and all my things to live aboard. I love getting back home after an extended trip.*Careful your not chasing a pipe dream.

 

[Simi 60]

. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge and work involved with ownership.
.

The same could be said for home ownership

And yet so many are out here cruising who clearly have no knowledge
Money sorts their problems out........until it doesn't.

No way would I sell my house and all my things to live aboard

.

I agree, I wouldn't sell the house as that's an actual asset that can produce income

But things are just things, worthless to most.
Don't believe me? Try and sell them for anything like what you paid for them.

I love getting back home after an extended trip.

It doesn't sound like the cruising life is really for you.
We were always the opposite when we had boats that weren't up for the job, saddened by the prospect of returning to dirt and dreaming of the day when we'd get a boat that would get us out here for real, full time, not beholden to marinas for support.

 

[mvweebles]

TrawlerFest is a good suggestion as it's a few days of total immersion and many boats to see.

Your list of boats is mostly sedan style. You will have to look past the glossy pictures and get aboard boats. Often, seating is shallow and not comfortable for long term living. You'll have to decide whether a v-berth is adequate for long term. Is there adequate storage such as in the head - where will you hang towels, etc.

Topsides, Dinghy storage and deployment is important for long term use. Access to service points in engine room, etc. If you're you're water toy couple, definitely need to consider. If you're a dog owner, that's another consideration to make sure your companion can join you at the flybridge.

I have owned my Willard 36 for over 20 years. A W40 would probably be a better choice but the smaller 36 is fine for us. We could afford much more but prefer a more simple and austere boat. Trawler Forum has many voices, the most frequent lean towards larger boats that more closely emulate house-like amenities. We find those choices a distraction. You have to decide what style of cruising appeals to you. People rarely change their lifestyle significantly. If you're prone to eating out and love happy hours, you will likely spend a lot of time in marinas. That too will influence your choice of boat.

2 weeks ago, we closed on the sale of our house of 16 years. We have other options but I have to say, getting rid of all that stuff and responsibility is liberating. People often say they have more regrets about things they didn't do than did do. Last bit of guidance is the current boat market is extremely rare. Boats are typically difficult to unload, often taking years. Selling a liveaboard boat is even more difficult. Reversing your decision may not be trivial of cost free.

Good luck

Peter

 

[Rufus]

Check on insurance....might be some issues with getting coverage for a larger boat with no prior experience (if that's the case).

 

[Newtrawlerowner]

While I don't live aboard I also had the dream of doing so when I bought my 1st boat. I loved it, my wife not so much. I never did sell my house but would fly from my Denver home to Florida for a 2-3 week stretch almost every month. Costly yes but I wanted to try it before I committed. On my second boat now and do plan on doing the loop. Started planning last year and hope to start next year. Some have suggested not trying to do it in 1 year, I think that's good advice. Too much to see to be in a hurry.

My best advice is as mentioned by others. You want to be handy as there are many things that will need fixing and upgrading. Some simple others not so. I've realized that this can be an expensive way to live, something many people don't realize. Bottom cleaning, slip rental, insurance, upgrades, repairs, etc. etc. etc. And if you keep it in a hurricane zone (Texas to Massachusetts), you might want to have a hurricane plan. There is a very large thread here on annual costs. Read every response. 10% of initial cost annually is realistic. Some years less, some more. Also once you decide what you would like to buy, come back here and ask lots of questions. Also there are other forums like Face Book and others although I think this is the best I've found. Many friendly and helpful people with little politics. Good luck on your search.

 

[BandB]

It doesn't sound like the cruising life is really for you.
We were always the opposite when we had boats that weren't up for the job, saddened by the prospect of returning to dirt and dreaming of the day when we'd get a boat that would get us out here for real, full time, not beholden to marinas for support.

Wifey B: Well, we cruise 2/3 of the time but the fact we like returning home doesn't mean cruising isn't for us. We also love the next cruise. Just have friends and extended family at home we miss just like we miss the water. Torn between two lovers so to speak.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: To the OP. I know there's a lot of discouragement in this thread and proud of TF'ers for it. See, had you posted the same in a sister forum with a bunch of sailors it would have been all "drop everything, leave the world you know behind, doesn't matter if you're broke, doesn't matter if you have no idea what you do, we survived and those who died on the way don't post."

Seriously, those of us here love cruising. Some a little, some more, some with fanaticism. Meanwhile, you're in that infamous slot of TBD.

Just proceed cautiously and with a plan that will let you figure it out on your and your wife's own terms. We had no idea when we jumped in of how much. We'd moved to FL, left NC behind but bought a house in FL and then boats and now how much to cruise. So, off we went. Now, my hubby's famous theory of pain when he uses for a bazillion things. Off we went. Four weeks, great. Six weeks and we sort of longed to see those at home. So home and a week was great. Two was good but at three oh we longed to return to the boat. That's been mostly our pattern. Occasionally stretched to 8 weeks. This last year cruising has been short trips and we miss the extended cruises. Now we have a friend who is one month on, one month off. I laugh about his theory of pain but I don't know another way better than figuring it out on the fly. :lol:

We've got a dream cruise planned for this summer. 3 months in Schengen countries, another month or so in non-Schengen European countries. Omfg, I'm so excited. But......

I just can't be away from my family and extended family and friends and everything here for 4 months or more. I knot that. Fortunately hubby feels the same. So, we're already figuring out how to take a break, fly home, how long to be here plus how to get a trip to NC and SC right before and after to see the kids at the orphanage in NC and the kids at the school in SC and it's not some great altruism all for them, it's our need to see them. And how long a break and for retired people it's sick that we want to go into the office at least a couple of days and see everyone.

See, we love life and love our lives but we love so much so much that it just overflows and since we just can't clone our way through we have to balance things the best we know how. We're still learning as we haven't faced anything like the European trip and it doesn't come after a lot of other cruises but after us actually working 5 days a week again for a year. (Thank god for work when we couldn't do long cruises as it saved that very tiny bit of sanity I have).

I hope you love boating and the water as much as I do. Just you can't force it. You can't look out there and decide I'll love full time because I decided I will. Ease into the decision and the actual. Find your way.

Funny, selling our house in NC was easy. But now..I could never sell my house or boat. But if I must sell something I'd have the house and friends and small boat for lots of local boating and sacrifice the long major cruises as I could never sacrifice my family at home. I never imagined this being me, but think it comes with so long of not having a family. So it's personal and applies to no one else. But lots of ways of boating. We lived on a lake and boating was a bowrider and loved it and that was before I knew anymore. Now I want to cruise the world.

We're in the boating capital of the universe, but very few full time liveaboards. I see those like Simi who are incredibly happy with that lifestyle and I cheer. But we also live around canals full of people with extravagant homes and while some have yachts, some have center consoles and their boating is up and down the ICW and for dinner and fireworks and festivals.

Do it your way.

 

[ranger58sb]

My 2 cents FWIW:
Take your time settling on a boat. It takes years to learn all the differences between boat makers, pros and cons, fiberglass types, engine mfrs and types. Many of us are on our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th boats. Following your direction you may not have the luxury of learning by buying the wrong boat 2 or 3 times. You lose money every time. So my advice would be to know what your boat really needs to do, list those out (which you've started nicely), then ruthlessly compare it to every boat you see. Over the next 16 months I feel you should spend as much time as possible looking at Yachtworld, doing searches, reading every ad that has a boat mildly close to your requirements, and then researching every term, mfr, and engine you see there. Every term you don't understand, fuel and water tank sizes, layouts, etc. I learned the most valuable things by reading Yachtworld ads. Doing so produced questions that I needed to learn answers to. I thot I fell in love with THE boat probably 20 times throughout the learning process. Over a 3 year period the right vessel slowly surfaced and became the clear "right choice" for us. The only choice, in fact, that met our requirements.

If you're not an experienced boater, you can still become a studied expert on boats, like a guy who knows the pros and cons and stats of a football or baseball player - he may not play the game, but he knows what "good" and right looks like. And it's worth it. Live without regrets. Best of luck to you.

Excellent advice!

For OP: Yes, read everything. Chapman's, Beebe, every other book on boating, 5-6 boating magazines, local boating newsletters, on-line fora and blogs... whatever you can get your hands/eyes on. Pics can be especially helpful, especially useful for translating jargon into something you can understand.

We were also lucky enough to stumble into a very good buyer's broker a few decades ago... who shepherded us into our first "big" boat... that essentially meant we bought our third boat first. Great boat, met all of our then-current criteria... and it turned out to be absolutely the best choice we could have afforded at the time, too.

Fast forward, with two more boats in between... we're currently boatless but hopefully homing in our approximately "8th" boat. Much of that leapfrogging has been the product of defining our own target criteria -- specific features we want -- in advance, and even at the same time quickly eliminating for consideration boats that have features we don't like.

Ideally, you'll get to where you know what you like, what you don't like, what you want, what you don't want... and why... and what it all costs. If it turns out you proceed with the plan, you'll be well-prepped... but even if you don't, you'll know exactly why not. I often feel the "knowing why" is more important than whatever the decision is.

I haven't been to Muncie in quite a long time...

-Chris