Older Boat Question

[Mdginc]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

 

[Gulf Comanche]

You’re no crazier than the rest of us. I bought a 1993 aluminum trawler from the original owner, it was a custom build by Hike Metal Products. The first thing I started on was the hoses, fuel, water, etc. i started by replacing all of the engine fuel lines and bought the best I could find, most had to be fabricated to fit. They’re still in good shape. Then went around the engine room and tightened all the the bands that keep the hose attached from point a to b. Same goes for the water lines to the head and galley. If you do it yourself you’ll soon learn how everything works. Still learning 15 years later. Good luck, its been quite a ride.

 

[Tingum]

That is not an old boat

 

[STB]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

That's a new boat by comparison to mine from 1981 or my prior boat from 1977 -- both reliable cruisers serving their owners well.

 

[tiltrider1]

How mechanically inclined are you? How well maintained was the Fleming? Things wear out over time. This does not mean newer boats are issue free.

Level of maintenance is usually more important than age. However, a 30 year old boat is going to have a fair amount of obsolete equipment that is no longer supported. Simply put, maintenance is going to be more frequent and more expensive on a 30 year old boat than a 10 year old boat.

Personally, I have no issues with owning an older boat but I do my own maintenance.

 

[Blissboat]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

Welcome aboard the TF!

A thorough marine survey will tell you whether you need to be bringing your "crazy" on this purchase. As is often stated on this Forum, as the months and years accumulate, what really matters is how well a boat is being cared for, more so than how well it was built. Fleming is a quality brand, but a neglected boat of any brand is more of a project than it is a boat.

Of course some say that we are all crazy to even consider owning any boat.

 

[sunchaser]

Was one engine rebuilt and not the other? One man’s rebuild is another’s paint job. Ask for details as to what, where and why. The vessel should have a very good work order and invoice as to the nature of the rebuild.

Cat 3208s?

 

[Mdginc]

both CAT 3208TA engines were rebuilt.
very good advise. Thank you.
We will be doing a survey next week.

 

[rgano]

Welcome aboard, and hope you will stick with us as time goes on. I want to hear all about my dream boat!

 

[twistedtree]

I think as long as the price matches the condition, and the condition matches your willingness to do projects, and of course the boat meets you needs, then it can work out just fine.

 

[kthoennes]

That is not an old boat

I had exactly the same thought. The first big(ger) boat we bought was a 1985 Carver 3207, good boat. That boat sure taught me a lot and was a big help in getting me up to speed to maintain this one. Hope yours goes well. Maintenance maintenance.

 

[danderer]

For a boat like the 55 that has a long production run I'd look at a new-ish one and see what they changed. There might be some good clues there as to weak points of the design they corrected in newer models.

For example, I believe the teak decks on the older boats were screwed rather than glued.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. The Fleming 55 is one of my all time favorites. The engine room is a bit tight but workable. Fleming made changes as they came up rather than waiting on a model year so hull number is important when checking on a particular boat. I would call Fleming and ask about the particular hull number and they probably can give you a lot of insight about that boat. My understanding is they keep in touch with all the boat owners through the boat’s history. Good luck and if you get it we will need photos of it.

 

[Ken E.]

As in humans, boat age is far less important than condition and maintenance. My boat is a 1971 and serves me well, although most all systems have been replaced or upgraded. Your Fleming might require some of the same. Flemings are very nice boats. Putting some money in it could be justified if the purchase price is right.

 

[Simi 60]

Was one engine rebuilt and not the other? One man’s rebuild is another’s paint job. Ask for details as to what, where and why. The vessel should have a very good work order and invoice as to the nature of the rebuild.

Cat 3208s?

This ^^^^^

 

[Simi 60]

I think as long as the price matches the condition, and the condition matches your willingness to do projects, and of course the boat meets you needs, then it can work out just fine.

And the extra cash to keep it all going is sitting there ready to go
Point being, don't spend ALL your funds on buying the boat.

 

[Murval]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

If Burr Yachts is selling it, you can not go wrong.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

This age?

If you're crazy I must be howling mad insane.

 

[Peter B]

This age?

If you're crazy I must be howling mad insane.

Ha ha. My thoughts as well. Heck, in 2002 when I bought mine, it was a 1975 hull build. However, I particularly liked Twistedtree's comment...

"I think as long as the price matches the condition, and the condition matches your willingness to do projects, and of course the boat meets you needs, then it can work out just fine."

Because that comment fitted our situation exactly, only several levels below the level of a Fleming 55 of course.

 

[RickyD]

My 1991 Californian 55 has cost me about an average of $2100 a month in maintenance and parts. So that's about 12% a year over my purchase price. I don't include slip fees, bottom cleaning, or topside cleaning in that and I do include diesel but heck, the last time I filled up was Oct 2021 and I'll make it to the next October as I still have plenty. I get a gallon a mile at 10 knots. Man diesel has really gone up since I paid $3.77 including California's ridiculous sales taxes. On the road it's now over $5.00. The first 6 months were very expensive relatively. I also replace all my Nav gear in 2021. Not cheap.

 

[Goldcar]

we purchased a 95 Fleming 3 years ago. All comments here are relevant. We spent almost as much on refit, rehab as we did on the boat. We also shipped it from Fla to Seattle. Boats from Fla take a beating especially when not properly cared for. I always tell people, "it's not the cost of the boat, it's the maintenance." One thing we are dealing with now is the inability to find heat exchangers, no longer built by CAT and few used ones around. Glad to chat more as needed. All that being said, Fleming is the bomb!

 

[dutch-barge]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

LOL. wow this got me laughing.

we dont consider our boat old and it was build 1930 !!!

 

[Mambo42]

Newbie here, We are looking at buying a 1992 Fleming 55'. She has a rebuilt engine in 2015 and appears to be in great shape. In fact she is beautiful and ticks all of our boxes. Are we crazy to even consider a boat of this age.
Thank you in advance for your comments.

I have a 1979 Defever 49 and yes we had to pour in a lot of money to bring her up to standard again. The asking price was low for Europe since trawlers are not quite common in this part of the world.
After that we had to get new engines because someone was kind enough to destroy ours.
We needed to rewire the boat, installed stabilizers, had to do all the wood work, painting, installed solar panels, replace the anchor and anchor winch, get a lot of new batteries (including LIFEPO4) so in all we did spend quite a bit of money to get her up to speed.
The hull itself was in good condition, nothing wrong there, so if your Fleming is still in good condition I would definitely go for it. The guys of Fleming sales on the East coast are extremely knowledgeable so if they tell you this boat is in good condition I would not hesitate and you will not regret it.

 

[mmullins]

https://www.soundingsonline.com/boats/fleming-55

Just a little Fleming history. And, my 2 cents is a well cared for older boat is a better investment than a poorly cared for new boat.

 

[Mambo42]

Just saw the boat you are thinking about listed at Burr yachts and like others have stated, if Burr yachts puts their name on it you cannot go wrong.

There are no pictures of the ER, but if the rest of the boat is an indication of what the ER looks like, she is in mint condition. Pretty sure she will pass a survey with flying colors. There is still enough room for upgrades, but not necessary to enjoy the boat at this moment.
Stunning boat.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

That's not an old boat. It may have a few years on it but the hour meters are more important.

I would be more concerned about the salt water history.

Buy it.

pete

 

[twistedtree]

Just looked at the ad. That's an attractive price, so I understand your interest. I think the key will be a VERY careful inspection of the boat's condition. That price also suggests that the boat needs significant work. It could easily soak up hundreds of thousands of dollars addressing things that are just old and worn out.


I'm guessing you have a boat currently, or maybe not, but getting anything done by "professionals" is eye wateringly expensive. At $150/hr for marginally skilled techs, the meter will be spinning lightening fast with very slow progress, and figure on 10% to 50% of the work needing to be redone because it wasn't done correctly. Expect everything to be twice as expensive and take twice as long. And assume that you will only discover/identify half of the work during survey that actually needs to be done. This will be a short list of torture for a boat that appears in excellent condition, but a long list of torture for a boat that has a list of projects from the survey.



My own observation is that a fixer-upper is never a good deal if you are paying others to do the work. You will certainly have more money in the boat than if you just bought a better condition boat in the first place. Plus you will have a year or two of not using the boat, and managing refit projects.


The only way a fixer-upper works is if you are expressly looking for a project that you will mostly do yourself. Some people like projects, and others don't.


One other comment, and this isn't specific about Burr - I actually have not had any dealings with them. But I think the comments about how everything will be fine since Burr is selling the boat is just bat-**** crazy. I would never, under any circumstances, place that much blind faith in any broker or dealer no matter how much I like and/or trust them.


I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I would proceed with caution. A $500k asking price on a Fleming 55 suggests it needs a lot of work, and is not just about its age.

 

[jjorgenson3]

Hahaha might as well add an older wooden boat to the thread. Our 1970 is super simple to maintain the trick is to keep it up. Enjoy

 

[Jc180]

Just saw the boat you are thinking about listed at Burr yachts and like others have stated, if Burr yachts puts their name on it you cannot go wrong.

There are no pictures of the ER, but if the rest of the boat is an indication of what the ER looks like, she is in mint condition. Pretty sure she will pass a survey with flying colors. There is still enough room for upgrades, but not necessary to enjoy the boat at this moment.
Stunning boat.

No pictures of engine room should be a red flag!

 

[mvweebles]

Just looked at the ad. That's an attractive price, so I understand your interest. I think the key will be a VERY careful inspection of the boat's condition. That price also suggests that the boat needs significant work. It could easily soak up hundreds of thousands of dollars addressing things that are just old and worn out.


I'm guessing you have a boat currently, or maybe not, but getting anything done by "professionals" is eye wateringly expensive. At $150/hr for marginally skilled techs, the meter will be spinning lightening fast with very slow progress, and figure on 10% to 50% of the work needing to be redone because it wasn't done correctly. Expect everything to be twice as expensive and take twice as long. And assume that you will only discover/identify half of the work during survey that actually needs to be done. This will be a short list of torture for a boat that appears in excellent condition, but a long list of torture for a boat that has a list of projects from the survey.



My own observation is that a fixer-upper is never a good deal if you are paying others to do the work. You will certainly have more money in the boat than if you just bought a better condition boat in the first place. Plus you will have a year or two of not using the boat, and managing refit projects.


The only way a fixer-upper works is if you are expressly looking for a project that you will mostly do yourself. Some people like projects, and others don't.


One other comment, and this isn't specific about Burr - I actually have not had any dealings with them. But I think the comments about how everything will be fine since Burr is selling the boat is just bat-**** crazy. I would never, under any circumstances, place that much blind faith in any broker or dealer no matter how much I like and/or trust them.


I hate to be a Negative Nancy, but I would proceed with caution. A $500k asking price on a Fleming 55 suggests it needs a lot of work, and is not just about its age.

Thumbs-up on your general $$$ observations. Even having work done in Mexico, it's a difficult proposition.

The only counter-argument I'd offer is a Fleming (like Nordhavn) is a marquis brand that sells quickly and at a premium. I'm not saying you can flip one for a profit, but I am saying you'll lose less than dumping $200k (guess) into something else (funny how with boats, losing less is a winning proposition). I think it was Mambo who posted this morning his upgrades to his Defever 49 - well into the 6-figures. Even worse is me and my Willard 36.

I'm pretty sure the cheapest way to own a boat is to buy a good example of a marquis brand boat and keep it in good condition. For the most part, you will resell it for what you paid for it, minus the upgrades. And you get to use the boat from Day 1 - not spending a bunch of time and money in the yard, chasing repairs, etc.

The listing of the Fleming look nice - perhaps too nice. Sort of looks a bit photo-shopped, but who knows. Certainly seems like a worthwhile adventure.

Best success in whatever the future holds.

Peter