Help with Dockmate vs. lower helm station

I would love some help with a boat I am looking at this weekend, a Mainship 34 with a FB, looks to be in very good shape. However, the PO opted for no lower helm station, installed a Dockmate remote instead, mainly so he could single-hand through locks, which is also what I want to be able to do. I haven't used Dockmate, but I know some of you have, and I have heard good things about it generally.
My concern is that I also would like to be able to run the boat when it is colder, or in rainy weather, when driving from the FB is not so much fun. As far as I know, you can't steer with Dockmate other than with the thrusters.
The broker said the PO priced out installing a lower helm, and that it would not be a complicated job, so I will check that out carefully while I am on the boat. He may be right, but he is a broker, after all.
The boat does not have heating, like many NW boats do, so even with a lower helm station it might not work.
How reliable does Dockmate seem to be, compared with more traditional thruster and engine controls?
Thanks for your help.
Peter

An autopilot remote station might be suitable for the lower helm. Does the dock mate control the gears and throttle?

My MS 34, 2006 also does not have lower steering. In my case , living/boating in southern Louisiana, this is not a problem a northern boat has. I cannot help you with the dockmate question. I can however tell you the visibility from the lower station is poor.
With our crab traps, debris in water, etc I would only use the lower station in a heavy rain storm. How offen will you be boating in winter ?

I agree with @keith c My experience with this boat and friends who own one is the visibility would be poor and a lower station is more or less standing room only. Takes up what little salon space there is. I would probably pass and consider the autopilot option if you don't want to be up top (but not really safe to do it this way, you need to have a good watch and lower helm is not ideal.

Thanks for your help. I was told that the dock mate controls the thrusters, gears and engine, but I want to confirm that. An autopilot station would certainly be a good idea.
The broker actually told me that lower station visibility isn't very good, as you said, Keith. I don't know how late into the year I would be on the boat, for now it is more that I don't like the idea of only being able to drive from the upper helm.
This boat is a 2005, so probably pretty similar to yours, and there is a lot about it that I like, so definitely worth taking a look.

You could add a compact lower station with just engine controls and a follow up lever. Perhaps more reliable than a wireless system like dockmate?

PNK said:

Thanks for your help. I was told that the dock mate controls the thrusters, gears and engine, but I want to confirm that. An autopilot station would certainly be a good idea.

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I think I've read that the Dockmate controls gears, not not throttle. No first-hand knowledge. And it may have been a Yacht Controller I was reading about, anyway. OTOH the "dock" in Dockmate does seem suggestive.

A boat neighbor found his remote system (dunno what brand) inop when he came back to the marina for Spring commissioning. He eventually got it working, but we went on his first re-positioning trip with only his normal manual controls.

-Chris

The dockmate should do you just fine. It does allow throttle, shifting and bow thruster control. Since you already have it if you buy the boat, try it for a while. ITs advantage (and competitor Yacht Controller) is that you can use it anywhere on the boat--fly bridge, bow, side deck, stern. A built in docking station has but one location. You can operate the boat from the helm, and when you approach a dock, lock, or whatever, hit the take-over button on the dockmate, and step out on the deck with control over your boat. Anywhere you want on the boat. Make the broker demonstrate it to you. It is amazing.

Should be fact checked but I thought Dockmate does not allow much throttle control? Perhaps only at a single power (RPM) level. So might not be usable at normal navigation speed.

Good point. There are different levels of the remote, and age of the boat can be a factor. Again, all this can be answered when you check out the boat as the Dockmate is supposedly installed.

Had not thought about operating it at "normal navigation speed." To me it is a docking or close quarter manuevring tool. My boat (an old Nordhavn) has a wire control remote for the auto pilot that can be used to change direciton. I'll sit on the bow and use it in open water or on a river or wide canal at low speed.

I assume the boat has electronic throttles or actuators if it has a dockmate. Depending on the type, it is not that costly to have a lower throttle station. On my boat, the control station (Microcommander 585CE) costs around $400 and all it needs is an 8-conductor wire to the actuators. Then you need to install the stop engine buttons. If you have that and the autopilot control, you are all set to go. But try the dockmate first, you may like it the way it is.

I saw the boat this morning, and it was helpful having your comments ahead of time. There was a lot about the boat that I liked, more than I expected, especially the engine room access, which was one of the best I have seen on a boat this size. And the molded steps up to the FB, instead of the usual ladder, is a great safety feature, especially at my age.
The Dockmaster definitely controls the transmission, engine speed and thrusters, plus the windlass. You can't steer with it, though.
Putting in a lower helm station is feasible, but now I understand the comments about lousy visibility- hard to understand how a company like Mainship, with all their experience, couldn't design something better. This boat has a separate, stand-up shower, which essentially takes the space normally used by the lower helm controls. Nice to have, for sure.
Adding autopilot, with a remote station, is probably the best idea you gave me, but to use the boat the way I would like would require more fresh-water tankage, more freezer space, a FB enclosure, and maybe heat.
Or a water maker instead of a larger tank. There is plenty of space in the engine room, but by the time I added all the cost, I could probably buy a 38 that already has everything I wanted.
Interestingly, the current owner bought the boat 2 years ago, and in all that time he has put a total of 2 hours on the boat. It's a 2005, and only has 600 hours on the engine, so maybe the other PO's found they couldn't use it the way they thought.
Now I just have to find it. Looking is pretty educational, though.
Plus the Rondout Yacht Basin turns out to be just the kind of place I would like to keep a boat; quiet, calm, super casual, with very friendly boaters happy to share what they know, even though none of them knew me!

PNK said:

Putting in a lower helm station is feasible, but now I understand the comments about lousy visibility- hard to understand how a company like Mainship, with all their experience, couldn't design something better.

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I think they designed to meet the needs of their expected market... within cost constraints guided by that market's likely budget.

Probably their largest market segment had been coastal, fair-weather cruisers, operating the boat from the flying bridge, with a lower helm for when weather gets a bit wet or a bit cold. I'd guess their thinking was tht a raised pilothouse would offer better visibility, at additional cost, and then wouldn't necessarily be used much.

I think the same market-driven reasoning causes many builders to stuff in an extra stateroom, when "one less" would make a pretty nifty boat. (Our previous boat.) Their expectation is probably that they wont sell many boats with "one less" stateroom if there's any way at all to cram another one in.

FWIW, we had an '87 Mk III, with lower helm. Didn't use it often. Partly because of reduced visibility in our world of crab pots every 12 feet... but also partly because we didn't need to use it, the flybridge was usually better, more comfortable, etc.

-Chris

What's a dock mate?
[A: That place where you tie your boat, buddy.]

Sorry. Couldn't resist. But to add something hopefully constructive, I do have a lower helm station and have used it exactly once - just to try it out - in the 8 years since I've bought the boat. Likewise on previous boat's I've run. I have a full vinyl enclosure, which makes a huge difference in cool weather.

Thanks for all the helpful comments.( Except I thought a "dock mate" was the guy standing on the dock who caught your line!)
This morning I started adding up the estimated cost to add a full enclosure on the FB, an autopilot station, a dinghy and some kind of bracket to hold it, and a larger freshwater tank, or a watermaker, which resulted in this boat actually costing far north of $200K. It is in great shape, and has very low hours, but it would still be smaller than what I really want, and no longer such a good deal.
If I had more money I would love to buy the Helmsman Nick is selling, but even though it is a fantastic price for an essentially new boat, it is more than double what I am comfortable spending.
Good thing I enjoy the hunt.
Peter

No, you cannot steer with Dockmate. On the other hand, most skippers using twins do not steer with the rudder when closing on a dock. Best to center the rudder and then use the engines to steer. Dockmate and Yacht Controller (a competitor) allow this. Most docking (auto stxation?) stations do not have rudder control--they have throttle, engine direction (fwd--neutral-aft) and bow/stern thruster. Just like the Dockmate.

PNK said:

......
The broker said the PO priced out installing a lower helm, and that it would not be a complicated job, so I will check that out carefully while I am on the boat. He may be right, but he is a broker, after all.

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I'll call BS on feasibility of installing lower helm on a MS 34. Check the price on a helm pump and a 20,inch Destroyer wheel.

If only for docking, a second gear/throttle station in the cockpit and use the autopilot for helm control (price the controls and whether AP is adaptable - you might be surprised too).

I'm not a fan of remote controls only because I've had them be dead when needed. But that's been in Florida where heat and humidity tend to kill anything with a battery.

Lower helm on my boat isn't good for docking. Fine for distance runs, but not close quarters.

Peter

PNK said:

I would love some help with a boat I am looking at this weekend, a Mainship 34 with a FB, looks to be in very good shape. However, the PO opted for no lower helm station, installed a Dockmate remote instead, mainly so he could single-hand through locks, which is also what I want to be able to do. I haven't used Dockmate, but I know some of you have, and I have heard good things about it generally.
My concern is that I also would like to be able to run the boat when it is colder, or in rainy weather, when driving from the FB is not so much fun. As far as I know, you can't steer with Dockmate other than with the thrusters.
The broker said the PO priced out installing a lower helm, and that it would not be a complicated job, so I will check that out carefully while I am on the boat. He may be right, but he is a broker, after all.
The boat does not have heating, like many NW boats do, so even with a lower helm station it might not work.
How reliable does Dockmate seem to be, compared with more traditional thruster and engine controls?
Thanks for your help.
Peter

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Just my two pen'orth. we have FB and inner helm, we cruise anywhere between Northern Germany and Spain. At sea we use the lower helm entering/leaving port, it lowers the centre of gravity in rough seas, is warmer in Northern climates and we can easily interchange for toilet meal breaks. The FB is darn cold in the Northern climes, it's fine in fine weather but in direct Mediterranean sun it can be brutal. Its all down to your cruising ground and preferences.

We closed the deal on this boat sitting in the flybridge. In December. In the Northeast US. Early the next spring, we brought it home, going North about 100 NM. It snowed one day. Both times it was plenty warm up there.

The full vinyl enclosure keeps it comfortable when it's cold out, and with the vinyl open, the Bimini keeps the sun off when it's hot.

You are very lucky. Because of bridge heights a bimini when cruising in Europe is up and down more often than a lady of the night's underwear
We use our Bimini in Southern ports