New Member with Question Regarding Annual Maintenance Cost

I am a new member here with a question regarding the average annual maintenance cost for a 1989 Grand Banks 42. We put in an offer and ate pending full survey. However, the initial estimate for items needed immediately is $10K.

I would appreciate any information on what to expect to keep an older boat in good condition.

Thank you in advance!

Best regards,
.
Diana

I see you're in the Houston area so I'll assume a warm climate for maintenance. It makes a difference due to sun and sea-critter growth.

Bottom diver. Probably need one about 8x per year. $150-$200 each with zincs.

Bottom paint. Every two years. Budget $4k-$6k for the haul, paint, service prop line cutters, and some other stuff that invariably pops up.

Engine service every 200 hours of usage. Depends on whether you're a diy person ($150/each engine including impellers and such) or hire a mechanic who will also do some other stuff like align engine. $1200-$1750. Budget once a year (generator should be done at same time).

Brightwork. Again, DIY is cheap but having it hired out is pretty expensive due to travel time. $1500 every 2-years.

Upgrades and repairs are two other categories that can get pretty expensive. For example, a full fly bridge enclosure can run $12k-$15k. New dinghy and OB between $6k for something small to over $12k for something that will plane with 3-4 people. Ground tackle can run $5k for anchor plus chain rode and shackles.

I hope this helps. Newbies sometimes share their survey recommendations to get a group-think response.

Peter

Much depends on how it has been maintained or neglected all along.

You will find people here that will give estimates that barely keep it afloat and operating, and others that will maintain it to Bristol or new like condition. That will vary the answer from thousands per year to tens of thousands.

If well maintained..... use those estimates, if poorly maintained, multiply by 2 or 3.

Then there is self help, then all the way to top professionally maintained. Professional labor costs to up near $200/hr for some things and can depend where you are located versus the labor required.

Best to get a feel for specific item repair costs, then look at a variety of annual costs by a wide variety of responders.

Pretty much ignore the people who claim their numbers are accurate except that they ARE accurate for those people, not nearly everyone.

psneeld said:

Much depends on how it has been maintained or neglected all along.

You will find people here that will give estimates that barely keep it afloat and operating, and others that will maintain it to Bristol or new like condition. That will vary the answer from thousands per year to tens of thousands.

If well maintained use those guesses, if poorly maintained, multiply by 2 or 3.

Then there is self help all the way to top professionally maintained. Labor costs to up near $200/hr for some things and can depend where you are located to the labor required.

Best to get a feel for specific item repair costs, then look at a variety of annual costs by a wide variety of responders.

Pretty much ignore the people who claim their numbers are accurate except that they ARE accurate for those people, not nearly everyone.

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Well, you owned a roughly similar boat for quite a few years (albin 40 if I recall) in a somewhat similar climate. I would think that at the very least you could give some WAG on what it cost you with the caveat that you did much of the work yourself.

The OP is trying to make a budget for maintenance items. Some sort of starting point - even if off - is helpful. As the saying goes, it's hard to tell a tadpole what it's like to be a frog. But we can try.

As an aside, as a guy who did early-phase business cases for Fortune 500 clients thinking about pursuing major projects, answers like "it depends" from on-staff employees is what kept me in business.

I do respect the highly variable nature of answers. But you have to start somewhere to build a budget.

Peter

On average expect to pay 10% of the purchase price in maintenance. Now, no one is average. Some one is going to post how they spend much less but, they won’t mention that they do all their own work and have no fear of their boat breaking down away from home because they can fix anything. The next guy will post he spends much more but, he won’t mention that he crosses oceans and his boat is Bristol.

when you are looking at a 1989 boat you need to realize that it is 35 years old. While the hull and engines could easily have a 60 year life span, the boat systems often have less than a 20 year life span. So are you looking at a boat that has been recently updated or is it all original? This will change the cost of maintenance.

How many accessories does the boat have? Is it stabilized, watermaker, diesel heat, air conditioning? The more systems, the higher the maintenance.

I can’t give you a very accurate answer because my cost swing wildly from year to year but on a 35 year old boat I’ve had to replace wiper motors, crane motors, battery banks, air conditioners, stove, refrigerator, water pumps, hoses, cutlass bearings, the list goes on.

So in the end expect 10% of purchase price, less if the boat is less than 10 years old and a lot more if the boat is old and behind on maintenance.

Welcome aboard. Whatever you budget count on it costing way more.

This is like getting married. If you're worried about the cost, you missed the point of doing it.

By now you should have a pretty good idea of what dockage and insurance will cost. If not, find out. If you double that and can swing it, you will have a good place to start. If you find you use the boat and enjoy using the boat, you will work improvements into your budget. If you find you're not using the boat or don't enjoy it as much as you thought, sell it. It's easy to have a 5 figure annual budget for a boat that sits at the dock.

If your biggest annual expense isn't fuel, you're not cruising enough.

Ted

It can also depend on local costs which can vary by area. Here in southern BC, Canada on the west coast, I spent around $10,000 per year without leaving the dock (moorage, insurance, etc.). On top of that, doing almost all of my own work, I spent another say $1000 just for supplies like oil, filters, impellers, etc. just for routine maintenance like oil and filter changes, fuel filters, impeller change, etc. every year. Then, there would be larger expenses every few years like dripless shaft seal maintenance, cutlass bearing, prop repair, replacement anchor chain, haulout, bottom paint, bow thruster maintenance, etc., etc., etc. Labour costs when needing professional help is well over $100 per hour, often starting from the shop and not stopping until they arrive back there. Also, on an older boat there will be things that just plain need replacing due to age, and some items will fail requiring repair or replacement.
I don't agree with the 10% of purchase price estimate due to the fact that an older less expensive boat will need more put into it than a newer more expensive boat, and the 10% idea indicates the reverse.
To keep an older boat in good condition is not inexpensive, and could easily run over $20,000 per year on average (including moorage, insurance, etc.) and in my experience in some years even more.

mvweebles said:

I see you're in the Houston area so I'll assume a warm climate for maintenance. It makes a difference due to sun and sea-critter growth.

Bottom diver. Probably need one about 8x per year. $150-$200 each with zincs.

Bottom paint. Every two years. Budget $4k-$6k for the haul, paint, service prop line cutters, and some other stuff that invariably pops up.

Engine service every 200 hours of usage. Depends on whether you're a diy person ($150/each engine including impellers and such) or hire a mechanic who will also do some other stuff like align engine. $1200-$1750. Budget once a year (generator should be done at same time).

Brightwork. Again, DIY is cheap but having it hired out is pretty expensive due to travel time. $1500 every 2-years.

Upgrades and repairs are two other categories that can get pretty expensive. For example, a full fly bridge enclosure can run $12k-$15k. New dinghy and OB between $6k for something small to over $12k for something that will plane with 3-4 people. Ground tackle can run $5k for anchor plus chain rode and shackles.

I hope this helps. Newbies sometimes share their survey recommendations to get a group-think response.

Peter

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Thank you!

mvweebles said:

Well, you owned a roughly similar boat for quite a few years (albin 40 if I recall) in a somewhat similar climate. I would think that at the very least you could give some WAG on what it cost you with the caveat that you did much of the work yourself.

The OP is trying to make a budget for maintenance items. Some sort of starting point - even if off - is helpful. As the saying goes, it's hard to tell a tadpole what it's like to be a frog. But we can try.

As an aside, as a guy who did early-phase business cases for Fortune 500 clients thinking about pursuing major projects, answers like "it depends" from on-staff employees is what kept me in business.

I do respect the highly variable nature of answers. But you have to start somewhere to build a budget.

Peter

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Well, guess I am experienced enough to know the numbers could be all over the place so as I suggested in my last post....post some specifics and I will answer...I gave up writing book long posts awhile back when OP's said I was way off their plans and a bunch of TF "experts" argued with my numbers/suggestions....

While many here were off doing all sorts of jobs (non-boat related)..... I was repairing all kinds of boats and most of their systems in situations exactly as I stated in my first post.

Having read some of your posts on work done in Mexico, you know prices and quality of work can be all over the map let alone boats original condition.

Something as simple as posting the asking price can start a more in depth discussion suggesting it's current condition and types of maintenance that will be one time, spread over a couple years or a decade like my boat.

I will be glad to be more specific when the questions are a little more specific and outlined better, as I usually do.

dianajcross said:

However, the initial estimate for items needed immediately is $10K.

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What are those repair items?

Starting with a 15 year old boat in 2021... I've had to replace a freshwater pump, microwave, two ACs, windlass and foot switches, three bilge pumps and four float switches, numerous door and drawer latches, a VHF antenna, four CO detectors, pressure regulator for shorewater, the icemaker in our galley freezer, the central vac hose inlet, sliding door trucks, washer/dryer, several plumbing valves, the systems monitor, the two VacuFlush bellows, four engine room light fixtures, one G24 and six 8D batteries, an MFD... plus a bazillion light "bulbs" (mostly with LEDs)... plus a main engine gear control unit, and a main engine electronic control board. And probably several other more minor replacements, like missing or failed fasteners or gas shocks or whatever.

I also had to rehab the engines just after purchase, to bring them back into compliance with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule... but at least most of that was negotiated out in the purchase price.

-Chris

In reading the replies, you are probably more confused than anything else at this point. In that reguard you didn't provide any real information on the boat. As one asked, $10K for what.

Buying a boat is a commitment to keeping the boat safe. What that takes depends on how you are going to use her, the boat.

I'd be willing to PM with you so we can get to specifics, when you are ready.

Have fun & good luck.

Just remember when getting information from any source, some are great at explaining many different points of view because they have either experienced them or been immersed in all forms of boating for a long time.

Be wary of the types that keep repeating "what I did was....."...not that it is bad info necessarily, but it could be focused on a very narrow point of view.

dianajcross said:

I am a new member here with a question regarding the average annual maintenance cost for a 1989 Grand Banks 42. We put in an offer and ate pending full survey. However, the initial estimate for items needed immediately is $10K.
....
Diana

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There is the maintenance cost of owning the boat, which is not the same as the total cost of boat ownership, which I consider the operating budget. Maintenance is the cost of keeping things working and being presentable and this can vary from owner to owner and boat to boat and place to place. The operating budget is maintenance costs plus insurance, docking/mooring fees, fuel, etc. The operating costs depend on how one uses the boat, where, and how much, which also impacts the maintenance costs.

The best article and link spreadsheet I have found on this subject is at the Morgan's Cloud website, Estimating The Cost of Maintaining a Cruising Boat. This is behind a paywall but well worth the money. You can modify the spreadsheet based on your situation and how you think you will keep and operate the boat.

Like most have said, it depends on the initial condition of the vessel and accessories on board. And your skill level and experience.

I bought my Bayliner 3870 in 2016. Paid $56K for her knowing I was going to be spending a lot more on bringing her back to reasonable life as she had sat in heavy west coast rain at a dock for almost two years. This without any real maintenance over that time.

I used to say 10% of the capital cost would be needed each year to maintain a vessel in reasonable condition. If you use the boat much this is way too low a figure. I have over $300K in her at this point. Maybe $35 to 40K per year with maintenance & upgrades like - water maker; hard top over cockpit; tunnel extensions on bottom; sola panels; major engine maintenance on both; new generator; new flooring; new upholstery; new mattresses; hull & deck work; new helm chairs & bridge chairs; new electronics; new charger/inverter; additional charger; freezer; major rewiring; Ice maker; coffee maker; fridge repairs, it goes on and on.

Insurance is getting more demanding and expensive as the boat ages even with excellent maintenance.

So in answer to your original question, it depends on so many things that there really is no answer for you in your situation. If I surveyed your boat and interviewed you on your skill level and experience I might be able to give you and educated guess but that is all that it would be because of controllable and uncontrol able variances. Sorry!

The 10% of purchase price is what it's been costing me each year so far.

1) Purchase year - replace both heads - $11,000
2) Last year, bottom paint & through hulls, shaft packing, swim platform bracket, and a buff & shine - $11,000
3) This year, all new batteries, new inverter / charger, stereo and refrigerator - $10,000

And the year ain't over yet -

At a very broad level, assuming the GB42 is in an active boating market (PNW, California, Florida, etc), ownership costs are in the $15k (+/- 20% or so) per year. This includes slip, insurance, utilities, diver, semi-annual haul/paint, general scheduled maintenance (engine service / brightwork), fuel for 100-200 hours of use per year, and some odds and ends. Maybe some wear items such as periodic canvas replacement. Does not include purchase cost, upgrades, repairs or replacements - blown engine/generator, etc.

While I'm sure folks will argue my $15k number (+/- 20%), no one has come forward with decent numbers on their own so I'd be suspect of any tomatoes they toss at me .

Peter

I was going to answer in the 4 categories of self help vs marina and good versus bristol work. That would almost bracket the costs but I (and everyone else should) need at least the definition of "annual maintenance" and "good condition".

Some boats will need $15000-$30000 dollar projects each year for at least a few years to bring a boat to a lot of people's standards if a marina does them....total self help in the right yard may keep each project to a couple thousand in materials.

I have seen that era trawler with a $300,000 refit and others not really need a thing other than minor DIY repairs. Others I know where people brought it up to safe cruising and habitable standards for a few thousand here and there over their first 5-10 years ownership.

By answering those few simple questions, it narrows the answers to be almost useful in my book.

If your biggest annual expense isn't fuel, you're not cruising enough.

Ted

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Oh Ted, Not everyone goes from A to B over thousands of miles. My fuel costs are the least of expenses. But we spend a couple nights in one spot, move to another spot 1-2 hours away, rinse and repeat.

As for costs, once I have spent the purchase price of the boat I usually sell and start over. It is not an investment. So I have not found a true annual cost, but will agree 10% annual rule of thumb except the first year about 25%.

Steve,
I don't think the 10% of cost is really very useful except as a guess in limited situations. For example, if I buy a newer (less than 5 years old), larger boat for $2 million (that has been well serviced), I would not expect to pay $200,000 annual maintenance costs, just like it would be unrealistic to buy a 40 year old boat (that has received less than good maintenance) for $50,000 and expect maintenance to only cost $5,000 annually. That is of course assuming that the term "maintenance costs" includes things like routine maintenance (oil changes, etc.), repairs, replacement of broken items, maybe even upgrades, etc.
Without knowing about the exact boat (make, model, systems, age, etc.) and the use and maintenance history, it is difficult to provide these types of estimates with any real degree of accuracy
JMHO.

psneeld said:

I was going to answer in the 4 categories of self help vs marina and good versus bristol work. That would almost bracket the costs but I (and everyone else should) need at least the definition of "annual maintenance" and "good condition".

Some boats will need $15000-$30000 dollar projects each year for at least a few years to bring a boat to a lot of people's standards if a marina does them....total self help in the right yard may keep each project to a couple thousand in materials.

I have seen that era trawler with a $300,000 refit and others not really need a thing other than minor DIY repairs. Others I know where people brought it up to safe cruising and habitable standards for a few thousand here and there over their first 5-10 years ownership.

By answering those few simple questions, it narrows the answers to be almost useful in my book.

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As a management consultant who specialized in large IT transformation projects for Global 2000 clients, I developed a close relationship with senior executives because I would give an actionable answer based on defensible assumptions whereas their own employees - their management team - would equivocate and not give a direct answer for a variety of reasons. Really frustrating for senior decision-makers to have to hire outside consultants at a high price just to get simple go/no-go decision information. Defensible assumptions and compensating errors seemed to home in on a recommendation that was correct enough to make a decision.

I must have done a decent job - many of my clients moved into different jobs and took me with them. I totally get the reluctance to provide guidance - there are always a million reasons to be cautious. But that safe philosophy is not the one that transforms life.

$15k-$20k per year to keep a GB42 afloat is helpful information for a newbie in the bleachers to at least decide whether he can afford to dip is toe further. A bunch of gobbly-gook with "it depends" is interesting but not helpful, at least not yet.

Peter

It's not caution...it's trying to pass on knowledge that is useful....clear and concise..... got pretty good at that in my jobs to...and a LOT of them involved other boaters at all levels. I am sure the executives didn't pay a lot of money for general answers derived on less than specific goals. Either wat a "plan" or I am sure they answered some questions before you ran off in a specific direction.

Too many boaters I have seen head off in the wrong direction from salesman fluff or just plain incomplete advice and give it up, or sit on their dock queen till they sell it for lots of reasons.

So BAD advice or useless advice can be as dangerous as "cautious" advice.

Hopefully the OP will return with specifics...answers to my basic questions and we can get back on track.

firehoser75 said:

Steve,
I don't think the 10% of cost is really very useful except as a guess in limited situations.

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The problem with the 10% number is it is urban legend. There is no data to support it. It's a way to avoid answering the question in a usable way. It's just a number everyone uses but without any substantive data.

Peter

psneeld said:

It's not caution...it's trying to pass on knowledge that is useful....clear and concise..... got pretty good at that in my jobs to...and a LOT of them involved other boaters at all levels.

Too many boaters I have seen head off in the wrong direction from salesman fluff or just plain incomplete advice and give it up, or sit on their dock queen till they sell it for lots of reasons.

So BAD advice or useless advice can be as dangerous as "cautious" advice.

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Got a better number than $15k-$20k for base ownership and sustain costs (absent capital costs)? Please share.....that's what the OP is looking for. Not a condescending pat on the head because everything is bad advice (except you can't substantial any of it - just throw tomatoes).

Decent data from your experience? I didn't think so - always a reason to say "it depends." Poke holes in $15k-$20k per year for a GB42 (base sustain costs). You had a Albin 40 - should be fairly close. Surprised you can't come up with a helpful answer besides "any answer is wrong."

per my last post....

"Hopefully the OP will return with specifics...answers to my basic questions and we can get back on track."

Let’s get back to reality.

Owner A buys newer and fixes nothing. He has the lowest cost of maintenance and the highest loss in depreciation.

Owner B buys older and fixes everything like new. He has the highest cost of maintenance and the lowest loss in depreciation.

Every other owner falls some where in the middle.

As I said in a previous post, 10% of purchase price is an average and no one is average. As soon as you ask me to prove 10% I know you haven’t been reading the posts. We all know the answer is “it depends”.

So ask your self, are you closer to owner A or to owner B? Are you only concerned with maintenance cost or is depreciation a concern as well?

Hello Diana,

There are a group of GB 42 we are friends with, seven boats total. We are mostly Texas folk.

PM me and I will put you in touch.

Go my GB blog, grandbankschoices.

Mike

tiltrider1 said:

...... As soon as you ask me to prove 10% I know you haven’t been reading the posts. We all know the answer is “it depends”.

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Here is a quote from the OP:

"I would appreciate any information on what to expect to keep an older [GB42] in good condition."

With all the knowledge and deep subject matter expertise on this forum from serial posters, many of who have owned boats very close to a GB42, "it depends" is all you got?

Note to OP - despite some several folks doubling down on "it depends," no one has poked holes in $15k-$20k per year with appropriate assumptions.

Peter

For example, if I buy a newer (less than 5 years old), larger boat for $2 million (that has been well serviced), I would not expect to pay $200,000 annual maintenance costs,

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Tom, If you or I can afford a $2 million dollar boat then I sure expect to be paying $200,000 in maintenance to keep it shining new. What with labour costs for cooks and waitresses I hope $200K will cover it.

The problem with the 10% number is it is urban legend. There is no data to support it. It's a way to avoid answering the question in a usable way. It's just a number everyone uses but without any substantive data.

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Peter, I said 10% rule of thumb and add on a yearly average. That means in 10 years or less you have maintained the boat at the original purchase price.
Fortunately for myself and several others, sweat equity offsets many of those $$$.