Steering line leaking

One hydraulic steering line inside the electrical box has been leaking slowly always. The copper line below a fitting appears oily in the outside surface. The flare fitting at the top of the photo also shows some oil at the tapered ends. What could have cause these fittings to leak slowly?

With flare fittings on River Girl, the cause was usually a poor flare-either too little flare or too thin and a small crack developed. Flares are easy to replace - if you can get access!

Flatswing said:

With flare fittings on River Girl, the cause was usually a poor flare-either too little flare or too thin and a small crack developed. Flares are easy to replace - if you can get access!

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The fitting in the middle of the photo is not flare. Do you mean these fittings need to be replaced? Does it require to drain the entire hydraulic system, bleeding and refill?

Yes, agree re the middle fitting. Draining, refilling & bleeding - the worst part. I assume u have checked the middle fitting is snug?

Id wipe the area clean then carefully put a wrench on each connection and snug it up just a little and monitor.

I have many flare fittings and some of the compression fittings aboard. Doesn't matter. The odds are good that jleonard is right. Get a couple of wrenches and try snugging them up. Don't just grab only the ones for the big nuts, You need one wrench to hold the small hex and one to hold the larger hex. When tightening be sure the wrenches are fully engaged on the flats.

I have made many connections of this nature and it can be very easy to not tighten them quite enough. There may be nothing wrong with the connection but that.

Then wipe it down thoroughly especially the tube going down and monitor for a while.

Tightening the fittings can sometimes be tricky as the threads may bind under load. It’s the reason why some use a thin layer of PTFE tape on the threads of compression fittings and flare fittings - not as a sealing agent, but as a thread lubricant so they tighten more smoothly (and fully).

Flatswing said:

Tightening the fittings can sometimes be tricky as the threads may bind under load. It’s the reason why some use a thin layer of PTFE tape on the threads of compression fittings and flare fittings - not as a sealing agent, but as a thread lubricant so they tighten more smoothly (and fully).

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I have heard flare fittings do not like teflon tapes or thread sealant. i thought it means these sealants actually disservice the sealing in a flare fitting

jleonard said:

Id wipe the area clean then carefully put a wrench on each connection and snug it up just a little and monitor.

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it could also be that someone over tightened the fitting using big wrenches, deformed the olive inside the fitting, causing the leak. in this case, is the only option to replace the fitting?

I guess the theory on using teflon tape is that it's just on the threads and not on the flare or the sealing surfaces and it's just there to reduce the friction between the threads. I don't see that it's necessary and there is the possibility that you might get it on the sealing surfaces.
If it's a compression fitting (has an olive) it shouldn't be there in the first place, so cut it out and redo correctly.
If I was the OP I'd try tightening the fitting.

paulga said:

it could also be that someone over tightened the fitting using big wrenches, deformed the olive inside the fitting, causing the leak. in this case, is the only option to replace the fitting?

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Not just the fitting. You may have to cut the line back past where the olive is, the copper may have been deformed in that area.

paulga said:

it could also be that someone over tightened the fitting using big wrenches, deformed the olive inside the fitting, causing the leak. in this case, is the only option to replace the fitting?

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Probably. But you wont know until you try to tighten and i mean just a little.
By the way, if the leak is only just enough to make the area wet ( as in no noticeable loss of fluid in the reservoir) it might be wise to let it be. Wrap a small piece of oil diaper around it and monitor.

There have been a couple of mentions of an olive, which is also called a ferrule, these are used in compression fittings. The working pressure of compression fittings is lower than the possible pressure seen in a steering system so it's not advisable to use them.
For example, I have Kobelt helm pump and cylinder. They want you to have a system capable of taking 1000psi of hydraulic pressure. I don't know what other manufacturers spec but I've no reason to think that Kobelt is unique. In the pic it looks to be a brass fitting, a brass compression fitting that size is rated for about 200psi.

@sean9c
I was my thinking it probably only weeps when there is no more travel of the piston..

My Teleflex system was 500 psi and i believe the Hynautic was the same.

SteveK said:

@sean9c
I was my thinking it probably only weeps when there is no more travel of the piston..

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There should be a pressure relief valve somewhere. Some are built into the helm pumps. They bleed pressure from one side to the other

sean9c said:

I guess the theory on using teflon tape is that it's just on the threads and not on the flare or the sealing surfaces and it's just there to reduce the friction between the threads. I don't see that it's necessary and there is the possibility that you might get it on the sealing surfaces.
If it's a compression fitting (has an olive) it shouldn't be there in the first place, so cut it out and redo correctly.
If I was the OP I'd try tightening the fitting.

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I tried the fitting last night using two small spanners, but the fitting was already tightened.

is it possible to just replace this fitting w/o first draining all the steering fluid?

Don't quit yet.
These fitting can seep.
you need to hold the center and crank on the nut. It only works on compression. Do the top ad bottom nuts. The smallest of movement in the fitting can create a seal. You can also try backing off the nut slightly then re setting the nut.
Clean and dry. and see what happens.
Wrap with a blue shop paper towel. Very easy to see if leaking turns dark blue.

paulga said:

I tried the fitting last night using two small spanners, but the fitting was already tightened.

is it possible to just replace this fitting w/o first draining all the steering fluid?

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Well if it's a flare fitting, and that's what it looks like, you won't be able to replace the nuts, since you can't get them past the flare. I guess you could replace the connector, at this point it can't hurt to try.

Greg QS said:

Don't quit yet.
These fitting can seep.
you need to hold the center and crank on the nut. It only works on compression. Do the top ad bottom nuts. The smallest of movement in the fitting can create a seal. You can also try backing off the nut slightly then re setting the nut.
Clean and dry. and see what happens.
Wrap with a blue shop paper towel. Very easy to see if leaking turns dark blue.

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I tightened with some reserve because overtightening could make it leak worse it would become an immediate concern, while the current leak is still very slow

sean9c said:

Well if it's a flare fitting, and that's what it looks like, you won't be able to replace the nuts, since you can't get them past the flare. I guess you could replace the connector, at this point it can't hurt to try.

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what connector can be used in place of the compression fitting?

paulga said:

what connector can be used in place of the compression fitting?

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Well I'm pretty sure that's not a compression fitting, it's a flare fitting. If you want to try something to try and stop it leaking the only thing you can replace is the connector. It's this piece here
If is indeed a compression fitting, there is nothing you can do. The ferrules are crushed, you just have to cut it out and replace. Hopefully with the more correct flare fitting.
I hate to point out the obvious but this is your steering system, it's kinda important. If you are unfamiliar with tube fittings it might be time to find someone to help.

sean9c said:

Well I'm pretty sure that's not a compression fitting, it's a flare fitting. If you want to try something to try and stop it leaking the only thing you can replace is the connector. It's this piece here

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If is indeed a compression fitting, there is nothing you can do. The ferrules are crushed, you just have to cut it out and replace. Hopefully with the more correct flare fitting.
I hate to point out the obvious but this is your steering system, it's kinda important. If you are unfamiliar with tube fittings it might be time to find someone to help.

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i see, it does look more like a flare fitting than it looks like a compression fitting.

while I won't try anything soon, just want to get my mind oriented to what to expect, could you give an outline of work on how to take the connector off, inspect and replace the connector?

Your post #1 has an arrow pointing to a compression fitting and then you talk about a flare fitting.

Are you writing a book? You remind me of Perry Mason, never asked a question he did not already know the answer to.

SteveK said:

Your post #1 has an arrow pointing to a compression fitting and then you talk about a flare fitting.

Are you writing a book? You remind me of Perry Mason, never asked a question he did not already know the answer to.

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Maybe that's my fault. I looked at the picture and saw what I thought was a flare connector. Likely because my thought was that using a compression fitting would be inappropriate and since it's hard to tell one from the other in a picture I went with flare.
It doesn't make any difference one way or the other. It leaks, fix it.

paulga said:

I tightened with some reserve because overtightening could make it leak worse it would become an immediate concern, while the current leak is still very slow

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Not on these fittings. Tightening will not increase the leak. It needs to be tight. Flare or compression. I'm in the trades.

Greg QS said:

Not on these fittings. Tightening will not increase the leak. It needs to be tight. Flare or compression. I'm in the trades.

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i can try a torque wrench
the nuts on both ends are 13/16" hex, the middle part is 11/16"
should i set the torque to 30 in lbs?

Hold the middle with your wrench as not to twist the fitting or pipe. Brace it against the bulkhead if possible. Just get the nut to move . It will . I do not know what torque it will be. These are big fittings and need to be really tight. The trick is not to twist the pipe only he nut