Nick14
Guru
I’ve had a lot of frustrating experiences trying to buy a boat over the past two years (in the $400k-$600k range). I thought it might be amusing to start a thread to share stories (at least it might be cathartic commiseration for anyone else who might be in a similar situation).
Here are just a few examples of my attempts to buy a boat in the past year:
Boat #1
Saw a (new) boat at a major boat show last fall. I agreed to buy it at the asking price, but wanted something modified by either the dealer or the manufacturer. The dealer assured me it would be no problem, but couldn’t give an estimate for the cost (probably mid to high 5 figures). I was reluctant to sign an agreement without knowing at least an estimate of the cost. He promised he’d let me know within a day, and that the boat was mine.
Two weeks went by without my hearing from him. I called, texted, and emailed daily. I finally got a response saying ‘the boat’s been sold’.
Boat #2
Listing appeared on yachtworld, called the broker the next morning, asked if I could see the boat ASAP. I told him if it was as described in the listing, I’d be a buyer at the list price.
Broker whined about how the boat wasn’t convenient for him to get to, it would take him several hours and a ferry ride to get there and back, which he wasn’t willing to do (I live much farther away and was more than willing to spend the time to see it).
Broker told me he was bringing the boat to his location in about a week, and showings would start then. I asked and he agreed to call me as soon as he knew when it would be available.
Over the next several days I called, sent texts and emails asking for updates. No response to any of them. A week later he happened to pick up when I called and said, “I have 5 offers on the boat, 2 are over asking, do you want to get in on the bidding?”
Boat #3
Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called immediately, said I was interested in buying it at the asking price, cash, no financing contingency, contingent only on my visual inspection and a survey. Told the broker I was willing to send a signed agreement to that effect.
Broker told me he would only look at and consider the offer if it was accompanied by a deposit of 20% of the price, and only if sent by wire transfer. A check would not be accepted. They would only look at my offer a week after the wire transfer of the deposit had been received, and only then let me know if they accepted it.
He told me they would not respond or acknowledge my offer without a wire transfer deposit of 20% of the price. I asked why, given that I was offering their full asking price, and heard some gibberish about how ‘there’s more to an offer than the price’.
When I asked if my deposit would be refunded in full and how long it would take if they declined my offer, I heard double-talk about how ‘it’s complicated’ and they couldn’t commit to a timeframe for a refund, and insisted that any of their ‘costs’ would also need to be deducted.
Boat #4
Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I sent the broker (electronically via email) a signed purchase agreement at the asking price (a basic template downloaded from BoatUS).
I went to see the boat the next morning. It was not in as good condition as I thought it would be from the listing and broker’s description, but still wanted to buy it at the asking price. The broker told me the agreement I sent was not acceptable, because it had to be on ‘their letterhead’. I asked him to send me their agreement form that I would sign and return when I got home. We shook hands on the deal.
When I got home, in my email was a note from the broker saying that someone else saw the boat that afternoon after I did and offered above the asking price, and asking if I’d like to up my bid.
Boat #5
Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I offered to send a purchase agreement, and the broker told me ‘there’s no time for a contract, if you want the boat come tomorrow with a check’. The broker declined to send me their contract form, and repeatedly told me to ‘come tomorrow with a check’, that the ‘boat was beyond pristine’, it was ‘going to be gone tomorrow’ and that I would have no concerns about it.
I arrived the next morning, and in my opinion, the boat was a hot mess. I thought it needed a complete restoration even though it was less than 10 years old. To my eyes it looked like it had been severely neglected and abused. Everything needed to be completely redone, inside and out – complete new interior woodwork and upholstery, new paint, several inches of water in the bilge, multiple leaks, damage throughout.
There were some major problems that I didn’t know how they could be repaired. I called and spoke with a couple of yards and they also couldn’t advise on how to fix them. I’ve noticed it’s gone pending and then available again several times over the past six months.
Boat #6
Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called the same day. The listing had only one photo, with notes that more information was coming, and the boat would be available to be seen in two weeks time. The broker told me that the boat was not available to be shown yet, that it was planned to clean up and launch the boat, take more photos, and only then make it available for showings. I offered to send a full price purchase agreement to buy the boat, to which the broker told me they were not accepting offers unless the buyer actually sees the boat in person.
I emailed, texted, and called two days later, to ask if there was any more clarity on when the boat would be available to be seen. The next day I get an email saying the boat is under contract. I called, said I thought he said offers weren’t being accepted unless the buyer sees the boat in person. But it seems different buyers get treated differently.
Boats #7, 8, and 9
I’ve called about three different boats on yachtworld this year that did not have engine hours listed in the ads. In each case (different broker each time) I was told that they didn’t know the hours, and didn’t know if they would have time to get them before the boat sold. One broker told me he ‘doesn’t have time to answer questions’, that he’s ‘expecting very strong offers that morning’, and if I want the boat I need to send an offer within the next hour.
There are more examples, but these are some of the greatest hits.
This is on top of the ‘market’ forces of most boats being expensive, in poor condition, or often both. It’s hard for me to get excited about 20 year old boats with high hour engines likely near the end of their reliable service lives selling for more than they cost new (and not far off of what a new boat would go for), and being treated with disdain. It’s amazing how much people will pay for the immediate gratification of being about to go boating RIGHT NOW.
I appreciate the ‘market’ is ‘hot’. I get it when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. But the ‘market’ doesn’t put a gun to people’s heads and force them to act without integrity or principles, to treat people with arrogance, rudeness, and insouciance. Those are personal choices some people make. It seems the prospects of making extra money and some tawdry little bits of power turn some people into complete jerks.
The truth of a person comes out when they have a little bit of power. Sometimes it brings out the best in a person, sometimes the opposite. When someone chooses to act sleazily or like a jerk, when they do things they don’t have to but do them just because they can, it tells you a lot about them.
I’ve been looking on my own, not exclusively using a retained buyers broker. FWIW, I’ve had more than one broker offer to represent me as a buyers broker, telling me they would put in offers on 4, 5, 6 boats at a time, at above the asking price, to lock them in to give me time to see them, after which I’d decline all the other ones I wasn’t interested in, and go back and negotiate the price after survey (“a survey always finds things”). Also FWIW, I’ve also had more than one selling broker tell me they’ve heard of this practice, and again FWIW, I’ve had multiple experiences of calling about a boat, being told it’s ‘already under contract’, and then getting a call a few weeks later that the ‘deal fell through’. Maybe that’s how things are done in this market, but to me seems disingenuous.
On top of all this are limited inventory, and timing pressures to get everything done FAST. When I’ve tried to go down the road and rush to try to buy a boat, in some of the above situations I was told I had 14 days from first offer to closing and if I couldn’t get surveys and other things done in that time, too bad.
As much as I’d like to be out on the water today, all this nonsense just sucks the fun out of it for me. I just can’t do it. I don’t want to be given the bum’s rush and hurried into buying something for a crazy price before I even know what I’d be getting. I just can’t happily bend over, grab my ankles, and pay an insane price, leaving me with the first memory of the boat being that I let myself get ripped off. Every time I looked at it I would feel like a sucker.
The past couple of months, when I’ve seen new boat listings come up on yachtworld, I haven’t even bothered to call about them anymore. I know how it’s likely to go, and I’m done with that. I’ve instead signed an agreement to buy a new boat, which was an infinitely more pleasant process (more on that later).
How about anyone else? Any amusing experiences to share (or commiserate)?
Here are just a few examples of my attempts to buy a boat in the past year:
Boat #1
Saw a (new) boat at a major boat show last fall. I agreed to buy it at the asking price, but wanted something modified by either the dealer or the manufacturer. The dealer assured me it would be no problem, but couldn’t give an estimate for the cost (probably mid to high 5 figures). I was reluctant to sign an agreement without knowing at least an estimate of the cost. He promised he’d let me know within a day, and that the boat was mine.
Two weeks went by without my hearing from him. I called, texted, and emailed daily. I finally got a response saying ‘the boat’s been sold’.
Boat #2
Listing appeared on yachtworld, called the broker the next morning, asked if I could see the boat ASAP. I told him if it was as described in the listing, I’d be a buyer at the list price.
Broker whined about how the boat wasn’t convenient for him to get to, it would take him several hours and a ferry ride to get there and back, which he wasn’t willing to do (I live much farther away and was more than willing to spend the time to see it).
Broker told me he was bringing the boat to his location in about a week, and showings would start then. I asked and he agreed to call me as soon as he knew when it would be available.
Over the next several days I called, sent texts and emails asking for updates. No response to any of them. A week later he happened to pick up when I called and said, “I have 5 offers on the boat, 2 are over asking, do you want to get in on the bidding?”
Boat #3
Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called immediately, said I was interested in buying it at the asking price, cash, no financing contingency, contingent only on my visual inspection and a survey. Told the broker I was willing to send a signed agreement to that effect.
Broker told me he would only look at and consider the offer if it was accompanied by a deposit of 20% of the price, and only if sent by wire transfer. A check would not be accepted. They would only look at my offer a week after the wire transfer of the deposit had been received, and only then let me know if they accepted it.
He told me they would not respond or acknowledge my offer without a wire transfer deposit of 20% of the price. I asked why, given that I was offering their full asking price, and heard some gibberish about how ‘there’s more to an offer than the price’.
When I asked if my deposit would be refunded in full and how long it would take if they declined my offer, I heard double-talk about how ‘it’s complicated’ and they couldn’t commit to a timeframe for a refund, and insisted that any of their ‘costs’ would also need to be deducted.
Boat #4
Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I sent the broker (electronically via email) a signed purchase agreement at the asking price (a basic template downloaded from BoatUS).
I went to see the boat the next morning. It was not in as good condition as I thought it would be from the listing and broker’s description, but still wanted to buy it at the asking price. The broker told me the agreement I sent was not acceptable, because it had to be on ‘their letterhead’. I asked him to send me their agreement form that I would sign and return when I got home. We shook hands on the deal.
When I got home, in my email was a note from the broker saying that someone else saw the boat that afternoon after I did and offered above the asking price, and asking if I’d like to up my bid.
Boat #5
Listing appeared, called the broker immediately and made arrangements to see the boat the next day. I offered to send a purchase agreement, and the broker told me ‘there’s no time for a contract, if you want the boat come tomorrow with a check’. The broker declined to send me their contract form, and repeatedly told me to ‘come tomorrow with a check’, that the ‘boat was beyond pristine’, it was ‘going to be gone tomorrow’ and that I would have no concerns about it.
I arrived the next morning, and in my opinion, the boat was a hot mess. I thought it needed a complete restoration even though it was less than 10 years old. To my eyes it looked like it had been severely neglected and abused. Everything needed to be completely redone, inside and out – complete new interior woodwork and upholstery, new paint, several inches of water in the bilge, multiple leaks, damage throughout.
There were some major problems that I didn’t know how they could be repaired. I called and spoke with a couple of yards and they also couldn’t advise on how to fix them. I’ve noticed it’s gone pending and then available again several times over the past six months.
Boat #6
Listing appeared on yachtworld, I called the same day. The listing had only one photo, with notes that more information was coming, and the boat would be available to be seen in two weeks time. The broker told me that the boat was not available to be shown yet, that it was planned to clean up and launch the boat, take more photos, and only then make it available for showings. I offered to send a full price purchase agreement to buy the boat, to which the broker told me they were not accepting offers unless the buyer actually sees the boat in person.
I emailed, texted, and called two days later, to ask if there was any more clarity on when the boat would be available to be seen. The next day I get an email saying the boat is under contract. I called, said I thought he said offers weren’t being accepted unless the buyer sees the boat in person. But it seems different buyers get treated differently.
Boats #7, 8, and 9
I’ve called about three different boats on yachtworld this year that did not have engine hours listed in the ads. In each case (different broker each time) I was told that they didn’t know the hours, and didn’t know if they would have time to get them before the boat sold. One broker told me he ‘doesn’t have time to answer questions’, that he’s ‘expecting very strong offers that morning’, and if I want the boat I need to send an offer within the next hour.
There are more examples, but these are some of the greatest hits.
This is on top of the ‘market’ forces of most boats being expensive, in poor condition, or often both. It’s hard for me to get excited about 20 year old boats with high hour engines likely near the end of their reliable service lives selling for more than they cost new (and not far off of what a new boat would go for), and being treated with disdain. It’s amazing how much people will pay for the immediate gratification of being about to go boating RIGHT NOW.
I appreciate the ‘market’ is ‘hot’. I get it when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. But the ‘market’ doesn’t put a gun to people’s heads and force them to act without integrity or principles, to treat people with arrogance, rudeness, and insouciance. Those are personal choices some people make. It seems the prospects of making extra money and some tawdry little bits of power turn some people into complete jerks.
The truth of a person comes out when they have a little bit of power. Sometimes it brings out the best in a person, sometimes the opposite. When someone chooses to act sleazily or like a jerk, when they do things they don’t have to but do them just because they can, it tells you a lot about them.
I’ve been looking on my own, not exclusively using a retained buyers broker. FWIW, I’ve had more than one broker offer to represent me as a buyers broker, telling me they would put in offers on 4, 5, 6 boats at a time, at above the asking price, to lock them in to give me time to see them, after which I’d decline all the other ones I wasn’t interested in, and go back and negotiate the price after survey (“a survey always finds things”). Also FWIW, I’ve also had more than one selling broker tell me they’ve heard of this practice, and again FWIW, I’ve had multiple experiences of calling about a boat, being told it’s ‘already under contract’, and then getting a call a few weeks later that the ‘deal fell through’. Maybe that’s how things are done in this market, but to me seems disingenuous.
On top of all this are limited inventory, and timing pressures to get everything done FAST. When I’ve tried to go down the road and rush to try to buy a boat, in some of the above situations I was told I had 14 days from first offer to closing and if I couldn’t get surveys and other things done in that time, too bad.
As much as I’d like to be out on the water today, all this nonsense just sucks the fun out of it for me. I just can’t do it. I don’t want to be given the bum’s rush and hurried into buying something for a crazy price before I even know what I’d be getting. I just can’t happily bend over, grab my ankles, and pay an insane price, leaving me with the first memory of the boat being that I let myself get ripped off. Every time I looked at it I would feel like a sucker.
The past couple of months, when I’ve seen new boat listings come up on yachtworld, I haven’t even bothered to call about them anymore. I know how it’s likely to go, and I’m done with that. I’ve instead signed an agreement to buy a new boat, which was an infinitely more pleasant process (more on that later).
How about anyone else? Any amusing experiences to share (or commiserate)?
