Trawler brands with semi-bluewater seaworthiness...

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mvweebles said:
The Defever 44 (and 44+5) has a very nice engine room but not quite standing if I recall. I don't think you need full stand-up headroom, but enough room to move around and store tools and such. I guess my point is resist the urge to pick a boat based on living accomodations for a family of 5. That's really important, but if you're going to be living aboard for significant periods, you really need space to service the equipment. Having the saloon torn-up is a big PITA, especially in hot climates.

My other piece of free advice is don't worry too much about being an ultimate passagemaker. WAG, but since you're not planning on crossing an ocean, something like 95% of your underway hours will be on runs of less than 36-hours; 99.0% less than 48-hours; and 99.9% under 72-hours. I'll go one step further - the only reason you'll go more than 72-hours on a single run is because the weather is good and there's no reason to stop! Patience, seasonal passage planning, seamanship/weather skills aquired along the way, and a subscription to PredictWind will really reduce the risk and make the passages a lot of fun.

Buy a well-maintained example of a well constructed boat. That doesn't mean a passage-maker designed boat, but it does mean buying one in good shape. There are a lot of motoryachts out there that would do fine, especially in the 60-foot range. Yes, they have larger engines - if they have Detroits (Hatt's), they can often be de-rated to comfortably run at much lower power bands.

There are a lot of ways to bring this dream together safely and within a reasonable budget.

BTW - what is your budget for purchase?

Peter
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IMHO it is not a good idea to "lug" a high powered engine. Carbon build-up and problem with igniters.
 
mvweebles said:
I had the same thought when I read the OPs budget of $150K-$200K. OP has a nice sailboat that is setup for long term travel. Lusting over a Nordhavn in that budget is wishful but not realistic. Heck, some buyers of used Nordhavn's pay that much in immediate upgrades and refresh let alone initial purchase.

Finding a decent conditioned boat to house 3 kids and 2 adults working full-time in that budget is a tall order. OP might might find a deal on a converted commercial vessel at a low price (fish, research, military, etc.). Once boats get a bit bigger - say, into the upper 60's on up, the market shrinks considerably because of cost to own so there are some deals out there. But resale will be difficult - could take years even at steep price reduction.

Best success in your dreams!

Peter
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Unfortunately, there are some LRCs that are on the market for $250-$375,000 dollars. But they are "project boats" and it will cost $150,000-$200,000 to bring them back and at least two years to do it.
 
Without having read all the suggestions to alternatives to Norhavns, I agree with Selenes and HATT 58 LRC and would add anything Steve Seaton has designed in your 60-65 ft range. But more importantly, I will add the oldest boat building company bar none. The one that builds everything from dinghies to mega yachts, both sail and power, For over 160 years, the craftsmanship and seaworthiness is unparalleled for the money. What brand gives you the best built, most seaworthy boats for the money? None other than Cheoy Lee.
Examples on YW:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-cheoy-lee-66-lrt-trawler-9340950/ a nice 66 ft bluewater-ish vessel for $329k taxes included.
Or a 14 year newer 68 ft. model for not quite twice the money : https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-cheoy-lee-68-9391233/
Or my personal pick of what is available now:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1982-cheoy-lee-66-lrc-8620422/ Don't let the 1982 put you off. It had a $Million dollar refit in 2009 and several hundred grand since then. She is a beauty and could likely be bought for a cool half million.
A Selene this nice would cost three to four times the price and in m.h.o. is not as proven. I write this from a 50 year old Cheoy Lee Pilothouse that we love. After owning a Grand Banks and cruising on Nordhavns and Masons (sail boats built by PAE, same as Nordhavn) I gotta say, it is worth looking for one that has been cared for and upgraded and updated like this one.
Please let me know if you get this last one.
 
Choy Lee is a great boat. I looked at the last one actually prior to purchasing my 58 LRC. The simplicity and economy of the 4-71 on the repair and maintenance side was what sold me. IMHO the only downside of the LRC is not many came with thrusters. They aren’t necessary but definitely a huge advantage on a boat with this much sail area in a stiff breeze or a current
IMG_6300.jpeg
 
ddickson said:
Hello all,

We are a family of 5 and looking to pick up a trawler in the next year. I have some sailing experience in the Caribbean, around Vancouver Island, and lived aboard a tall ship that went down to the Galapagos islands and then on to Norway. But I don't want to bring my family onto a sailboat.

So we are looking for a trawler!! We like some space, so a 50-65ft vessel is what we have been looking for. I am quite concerned about the seaworthiness of trawlers. I can see that the Nordhavn is a serious boat that could probably go straight across the Atlantic but I don't have the money for one of those today, a couple of pennies short...

We don't want to cross the Atlantic, we want to go down the East Coast into the Caribbean and then possibly down to Brazil and back up again. So it is not exactly blue water cruising but there will be some longer passes that we could attempt. We will spend most of our time diving and snorkelling in the Caribbean islands.

I have been looking at Hatteras, Defever, Grand Banks, Ocean Alexanders, and Kadey-Krogens...It seems like the OA and the KKs are maybe best suited for longer passages but they don't always have much living space or nicely laid out living areas. My kids like to move around so some deck space would be nice and a bit of a swim deck is a 100% must. I was also hoping to be able to get a tender and a jet ski onboard while doing passages (maybe it's a bit of a dream to have both). We need at least 3 cabins as well since we have three kids.

How well suited are these brands for anything other than coastal calmish water cruising? We would probably get something with stabilizers but I don't want to put my family into any super sketchy situations on a boat that's not suited for the Caribbean.

Please, I am not looking for lessons on if I am capable of doing it, if my kids are capable of doing it or if we have any idea what it's like living on a boat...I am just looking for a good conversation on the seaworthiness of these trawler brands and if you have suggestions on other models I should be looking at.

Thank you for reading my post and for all the amazing content on this forum.
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If you have deep pockets check out Bering. They're amazingly capable, huge inside, stable, and built typically from steel. Construction is done in Turkey near where Nordhavn builds some of their most recent boats. You need to set a limit on draft as some of them are pretty deep.
Have fun deciding and make sure you involve all that will be aboard
 
TurtleIV said:
Choy Lee is a great boat. I looked at the last one actually prior to purchasing my 58 LRC. The simplicity and economy of the 4-71 on the repair and maintenance side was what sold me. IMHO the only downside of the LRC is not many came with thrusters. They aren’t necessary but definitely a huge advantage on a boat with this much sail area in a stiff breeze or a current View attachment 157544
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Did you recently sell your 58LRC or is it still for sale?
 
Our 58 Hatteras LRC, Bow to my Stern, has a Vetus 48 volt Bow Thruster and we just replaced a Stern Thruster with Vetus 48 Volt
Stern Rim Drives, the newest technology! Quiet, installed non-intrusively in lazerite and very effective.
There is no other LRC that currently has this incredible feature. When used simultaneously with the bow thruster, We can turn the yacht in tight circles and also move the yacht sideways . We also have stabilizers for when we misjudge ocean conditions.
With the 2450 gallons of diesel in 4 tanks and a fuel burn of 3 gals per hour, the yacht is theoretically capable of running for 800 hours.
On a typical day on the ICW with bridges and other boat traffic at 7 - 7.5 knots per hour, 1300 rpm, we travel about 60 miles per day.
In open sea voyages, with calm seas to 3-4 foot seas with no currents, at 8-8.5 knots at 1400-1450 rpm burning 4 gallons an hour maximum days at sea is 20 days unless fuel bladders are installed for additional fuel.
Thus, theoretically, you could do a trans-Atlantic from East Coast of USA to Bermuda to Azores to Gibraltar.
Probably the most practical method would be to ship your vessel or charter a boat in Europe:)
 
Captain DJ said:
Without having read all the suggestions to alternatives to Norhavns, I agree with Selenes and HATT 58 LRC and would add anything Steve Seaton has designed in your 60-65 ft range. But more importantly, I will add the oldest boat building company bar none. The one that builds everything from dinghies to mega yachts, both sail and power, For over 160 years, the craftsmanship and seaworthiness is unparalleled for the money. What brand gives you the best built, most seaworthy boats for the money? None other than Cheoy Lee.
Examples on YW:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-cheoy-lee-66-lrt-trawler-9340950/ a nice 66 ft bluewater-ish vessel for $329k taxes included.
Or a 14 year newer 68 ft. model for not quite twice the money : https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-cheoy-lee-68-9391233/
Or my personal pick of what is available now:
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1982-cheoy-lee-66-lrc-8620422/ Don't let the 1982 put you off. It had a $Million dollar refit in 2009 and several hundred grand since then. She is a beauty and could likely be bought for a cool half million.
A Selene this nice would cost three to four times the price and in m.h.o. is not as proven. I write this from a 50 year old Cheoy Lee Pilothouse that we love. After owning a Grand Banks and cruising on Nordhavns and Masons (sail boats built by PAE, same as Nordhavn) I gotta say, it is worth looking for one that has been cared for and upgraded and updated like this one.
Please let me know if you get this last one.
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That 82 is so nice!! A bit above my budget for the moment.
 
Wow, there is some great info on this thread. A lot to consider. @Hippocampus you made some good points.

I will probably not do longer passages and after looking at the trip down to Brazil it's probably out of the question. I have checked out some trawler channels like Mermaid Monster and it seems like most of the long hauls are around 12-15 hours but they could also be cut in half.

We are not on a schedule and have no desire to be in hurricane season. We had a hurricane pass over us on the Baja while we were there in our RV and it was not the best experience. No need to run that gauntlet on a boat with my family. I'm not that stupid.

I have found a couple of Steel full displacement trawlers with 3000+ NM range in good condition or needing a bit of work, nothing I can't personally handle. They are 55ft+ at 65-tons. The ones I am looking at are single screw without a wing engine. I just saw another Cheoy Lee that looks like it could be interesting but may need more work than I want to put in.
 
In NA metal boats aren’t as popular as glass. So often very fairly priced. But a professionally constructed metal boat is more resistant to abrasion or puncture. One needs to be careful as to who made the vessel. Everything from scantlings, design, plumbing and electrical etc. has to be done in accordance to best practice for that material. Would be very nervous about home brew or small house construction and outfitting. However would have no reluctance taking my loved ones long range cruising on a good Fe boat. As you shop may sure you go with someone familiar with steel and only use a surveyor with great experience in steel boats. That said my current dreamboat is a Fe hull/Al superstructure monster of an explorer yacht. A Doggersbank 77 or 67.
 
Curious how you came up with 12-15hr. Typical New England Caribbean is 7-14 DAYS. Yes going down island hopping is inside a day but it’s difficult going from Panama to eastern Caribbean. Yes you can do the entire northern perimeter of the Caribbean Sea but that’s time consuming. Maybe Peter will chime in. He’s very knowledgeable about western Mexico and north/west parts of Caribbean Sea. Times/ distances in pacific are typically longer than the Atlantic.
 
Hippocampus said:
Curious how you came up with 12-15hr. Typical New England Caribbean is 7-14 DAYS. Yes going down island hopping is inside a day but it’s difficult going from Panama to eastern Caribbean. Yes you can do the entire northern perimeter of the Caribbean Sea but that’s time consuming. Maybe Peter will chime in. He’s very knowledgeable about western Mexico and north/west parts of Caribbean Sea. Times/ distances in pacific are typically longer than the Atlantic.
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I caught the 12-hour statement too. I assumed it was in reference to Mermaid Monster, but I haven't watched their channel in a few years.

The Western Caribbean is challenging. Best I can tell, there are some very solid pockets of great cruising (Bocas del Toros, San Blas Islands, Rio Dulce, etc.) but distances between them is fairly sizeable (+400nms), weather isn't great, and there are some geopolitical issues to deal with such as piracy off NE Nicuragua. We're still figuring out how well tackle it - and whether it will be next spring or the one after.

Peter

EDIT - here's a chartlet I made to show the distances. Some are not correct, but you get the idea
 

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Mako said:
Did you recently sell your 58LRC or is it still for sale?
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I just bought it in may.still rubbing the “new” off of it and getting used to it. I stepped up from a 32 searay so it’s been a learning experience. Many more systems but most very simple to figure out and work on if necessary. Luckily other that replacing a fiberglass exhaust tube on port side it’s mostly been just deferred maintenance items or ocd maintenance items.
 
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TurtleIV said:
I just bought it in may.still rubbing the “new” off of it and getting used to it. I stepped up from a 32 searay so it’s been a learning experience. Many more systems but most very simple to figure out and work on if necessary. Luckily other that replacing a fiberglass exhaust tube on port side it’s mostly been just deferred maintenance items or ocd maintenance items.
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Did you keep the covered storage?
 
Hippocampus said:
Curious how you came up with 12-15hr. Typical New England Caribbean is 7-14 DAYS. Yes going down island hopping is inside a day but it’s difficult going from Panama to eastern Caribbean. Yes you can do the entire northern perimeter of the Caribbean Sea but that’s time consuming. Maybe Peter will chime in. He’s very knowledgeable about western Mexico and north/west parts of Caribbean Sea. Times/ distances in pacific are typically longer than the Atlantic.
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I mean from island to island, anchorage to anchorage. I would be taking my time and not trying to do overnights and long hauls.
 
BowtomyStern said:
The 58 Hatteras LRc has 4 center lined fuel tanks is carried 2450 gallons of diesel and with Detroit Diesels 471 naturals (no turbos, or computers) .
It burns 2-3 gallons an hour at 1300-1500 rpm. 7-9 knots.
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Mine seems to average 4.5 - 5 gph running 1300 rpm roughly 8.5 kts, and a 20kw gen running 5.5 tons of AC. Are u running a gen and getting that fuel burn?
 
TurtleIV said:
Mine seems to average 4.5 - 5 gph running 1300 rpm roughly 8.5 kts, and a 20kw gen running 5.5 tons of AC. Are u running a gen and getting that fuel burn?
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Our travelers down central Mexico paralleled a Hatt 58 for several hundred miles and a few stops along the way. He was definitely burning close to 7 gph with generator (honestly. I think it was a bit more).

On a boat that size, 5.5 gph at 8.5 kts including generator is extremely impressive. I would expect at least 8 gph and would be surprised if it was 9-10 with generator

Peter
 
I’m slightly over propped but I’ve been amazed with the fuel burn myself. I don’t have a flow scan to be super accurate but 21 hours on the main tank and 107 gals to fill it back up to the pretty much the same spot dipping the stick. It should be within a pretty decent margin of error.
 
In addition to the Selene 55 other members spoke of, I have been looking at the Seahorse 52s, too. One has circumnavigated (over three years, from memory). Some have two engines; some a single. Some are stabilised (the one I was looking at had a 'Sea Gyro' fitted; this is a Colin Ayres design and fitted non-vacuum gyro). Internal fitout is very nice.

boatsalestas.com.au

Seahorse 52 Pilothouse "Raucous" | Power boats | Boat Sales Tasmania

boatsalestas.com.au
 
Kit_L said:
In addition to the Selene 55 other members spoke of, I have been looking at the Seahorse 52s, too. One has circumnavigated (over three years, from memory). Some have two engines; some a single. Some are stabilised (the one I was looking at had a 'Sea Gyro' fitted; this is a Colin Ayres design and fitted non-vacuum gyro). Internal fitout is very nice
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I've only seen these as twins and they've never struck me as a passage maker. Remind me of the Independence/Cherubini.

Wonder how it circumnavigated with 800 gals diesel?

Peter
 
If I can find the article, I'll upload it here, but bladders would be my guess.

Quite an inspiring story! I have information on the Sea Gyro, too, if anyones interested.
 

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Kit_L said:
If I can find the article, I'll upload it here, but bladders would be my guess.

Quite an inspiring story! I have information on the Sea Gyro, too, if anyones interested.
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Would have to be bladders. But a lot of capacity. 800 gals will not get you halfway across the longest leg of a circumnavigation - Hawaii to Mexico or US. You'd need close to 1000 gals. Clearly Seaton, a very capable Naval Architect, didn't design the boat for journeys such as this. That said, I'd have no probably taking it from Alaska to Maine. If I had a hankering to go to The Med and owned that boat, I'd figure it out.

Nice boat. Coastal passage maker, not blue water in my opinion. Not unlike many travelers on lists like TF.

Peter
 
Very interesting/enlightening discussion. We've been sailing, since 1998 (Asia, the Medd, and the E Caribb. But we're not getting any younger, sailing can be work (!), and we've been talking more and more about making a change. Interesting/enlightening discussion.
 
Agree with Peter (again….oh well….) Do think a Al or other ultralight LDL boat could get by with 800 g but not a full displacement or SD boat.
The Artnautica LRC58-02 “Broadsword ” went transpacific without issues and no bladders.
— LOA: 17.6 m
— LWL: 17.4 m
— Beam: 4 m
— Draft: 0.95 m
— Displacement: 15 tonnes incl. payload
— Water: 1,100 litres
— Engine: Beta Marine 75-90 hp
— Fuel: 3,200 litres
— Fuel consumption: 0.80 litres per nm
— Cruising speed 7-9 knots
 
That LRC58 has interesting specs. I had 2 shipyards propose designs for fiberglass vessels of 71ft x 14ft beam, with 55 metric ton displacement.

Economical to build and power. Very limited interior. Similar to most sailboats.

High moorage fees of course so I would need to consider full time floating mooring or anchoring.
 
mvweebles said:
I've only seen these as twins and they've never struck me as a passage maker. Remind me of the Independence/Cherubini.

Wonder how it circumnavigated with 800 gals diesel?

Peter
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Twin engines seem to be rarer than singles in the Seahorses. The hull was derived
from the Seahorse 52 sailboat. As is common in sailboats, the engine(s) is/are
under the salon floor. Larger tankage would be nice but, again, originally a sailboat.
They don't have much room available for fin stabilizers so a gyro might be about it.
 
ddickson said:
That is a good point. I would not want to be crammed into a tiny cockpit. Honestly, a couple day or a full day crossing is probably all we would end up doing unless we went to Brazil. That is I think a 4-5 day passage.

I did see some 44+5's and they do look alright. Great point on the engine room size, would not want to lean over a running engine to do an inspection. I do see some that are 4'4", but have space around the engine. Do you think that would be enough? I'm 5'8.
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I am on the same "boat" - looking for 53+ trawler with an engine room where I can stand.
 
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