HELP - Can't crank after grounding

[Pat T]

On our multi-state trip home disaster struck. My fault, I got stuck in low tide not watching what I was doing. Boat listed pretty good to starboard. I tried backing out but heard the props scraping the mud and knew it was too late so I stayed put, dropped anchor. I shut down so that I would not clog the strainers and decided to wait it out. Tide comes up and we get unstuck but I can not start port engine. It doesn't even turn a revolution. Next day I check oil level and it's overfilled. Suspect some sort of hydrolock - Call CAT for emergency service ($$$). Due to the severe angle of the boat water entered the crankcase from the muffler through the turbo outlet. We drained and added new oil. Still unable to crank. Then removed valve cover & injectors on the starboard side of the port engine and found no water in cylinders. Tried cranking with those 4 injectors removed and again no cranking. I will add that we also removed much water from the muffler and opened up the exhaust manifold to remove more water. Still can't crank this engine. We then tried to manually rotate crank with big breaker bar. We were able to but this was very difficult (much more than stb. engine to compare). Something is still preventing the crank from turning easily. FYI, I am able to rotate prop shaft while in neutral so no restrictions underneath.
The only thing we have not done is check for water on the port side cylinders of this engine. Our thought is that we hand cranked the shaft enough to remove any remaining water.
The CAT guy is stumped. He returns Tuesday to put things back together. Called a few other folks and got them stumped too
All was going so well on our way home after 4 good travel days (including transit through the East River & Hell's gate) but now we are stuck on the upper Hudson. This has been a tough, expensive nightmare and not sure how its going to end but I am starting to worry.

 

[Capt. Jon]

I once did something similar to you with a 3208TA CAT. When I tried to restart the engine it just went click. Called in the mechanics who used a pry bar to try and turn it over. Would not budge! Mechanic looked at me and said, sorry but I believe you bent a rod. Turned out I bent two due to hydraulic lockup. Who knew a starter was that strong. I do now.

Hope this is not your case.

 

[rgano]

You seem to lead me right to those other cylinders that did not have the injectors removed. From your description, it sounds like you were running the engines with the boat healed way over? May have added to the water load in that high side muffler. I am not sure what salinity is where your problem occurred, but if tidal action was involved, I'd assume some salt is in it and doing bad things if still in there. The usual procedure to save a submerged diesel, which just about sums up what happened to yours is to raise it within 24 hours (or just junk it if much longer), pull all injectors, drain sump, fill sump with diesel oil and crank the engine with an air-driven motor attached to the crank, drain, refill with diesel, spin a bit more, drain, fill sump with oil, spin, drain, refill with oil and fire it up. And fogging oil or some such lube is applied to each cylinder during the process. Every shop has variations on this, but you get the idea. Do not wait until Tuesday. Remove those other four injectors and suck any water out of the cylinders and get some oil in there. If no water there, see Jon's comment above.

You did not say how or if you removed your boat from the shoal, but I am assuming you are somewhere safe now. Is the stbd engine running? How about the generator? Any battery acid spilled?

 

[Pat T]

Oh boy. I was afraid of that. Not sounding good. Yes, tide was involved but I am fairly north - Catskill and I think more fresh water than salt, maybe some hope.
Boat just floated up with the tide. Starboard engine started and that's how I got into the harbor. Generator fine too.
Thanks guys.

 

[STB]

I am no expert, but if you have full insurance coverage, and you think the bill might, even in your wildest imagination, end up worth an insurance claim, you might want to check in with your insurance agent and talk over the situation.

Although insurance does not generally pay for mechanical repairs, it is my understanding that -- it does generally pay for mechanical repairs that are the direct result of a covered event, including grounding.

If you end up needing a new engine, never mind potentially other work related to the transmission, prop, shaft, maybe a haul out, lay days, bottom paint, rudder work, whatever, etc, I could easily see that being worth the conversation and maybe a claim.

And, I could easily see an eventual claim going better if the insurance company knew about it in time to see the original situation or close to it.

Others here are waaaaay more expert than me on this. If you've got full coverage, you may want to call, or quickly post another thread here in the right section (financial, I think) to get advice from the right folks.

The only thing I can say is that I've heard of aims like this getting paid with little hassle (can't say what later happened to the policy, rates, or insurability...but the boats didn't get sold, so it wasn't that bad).

 

[Comodave]

Call the insurance company post haste, if not done already.

 

[Pat T]

From your description, it sounds like you were running the engines with the boat healed way over?

Rich, I did not run the boat healed over. I shut down early actually before grounding and I was level. Thanks,
Pat

 

[Leonard Atkins]

Pat;


Unable to advise on diesel issues but the salt water line only extends to Poughkeepsie during drought conditions which we are not in. You have been in 100% fresh water since you traveled above Poughkeepsie.


Leonard

 

[oscar]

Do not rule out the fact that your starter may have crapped out at just the wrong moment. If you can bar it over the starter can crank it over.

That said I would open up the other bank before I would hit the button.

 

[Solly]

Remove ALL the injectors then try. It only takes one with water in it to hydro lock an engine. And hope by using a bar you didn't bend something.

 

[SteveK]

A thought.
Once valve cover is off those valves fully closed should have injector removed first as any slightly open would allow water to be ejected while cranking?

 

[BandB]

To the OP, sure hope you notified your insurer and filed opened a claim as sounds like this may get bigger than you thought. Also, sounds like time to back off and let some professionals evaluate it and determine the loss and what needs to be done.

 

[Ski in NC]

Can you rotate it two turns CW when facing the front? If so, starter should roll it.

NA or TA version? TA the turbo is pretty high, unusual for water to get in on a list. More likely on NA version.

Can you get to the other bank and pull injectors there? Or is it buried there?

 

[Pat T]

Thanks all. Here is an up date: We were able to bar the crank over several turns. It got a bit easier as we turned more revs. We then engaged the starter and was able to rotate the crank. It's still a little slow but I could not do this yesterday. There is hope here.
I don't think I need to open up the inboard side injectors since I probably squeezed out most of any water in a cylinder. They are tough to get at but not impossible on this 3208TA.
Got to wait until Tuesday (b/c of parts) for things to go back together. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Constellation1]

Fingers crossed for you Pat. Keep us apprised.

 

[Scooby5959]

Did that on A Hatteras sport fish when it was lifted out of the water they let it tip too much and water went into one of the cylinders the starter bent a connecting rod it happened very quickly , it also was being lifted for a survey I was in the process of purchasing , the broker or the boat yard don’t know which I had to pay to replace connecting rod anyways best Of luck

 

[oscar]

Did that on A Hatteras sport fish when it was lifted out of the water they let it tip too much and water went into one of the cylinders

How many degrees are we talking here.....? 25? 30? 40? 45? Seems to me you have to SEROUSLY dunk one side to get it up that far......

 

[Scooby5959]

Don’t know I wasn’t there however that’s what they told me it seemed weird to me too I’ve never seen a travel lift lift a boat at an angle whether starboard or port can’t tell you all I know that’s what they told me , I got into the board to start it turned maybe a half a crank and froze Mechanic told me water in a cylinder boat broker took care of it

 

[DCDC]

This situation would be another plus for a dry stack exhaust/keel cooler design.

 

[Jeff F]

How many degrees are we talking here.....? 25? 30? 40? 45? Seems to me you have to SEROUSLY dunk one side to get it up that far......

Probably bow down. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

 

[PM]

You can not make any assumptions until you get all the injectors removed. STOP cranking with a bar!

I hydrolocked a small Yanmar genny engine. It sat all winter without getting started. (I did get it dried out and winterized though) All three injectors were shot, probably from the water.

Bleeding a Yanmar is a lengthly process. You will need confidence in your battery and starter.

pete

 

[STB]

Probably bow down. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

Heavy bow down without exhaust pressure can do that easy with some configurations. Like heavy following seas on an inactive genset.

 

[wkearney99]

Water does not compress like a fuel/air mixture. If you turn over an engine that has water in the cylinders, even by hand, you very likely WILL bend things if that water is in there during the compression cycle. If there's ever any indication that water could have entered a cylinder you need to provide a way for the engine to eject that water, and that's most typically done by removing plugs/injectors. This way the water will get squirted out that hole instead of the pressure bending a valve, the connecting rods or blowing out a gasket. Sure, it's a pain, but it's a MUCH less expensive pain than an engine tear-down.

 

[Gdub]

Would love an update. A little worried that he’s on a gag order from insurance company

 

[Pat T]

Sorry for delay, so much to do when you are trying to bring home a new boat, will get more detailed update when I get some down time. Underway now , 2nd day since starting engine. Taking it slow but all systems normal! Hope to be in Erie Canal later today! Thanks all.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. PT. "...2nd day since starting engine." Talk about a teaser. Details ASAP, please.

 

[rgano]

So, Pat T, how have things developed since we last heard from you?

 

[Capt. Jon]

Awesome, glad to hear nothing broke and your underway!

 

[rgano]

Awesome, glad to hear nothing broke and your underway!

Plus me!!! Awaiting the deets.

 

[Pat T]

Of the advice I received baring over the engine seemed like a good option. Guess you could squeeze out any existing water from the outboard side of the engine. So I got hold of a 3 foot breaker bar and and turned. This was back breaking but it got a bit easier after we got about 8 to 10 revolutions. We were then able to use the starter to crank over the engine. Small bits of success and I am hopeful to a small extent. I was advised to squirt some WD 40 down the intake manifold via a plug in the top of the manifold while cranking. Wait a day, and squirt some more WD40 in.
I bar over the engine the next day again and it is a bit easier. Hope.
CAT is back on Tuesday and puts things back together and while adding coolant something else springs a leak. Oh brother you can't make this stuff up. CAT sends new gasket for new problem a few hours later no coolant leaks. Crank it over with starter and it's spinning pretty freely but no start. Had to bleed a bit of air and finally it starts. Oh happy day.
I spent a lot of money on CAT service but I think it could have been a lot worse. There is still a chance I could have an issue but I've completed 2 more legs of our trip home. We did change the oil a couple of time to ensure all water gone. Seven plus hours engine time and no leaks, no vibration from grounding and all seems normal.