Help. Ford Lehman Dies at worst of times

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
BuoyOBuoy

BuoyOBuoy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
65
Location
Canada
Vessel Name
Wooly Bully
Vessel Make
Albin 33
I am looking for the usual excellent advice I get on this site.
This is something way above my pay grade.
Setting the scene.
I am making my way out of Hamilton Harbour, under the lift bridge through the canal into Lake Ontario.
I am on my way back to Toronto
I replaced my my circulating water pump (bearing shot) and everything is fine for the first 7 miles.
About a mile from the end of the canal I start losing power a little at a time. After 3 minutes the engine the Lehman shuts itself down.
I get towed back to Macasa Bay Yacht Club. All kinds of advice there as there is in any club.
I try to turn over the engine and the starter shuts down after 2 seconds. It seems like it won't turn the engine over.
Some suggestions are; one cylinder is full of fuel, another is the starter is shot, another is the injectors need a good cleaning.
What say any of my trawler experts?
The only diesel mechanic worth his salt is away until after the Labor Day weekend. He can come next Wednesday !
Is there anything I can do to prepare in advance?
 
Shot bearing on circulating pump: I'm guessing the engine overheated. Can you confirm and if so, how long was it overheated?
 
Hard to say.... I would really have to hear the starter issue to guess whether or not it's starter, electrical or hydro locked piston.

One path would be to hold the engine shutdown lever on the injector pump to "shutdown" and try barring over the engine with a breaker bar and socket on the fore crankshaft nut.

Another might be to pull out the injectors and try turning it over with a towel over all the openings to keep any spray down.

Another is to unbolt the starter and try starting (starter will jump with all the torque so it must be secured) and this is no guarantee that the starter is 100%.
 
My first thought is clogged filter but with two issues occurring simultaneously I suspect there is a very serious issue.

You start by removing the injectors and seeing what happens when you turn the engine by hand. If it easily turns by hand and no fluid comes out of the injector holes then you test the starter to see what happens. If fluid comes out of the holes take note of what type of fluid and report back.
 
Fingers would point to the recent work you did. I would remove it and verify it's OK.
If you can, bar engine over by hand. If it resists, remove the glow plugs if it has them.
That's usually quicker and easier than pulling the injectors.
 
Last edited:
Mac2 said:
Shot bearing on circulating pump: I'm guessing the engine overheated. Can you confirm and if so, how long was it overheated?
Click to expand...
Agree. A stuck piston is my initial guess but I like to not jump to conclusions too quickly.
 
Mac2 said:
Shot bearing on circulating pump: I'm guessing the engine overheated. Can you confirm and if so, how long was it overheated?
Click to expand...
When we noticed steam coming out the exhaust, I immediately ran to check the temperature gauge and it had gone from 180 to 200 but no higher. As I scaled down the RPM the temp dropped back down to 180. My wife was steering at the time and not looking at the gauge.
As soon as I noticed the steam we lowered the RPMs. Everything seemed normal after I installed the water pump. On the way to bridge opening at the canal everything was operating at normal temps.
 
180 is not too hot in itself. Check fuel filters, all strainers. Did you open sea cock? Alternator belt good? Battery voltage good? You have many places to look. I have a 135, very interested in your story.
 
Does the engine have an electric fuel pump? I'm wondering if as part of replacing the cooling pump the alternator may have been improperly reinstalled and not charging. Then after being underway for a while, voltage drops, fuel pump slows/stops, engine becomes starved for fuel and dies, and you can't crank it for more than a second or two because the battery is low. You could check battery voltage.

Otherwise I'm with the crowd saying the next step is to bar over the engine to see if it is binding in any way. I seriously doubt it will be, but a good first check to determine the next step.
 
KnotYet said:
Fingers would point to the recent work you did. I would remove it and verify it's OK.
If you can, bar engine over by hand. If it resists, remove the glow plugs if it has them.
That's usually quicker and easier than pulling the injectors.
Click to expand...
No glow plugs that I am aware of.
 
All great advice. Many thanks.
I'm thinking I will wait until the mechanic can come on Wednesday,
A note on replacing the water pump. I didn't remove the alternator but simply let the bracket go and pushed the alternator back. After I got towed back and let things cool down the water was still very hot.
Isn't it odd that it started right up after I installed the water pump and then drove the 2 1/2 miles to Macasa Bay YC. Operation normal. Stayed over night then left early morning motoring 4 miles to catch the bridge opening. Idled 20 minutes waiting for opening then passed through and got out in the lake for a mile then engine slowly died.
After being towed back to the club tried to start the engine and would not turn over.
Will give all your suggestions to the mechanic. Also will follow up on this thread when diagnosis is complete.
 
BuoyOBuoy said:
Will give all your suggestions to the mechanic. Also will follow up on this thread when diagnosis is complete.
Click to expand...
I will not do that! let the mechanic do his diagnostic first otherwise it gets too confusing.
 
slowgoesit said:
Any resolution on the overheating issue?
Click to expand...
Overheating was resolved by replacing the water pump. A bearing was the culprit.
Still having an issue with engine stalling out at the worst of times. Have replaced all the filters and the lift pump. No air while bleeding the system. Got it started but would only run on idle. Increase the throttle and it stalls out. Had to get a second tow yesterday after running down the lake on idle for 3 1/2 hours, then stalling again.
Need more suggestions.
 
Have you by any chance pulled an injector and poked a borescope in there to see if the cylinder walls are scored? Overheating may have damaged the cylinder walls, or rings, and you may have low compression, so every time you try and get any power out of the boat, it stalls. Just a thought.
 
Where is the mechanic? We are all curious to know the outcome!
 
Nick F said:
Where is the mechanic? We are all curious to know the outcome!
Click to expand...
Not to worry, I surely will let you know as things proceed. It is hard to find a mechanic who isn't already really busy. The mechanic our club uses is busy until next week. In the meantime I am installing a Racor filter / water seperator. From a phone conversation he thinks there is an air leak between the tank and the lift pump or it might be water. Thus the reason for installing the Racor. Former owner had a polishing system installed instead of Racor but I have temporarily by-passed it. I'm learning as I go !!
 
BuoyOBuoy said:
I am looking for the usual excellent advice I get on this site.
This is something way above my pay grade.
Setting the scene.
I am making my way out of Hamilton Harbour, under the lift bridge through the canal into Lake Ontario.
I am on my way back to Toronto
I replaced my my circulating water pump (bearing shot) and everything is fine for the first 7 miles.
About a mile from the end of the canal I start losing power a little at a time. After 3 minutes the engine the Lehman shuts itself down.
I get towed back to Macasa Bay Yacht Club. All kinds of advice there as there is in any club.
I try to turn over the engine and the starter shuts down after 2 seconds. It seems like it won't turn the engine over.
Some suggestions are; one cylinder is full of fuel, another is the starter is shot, another is the injectors need a good cleaning.
What say any of my trawler experts?
The only diesel mechanic worth his salt is away until after the Labor Day weekend. He can come next Wednesday !
Is there anything I can do to prepare in advance?
Click to expand...
Call “American Diesel” you can chat with the owner and maker of the engine. Owner Brian: 804.435.3107
 
Last edited:
don't assume current problem related to water pump issue
I had twin Lehmans -leak at copper tubing fitting in supply fuel line took awhile to find I remember. can you connect supply line to clean bucket of diesel - go simple before pulling apart is only advice I really have- good luck. another easy is switch tanks. check vent hose on tank you are using.
 
It's the second law of boating... anytime your engine dies will always be the least opportune time.

Good luck with it! we chased an issue with one of our Perkins randomly quitting for over a year. turned out to be a minor air leak in a copper fuel line... minor enough that it wasn't a fuel leak, but was letting a tiny bit of air into the system.
 
Joining to see where this goes, and what the mechanic finds. Good luck.
 
I once spent over a month tracking down why my port Ford-Lehman 120 kept failing. It turned out to be a crimped tee handle o-ring on the Racor.

Long before this problem reared its ugly head, I had an electric "priming pump" installed mainly to assist in filling the Racors after filter changes. This pump could also be used to pressurize the fuel system to the injector pump inlet. Before I found the issue with the o-ring, I turned on this electric pump and cracked the bleed screw at the injector to eject the air that had been ingested after which I re-started the engine which ran normally with the electric pump running until I reached my destination.
 
I too have FL 120s and they both were set up with electric fuel pumps and one racor each on a fuel management board with four integrated floscan units (one each engine intake, one each on return). The previous owner used fuel pressure boost pumps #1 port and #2 starboard and each engine had one Racor 500 series.
Once I had my 650 gallons in three integrated FG tanks opened, cleaned and fuel polished to 0.5 microns and added vacuum gauges to each Racor I decided to try to run both on one Racor and one fuel boost pump, leaving the other as a redundant backup in case either a filter got clogged or showed vacuum build up or if pump failed.
They have been running that way for 3 years now with well over 1,000 nm and I only need to change Racors (one of them) every season when I do other filters and oil changes, etc. I have never tried running these without at least one boost pump running. I ass-u-me'd that was common for FL or at least with my tank location(s) and added burden of flowing through so many Floscan monitors.
One time I ran one tank too low and sucked air into system and had to learn how to blead the air with a clean 5 gallon jerry can of diesel and a few tricks I learned here on TF. That solved my only (knock on wood) failure to run issue.
I hope yours ends up being something as simple as air and the cause of air in the system is easily located and remedied. I too will follow the thread to see what solution(s) you discover.
 
This may not relate. You commented idled for hours before adding throttle.
In previous boat had two lehman 120. One would start and idle at 700. When it got hot the idle rpm would drop and it wanted to stall when adding throttle. I increased the idle stop screw and that stopped. The idle remained at 700 after adjustment. so heat may reduce rpm setting.
The similarity is when the rpm dropped to about 550 and I accelerated too fast it wanted to stall.
 
From what I saw scrolling down you really should call Brian at American Diesel (804.435.3107).

Talking with him, his father developed the Ford Lehman engine, he is the only real expert on this engine.

Hit & miss anyplace else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJM
I ditto not focusing on the water pump. It most likely is a Red Herring. I don't know how many times I have shut boat down running fine and then the next day like magic it won't run. It most likely is a failure like that, totally unrelated to the water pump. Isn't boating fun!!!!
 
BuoyOBuoy said:
Not to worry, I surely will let you know as things proceed. It is hard to find a mechanic who isn't already really busy. The mechanic our club uses is busy until next week. In the meantime I am installing a Racor filter / water seperator. From a phone conversation he thinks there is an air leak between the tank and the lift pump or it might be water. Thus the reason for installing the Racor. Former owner had a polishing system installed instead of Racor but I have temporarily by-passed it. I'm learning as I go !!
Click to expand...

Too bad you weren't near me, I'd love to crawl around your engine just for fun.

I've gone through a steep learning curve on my Ford lehman, and have made much improvements in the last 3 years. My first reaction about your engine gradually losing power and quitting, is air in the lines. I've had to deal with this for a couple of occurrences until I realized that my fuel pump was performing a push and a pull on the fuel lines between the primary and secondary filter. After a bit of thought, it occurred to me that when it was sucking from the primary filter, if there was any leak, air would also be sucked in addition to the fuel. I replumbed the fuel system so it was a push system only. That means the fuel pump comes first, then pushes fuel into the primary filter, secondary filter, and then into the injector pump. As soon as I fired up the engine after rerouting the fuel lines, the first thing I noticed was the primary filter was leaking a bit of fuel from the top cap. Now if you think about it, when it was in the vacuum mode, that same top cap leaking fuel out was sucking air in in the old configuration. Ever since I've replumbed the fuel system and fixed that leak, I've never had the engine shut down since.

As for the engine won't crank, I'll agree with what others have said here. Manually tie-back the kill lever closed, and then hand crank the engine from the flywheel. You must tie-back the kill lever closed, or the engine might start when cranking the flywheel. Even if you are cranking really slowly, there might be enough compression to fire the engine.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Lehman seized
Replies
7
Views
2K
Nepidae
Nepidae
ahoy
Help Identifying My Borg Warner Gearbox/Transmission – Missing Info Plate
Replies
2
Views
245
rslifkin
R
J
Lehman 120 Damper Plate Seized Engine
Replies
7
Views
779
psneeld
psneeld
Sanford Gentry
Jabsco Raw Water Pump Exploded View on my 1978 6D380 Ford Lehman
Replies
0
Views
945
Sanford Gentry
Sanford Gentry
bill209
Ford Lehman high rpm’s at idle
Replies
21
Views
3K
Comodave
Comodave

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom