Westerbeke 10kW BTDA Won't Start

[scurvydog_pnw]

Hi folks,

I have a 2016 Westerbeke 10kW BTDA diesel generator on our boat that failed to start last weekend. It has less than a 100 hours on it and we are the single owners. Up until now it has never had starting issues. I started the troubleshooting process consulting Nigel Calder's diesel mechanic book but, looking for some additional help. I am looking at this as a good opportunity to work on my troubleshooting skills.

The engine looks like it attempts to crank over but, then stops. This engine needs to have the pre-heat button held down priori to starting for the glow plugs. When I hold down the pre-heat you can hear the fuel lift pump clicking which I believe is normal. I have upload a 10 sec video of the attempted startup ( https://youtu.be/eS7MrMLN5DM ).

Last time this generator ran was last week of Dec. Ran for about 1-2 hours with heat pumps and space heater running while we took it out for a cruise. We usually run the generator at least every 3 months and like to run for an hour and load up the generator.

So here is what I have worked through so far.
1. Battery charge level. 5 yr old AGM but, voltage look good and no reason to suspect the battery had failed. Disconnected battery and attempted to start of 8Dx2 AGM used for Inverter bank. Same result.
2. Cable run from battery -> battery-swtch -> generator is less then 12' and direct run to frame of gen (-) and starter (+). I cleaned up connectors on both ends (no rust) and confirmed low resistance < 0.1 ohm.
3. Ruled out waterlock. Thru hull is always closed when generator is not running and exhaust outlet is above waterline with a riser.
4. Checked fuel manifold is open and Racor filter a-ok after visual inspection. Less then 30 hours on it and I changed the fuel filter last in 2019.
5. Hooked up AMP meter to battery cable during start and say at most 180A being briefly pulled.
6. Hooked up AMP meter onto the pre-heat solenoid on the output wire (VIO/RED) and would see 50A draw when pre-heat switch is engaged. Seems high as the manual says 8-9A per glow plug x 3 = 24-27A
7. I have not tested the glow plugs yet but, I ran them for 25 seconds with the pre-heat and they did not feel hot to the touch or warm per some recommendations.
8. I did a voltage test from the battery (-) to the control wire "B" to the pre-heat solenoid and saw 10.6V when pre-heat switch engaged. I assume that is expected with voltage drop on the battery with draw from the glow plugs.
9. I made an assumption that the starter + starter solenoid is working as I can see the AC generator spin when the engine attempts to crank in the video. Maybe that is a bad assumption.
10. So per this forum post (link below) there are a number of items in the starter circuit that can cause issues. I have identified them all on the engine but, not clear what is a good/bad reading on them. I took some readings of the water temp switch, oil pressure switch, and aux oil pressure switch.
11. Printed out wiring diagram and started identifying components on generator.

Good news is I don't need the generator ASAP so I can spend time learning how the components work and diagnose if they are working correctly.

Related forum post.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/westerbeke-5kw-genset-diagnostic-question-46754.html

 

[Lepke]

Sounds like the starter can't completely turn the engine over. Like the starter doesn't have enough power, that could mean bad starter, bad battery and everything in between or somehow water locked. You can get a water lock from excessive cranking w/o starting depending on your exhaust plumbing.
Check your oil to see if there's any sign of water. I'd pull the injectors, put out rags to catch diesel from the injector tubes, and see if it cranks over without compression. It should crank noticeably faster.That also will clear some of the water if it's present.

If the engine still doesn't turn over and no water squirts out of an injector hole, then I'd guess a bad starter, solenoid or cabling between the starter and batteries.
Most auto part stores can test a starter.

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

Do you think it makes more sense to pull the starter and test it or do the injectors first Lepke?

I tested it with two different batteries so I can rule that out and cables since they are straight runs with little resistance.

Hopefully not water locked. Good news it had this behavior on first crank last week. Though I did a few cranks with thru hull opened but, I would let it sit for a few hours or a day between coming back and testing something else. Realized this last weekend that I should just close the thru hull while testing.

 

[Capt. Jon]

Try another battery or use some type of jumper device and see if it turns over. Sounds like the battery is on its way out or is not charging.

 

[High Wire]

It sounds like low voltage to/from the starter motor. The starter solenoid is clicking from low voltage.

Can you use a set of jumper cables and go directly from an 8D the the starter motor positive terminal? Also negative from 8D to starter casing.
Yes the glow plugs are drawing too much if your ammeter is correct. If you look at the glow plugs, they are daisy chained together. Disconnect the first in line which removes power to all, then try a crank.

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

Yeah I can try a direct jumper this evening. Good news is the 8D is about 3 ft away. Will grab the jumper cables from my truck should do the trick. One possible item was to pull the bar that connects the glow plugs and test the resistance. The service manual has the value to test against as well.

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[chiropaul]

These genny's have issues with the start/stop solenoid. If it does not pull in completely and remain held in that position, it will not start. The contacts tend to burn, and the springs weaken. Ask me how I know. Will probably need replacing or adjusting the linkage where it attaches to the governor may get it to start.

 

[Arc]

1- I would confirm the engine will take a full revolution by barring over or remove the starter and 8se a screwdriver on flywheel.
If it make a full rotation I would go after the starter. It could have poor conductivity under the positive stud.

 

[PM]

From your video I would say it is a battery or ground issue.

pete

 

[Capt. Jon]

From your video I would say it is a battery or ground issue.

pete

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

A few updates tonight.

1.) I went and rotated the flywheel several revolutions to check to see if something got bent or stuck. It rotated just fine with minimal resistance.

2.) To rule out battery, cables, and isolation switch I jumped our 2x8D battery inverter bank straight to the starter solenoid. Same symptoms no change.

3.) I then decided to test the starter solenoid per page 42 of the service manual. It failed step 1 and I found continuity between terminals S & M.
https://www.westerbeke.com/technical manual/manual_service_35e_44c_8-15 btdc_45100_rev_2.pdf

4.) I attempted to bypass the solenoid by jumping terminals S&M with the start switch engaged and I could get the engine to attempt to turn over but, did not fire up. Also large sulfer smell ensued so I hope that was the arcing on the screw driver.

So I am thinking next step is to just pull the solenoid off and inspect and possible just go get a new one at the service shop down the street. It looks like this can be pulled off without removing the starter. Hard to tell because the generator side with the starter is the hardest to get to as it's facing a wall. Fun times that.

Cheers

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

Well my local distributor for Westerbeke did not have the solenoid in stock so I ordered from Westerbeke. It may be a week or two before I can report back on the swap of the starter solenoid.

 

[sunchaser]

Well my local distributor for Westerbeke did not have the solenoid in stock so I ordered from Westerbeke. It may be a week or two before I can report back on the swap of the starter solenoid.

Did you try the Gallery or Haddon stores?

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

Did you try the Gallery or Haddon stores?

Sadly yes and yes. Gallery is within walking distance of our boat.

 

[Lepke]

Since the solenoid does try to activate, it may be the contacts are pitted. Most starter solenoids can be disassembled, the contacts and disk filed smooth. And the disk may be reversible. If the solenoid is riveted, the rivets can be drilled out and when reassembling the solenoid, use pop-rivets.
You know, Westerbeke doesn't make the starter or solenoid. They just put their name on the item and triple the price. Search a starter or solenoid for your engine on ebay, and it's probably less than half of what Westerbeke charges. And could be manufactured in the same factory.

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

Tomorrow I will yank the starter off so I can remove the solenoid. Whomever designed the solenoid mount should be shot. I intend to pull the solenoid apart and see what happened.

I always hate to replace a like for like part that failed with so little service life. Had same issue with stock JD water pump that had 3 seals fail in two years. Crap pump and got a none OEM pump installed.

I will post what I find out tomorrow.

-R

 

[jcurry]

May not be relevant but I had a 1985 4.4 Westerbeke that ran when i bought the boat, was laid up for two years and failed to start. Had an experienced diesel mechanic go over it, did injectors, engine would not crank fast enough to start; di all the usual troubleshooting. Finally tore the engine down and it was so badly coked up that you could barely more the connection rods an the piston rings were frozen. After freeing everythin up and reassembly the engine started and ran.

 

[scurvydog_pnw]

So quick update. First the service manual for the Westerbeke diagram for the starter solenoid is wrong. It has the battery + cable not terminating on the bolt but, on the lead coming from the engine start circuit. Hence when I tested it I thought I had a bad solenoid which I do not. Now I have a spare.

I then decided next step was to contact service tech for Westerbeke and he looked at the video and said your battery is dead and using jumper cables often fails because they are too long and too small. So I dropped a new battery in yesterday and let it charge for a few hours and vvvrroommm generator fired right up.

So it was a good learning experience since I had jumped a dead generator battery before on another boat and it had worked fine.

Thanks for all the help here. Over all I learned more about troubleshooting my generator so that is a great thing.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Congrats! And always good to have spare parts.

 

[Ski in NC]

Jumper cables can start an engine by charging a drained batt. Hook it up and let sit for ten min or so, good engine running, it charges the drained batt. Then that partially charged batt does the starting.

But if batt is actually failed and not just drained, jumpers rarely carry enough current for a start. Unless a Honda Civic or such little motor.