Boater’s evolution

Just spent this morning with my bride on a Lifeproof boats 31’ cabin. Got me thinking about the evolution of many here. Ith some variation folks seem to go through an evolution of two foot-itis going from small craft to a significant cruiser vessel either in power or sail or a mix. Then after awhile their horizons shrink and the reverse that evolution. Some don’t have as high a high or as low a low either due to available time or money or land based responsibilities being unable to full time cruise or be too far from their dirt dwelling. But even there there seems to be that bell shaped curve.
We have just entered what’s probably our last phase of this. The NT is a great boat. Easy to live on, long legs, and wide spectrum of operating speeds. But it has a constant list of maintenance chores and as more and more people boat the freedom of just picking a direction has disappeared. In the past one could say”let’s go south this weekend (or season). Now it takes planning and flexibility as anchorages maybe full or marinas expansive and even maybe full as well. Scheduling services was done with one phone call and in a reasonable latency are gone. Boat ownership has become more stressful. In recent years finding a berth is a major chore as in New England there’s often waiting lists of several years for a slip or even a mooring. There’s no availability in my town for so long they aren’t even adding to their waiting lists. Even rack storage is a problem.
Still a man who has gone to sea is ruined for land. So the admiral has said” we need a day boat.” 5 year ago she said no more passages and international long term cruising” and she was right. Been there done that got the tshirt. Now she said you need a boat you can single and put as much effort and time into as you do with a car.
So we will over the next year or two sell the NT and get something smaller. Our goal is to do something entirely different. A boat and usage type we’ve never experienced. For decades now law enforcement, military and SAR have been using small jet or outboard powered aluminum boats with a ring of inflatable tubes or closed cell foam. Folks in the Pacific Northwest have been using variants to fish, recreate and over night. Typical range is ~400nm and most can go 45-50mph with cruising speeds in the mid to high 30s. They can be trailered or with the smaller ones racked.
Although economically it’s a lateral move commitment to keeping the thing running is a fraction of what’s involved running a recreational trawler.
I started this thread to hear about other peoples journeys through their evolution. Also other’s thoughts about boats like the Lifeproof 31’coupe or cabin.

I had never boated and got the idea to cruise. Decided to go the sailboat route

- took ASA lessons on a C&C 36 and got bareboat certified
- joined a club and solo sailed on Cal-33s on weekend for 3 months
- next Spring got a 1988 Cal-39 and sailed it for 2 years
- moved up to a 2001 Hunter 410 and sailed it while working next 5 years
- retired, sold everything and moved onto boat and cruised 7.5 years
- had at sea collision, got out of boating and now type in forums

Wow. Would you share details of the collision ?

Hippocampus said:

Wow. Would you share details of the collision ?

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He has.

No 2 foot-itis. 16 foot ski boat to 36 foot trawler to 65 foot trawler. Biggest difference for me was being a livaboard on the 65 (I dont have a land residence), so I don’t have any other properties to maintain. If I did, it would be to overwhelming for me. I will live on a boat as long as physically possible. My wife is completely on the same page as me (which is critical for this lifestyle). I have a 16 foot Stabicraft as a dinghy. I set it up for fishing and crabbing. It is a blast and is a completely different experience than the big boat. It’s nice to jump in and get somewhere in a reasonable time frame. Even though you are “downsizing” I don’t think you are compromising, just having a new experience. You routinely see things on the water that puts life in perspective. Good luck in your new search.

Good topic Hippocampus. Thanks for posting.

I speak of my good friend with a 52-foot Power Cat frequently. I've known him for 30-years. We used to sail on SF Bay (he used to single-hand his Brewer 46 PH sloop), and he was my go-to crew for deliveries which is what whet his appetite for power.

10-years ago he got divorced and ended up buying his Power Cat in Florida. Finding a place to berth it proved vexing enough that he bought a house so he could keep it in his backyard. He also has a Parker 21 center console in his backyard that gets used A LOT as a lunch wagon to the various waterside eateries in our neck of Florida. The Power Cat? Not so much. He's thought about downsizing to a 38-foot go-fast boat with a nice interior, open cockpit, and giant outboards. He figures he can be in Key West in a half day (200 nms away).

Tough to tell from your post whether the thrill is gone in general, or boating has changed enough that the juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore. Maybe a change of scenary is in order. I gotta tell you that having a boat in your backyard (or better described as a house/condo next to your boat) is pretty dang convenient. Don't even have to go to the fuel dock - diesel tanker truck comes to you.

Before I decided to refit Weebles, I looked at smaller boats. Albin made "Tournement Express" sport fishers in the 30-34 foot range that looked like they'd be great to hang with, maybe head to a waterside hotel/marina and not even stay on the boat.

Best success in whatever you decide. Was a lot of fun being in the bleachers during the search that led to your Nordic Tug. I'll get the popcorn ready for 2.0.

Peter

My progression was simple. Type of boat to fulfill my point of life desires and locations..... Fish, sail, fish, cruise, fish....spanning 55 years
Family sportfish (growing up)
Sail - Laser (college)
19' Sail
30' Sail (1st liveaboard)
23' Sail
CC Fish (1st divorce)
37 Sportfish/cruise (2nd liveaboard/2nd divorce)
40' Trawler (3rd liveaboard and fishing in great cruising spots) (got too tired of maintaining tired old boat)
19" Skiff (coastal fish/see the interior of the country & visit kids via RV)

Hippocampus said:

Just spent this morning with my bride on a Lifeproof boats 31’ cabin. Got me thinking about the evolution of many here.
I started this thread to hear about other peoples journeys through their evolution.

Click to expand...

BTW even though I am currently crashed of of boating I still have a bug to do more of it. Just that it has changed as I know my wife would never go along with the "dream" type stuff again. But at 64 I am just way too young to be in my "remember back when" years. For me an over night capable sailboat plus a midsize trawler type to do a few months at a time would be great. But the money part of the storage is the issue. Still working through it and awaiting my wife's stress to fade to see what is possible.

When the time arrives, my current boat is the last one. Maybe a cruise, most likely road trips, or plane to somewhere. Two foot itis from 16 to 45, some were 4-6 foot itis. Sail & power, even single engine. Crewed on sail, chartered sail, 9 years with SAR volunteer.
My first boat was an abandoned row boat at age 8/9.

The lifeproofs have around 400nm range at 30kts and can go around 50. It’s the same hull and pretty much the same house as military,SAR and police use. Due to strakes and the closed cell foam collar further stabilization isn’t necessary. The one I’m looking at isn’t a cruiser but can be weekended as it has a techma head and hot water. Back to boat camping on occasion but mostly will be used to fish or quick point A to B.
Have been fly fishing for awhile but want to get back to going after pelagic fish as well. This relatively new form of recreational boat is an ideal platform for getting out to the canyons or coastal striper/black bass. Will do it in unpainted Al with twin 300-350 Suzukis or mercs. Have found a slip 1/2h from home making split days (fishing mornings/other stuff evenings) feasible. Some way I’ll be on the water until they throw dirt in my face. At present this seems a good option.
Being talking with LC8 which is the local Plymouth dealer. Looking at the 31 coupe. Here’s the website. Thoughts?

Those are well made boats. From the founder of Safe Boats, which I’ve been on. A friend bought one too, but they are pricey. I had a factory performance demo ride on the safe boat and it was insane how well it handled and the extreme, maneuvers that could be done with it.

I wonder whether the "progression" has changed in recent years. Around here, all the old cruisers, power and sail, are aging out. The ones coming in to fill their former slips have no interest in overnighting, let alone distance cruising. It's exclusively day boats, either day fishing boats or show boats which rarely leave the dock. And the value of these new arrivals is well outside the reach of ordinary middle-class families.

Don't think the Life Proof linked model is particularly "fisherman" friendly, as most good fishing boats sacrifice cruising/weekending amenities for fishability. Had a few friends that bought more cruising style boats even just for dock living, keeping their walk arounds/CC's in a slip next to them as they just weren't comfy enough as they got older.

Hippocampus said:

I started this thread to hear about other peoples journeys through their evolution. Also other’s thoughts about boats like the Lifeproof 31’coupe or cabin.

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Unfortunately, the inconvenient realities of aging, health issues, and life have me in a similar situation as you. The unpleasant reality is that my long distance cruising days are now behind me (coming at a rather ironic and unfortunate time, just as my dream Helmsman 38 Sedan was delivered).

But as a Buddhist teaching offers, "No matter how much I may wish things were otherwise, things are as they are."

I'd still like to have boating in some form for my remaining time. Given the realities of health and physical status, that's just not going to be a 38 ft 30,000 lb trawler. I've fantasized if something smaller, easier to handle, that doesn't require getting on my hands and knees to crawl into an engine room, might be possible. Helping a friend (of similar age and health status) recently buy a Rosborough 246 drove home the message that it was the kind of boat I should be thinking about, not something with quadruple the displacement.

I don't know what if any boating future I might have (sanity says there should be none, but what about boats is sane?). I've mused that if I'm able to do any kind of boating in the future, my own requirements would be -

- Smaller, something an aging body can realistically and safely single-hand

- Safety is foremost. Meaning, easy access, full walk-around decks. Not easy to find in a smaller boat.

- Outboard or stern drive for easy engine access. Thanks to osteoarthritis and a spinal nerve entrapment, I'm not going to be getting on my hands and knees to access machinery spaces any more.

- Good seakeeping abilities. At least in New England, sea states can very quickly, and unpredictably, go from flat calm to 4-6 ft nasty washing machine whitecaps.

- Faster speed than a trawler. Since overnight trips would be rare if at all, being able to reach interesting destinations (by the Admiral's standards) in a round trip of a day is essential (unless I want to go boating alone, which would not be the smartest thing to do).

There are various aluminum boats from PNW builders such as North River generally intended for fishing. Those have an attraction, but the lack of safe, full, easily accessible walk-around decks would rule them out for me personally.


I personally have an aversion to anything inflatable, because harsh contact with something sharp can make it deflatable. I've fantasized about some of the Scandinavian designs from Sargo, Targa, and Nord Star, or the French Timmonier, which seem to embody all of my fantasy requirements -





This type of boat is very rare in the U.S., with most buyers here seemingly preferring to maximize interior cabin space at the expense of deck access. The prices of these boats are also astonishingly high for their size. But I suppose as is usually the case in life, you get what you pay for.

Hippocampus, have you given some thought to keeping the NT, but changing your cruising style? Maybe find some areas where you enjoy the cruising more, have less crowds, etc. And then just cruise part time. Instead of running the boat south for winter, just store it for the off-season (which also gives time for work to be done on the boat). You have a home base to go back to, so you have more flexibility in being able to just leave the boat somewhere and go home for a while, then go back to the boat for whatever period of time you can handle and enjoy.

There are definitely still areas (such as much of the Great Lakes) where affordable slips are easy to come by, there's more un-crowded cruising, etc. Services are still an issue at times, but that varies between specific locations and also gets easier if you're regularly getting things done in the same place by the same people.

Even beyond that, I've seen a few people move to boats like your NT as they age, even if they're rarely going out for more than a few hours at a time. I think there's a certain appeal to a boat that's easy to move around, efficient, and comfortable even if you're not using anywhere near its full capability.

CaptTom said:

I wonder whether the "progression" has changed in recent years. Around here, all the old cruisers, power and sail, are aging out. The ones coming in to fill their former slips have no interest in overnighting, let alone distance cruising. It's exclusively day boats, either day fishing boats or show boats which rarely leave the dock. And the value of these new arrivals is well outside the reach of ordinary middle-class families.

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I think it depends on the area to some extent. I see some of the same here, but cheap sailboats and affordable dockage are easier to come by here than in many places, so at least some of the younger crowd is going down that path. Those of us based locally that cruise more than an occasional weekend at a different marina are a small portion, but I can't say it's all that much better with the older crowd, plenty of them only ever go out for a day sail and nothing more. The younger crowd is definitely more likely to own powerboats though.

It's interesting to read other's journey and how they got to where they are today. Personally, I had a 32' Bayliner express cruiser and a 17" Donzi runabout back in the day. Mainly used as a weekender, although sometimes I'd pack my work into a bag and go work from the boat. I loved it. Somehow life got in the way and I got out of boating. That was a while back. Today, with retirement just around the corner, I'm ready to get back on the water. My wife and I want a boat we can live on part time, cruise the ICW, maybe winter in the Bahamas, so we are on the hunt. I want to do those things while we are still young enough to be able to.

CaptTom said:

It's exclusively day boats, either day fishing boats or show boats which rarely leave the dock. And the value of these new arrivals is well outside the reach of ordinary middle-class families.

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Most boats rarely, if ever, go anywhere near as I have been able to tell. Don't under estimate the cost of those day boats. Have you looked up the price of a new 30' day boat with 900HP of outboards?

Depending on one's interpretation of a day boat might be.... plenty of new boats under $100,000 (less than 300hp) boats out there. Used boats with the same parameters probably grow that at least 10X.

My evolution in boat ownership was to make money with the first 5 boats.

22' center console (4 pack scuba charters)
25' center console, same as above.
16' aluminum skiff, springs trips in FL
42' steel hull 6 pack scuba charters
35' Downeaster same as above

Then I bought the 45' trawler and swapped dinghies twice. After selling the trawler and everything but the 10' Trinka (Epropulsion, row, and sail), I'm down to the very slow lane. The Trinka lives on a trailer and gets splashed where most can't power boat. I prefer to get off the beaten path where others can't make wakes. Guess I'm destined to watch nature up close and maybe try fishing.

Went back and forth on a 17' Mako (made around the turn of the century) with a 115 Suzuki and a trailer. Decided going nowhere fast for the sake of going fast was was a recipe for a dust magnet after the novelty wore off.

Ted

I reminded myself that chartering can replace ownership when boating is no longer a full time endeavor.

Greetings,
Our story isn't much different that what some have posted already:

11' fishing boat dad built on or about mid 50's (kept almost 30 years)
16' cold molded runabout I swapped for a Honda 50 mini-trail (kept 5 years)
34' Chris Craft (1950) (kept 13 years)
34' Marine trader Trawler (kept 12 years)
16' bow rider concurrent with MT ownership (MT in Canada. Bow rider in FL) (kept 6 years)
46' Cheoy Lee LRC (kept 15+ years)
23' Penn Yan sport fish (bought 6 years ago and still have in Canada)
27' Glacier Bay catamaran. (bought 2 years ago and still have in FL.)
Made the most sense to have a boat to fit the type of use. Many, many...MANY enjoyable days and months thus far. I figure I've been "boating" going on 65+ years. Yep. Slowing down (work-wise) but speeding up (boat-wise). Perhaps our cat is the andropause equivalent to that little red sports car.



I haven't really kept track of $$ spent nor do I much care. How can you put a price on running Biscayne Bay @ 30 knots in 3' to 4' chop? I DO know I'm noticing the cost of fuel more..but not much more.

Excellent responses.
For me
Sick of grp.
Like unpainted Al
Won’t own a boat with exterior wood.
Not much for socializing or hanging out on a docked boat
Want something I can single easily and isn’t hard to take out even for 1/2 a day.
Want something safe
The foamed tubed boats meet those criteria.
Want to get where the fish are and be able to fish all the species in my area. Agree going fast just to go fast gets old. But being to fish false abicore off MV then striper at Cleveland ledge, then striper along Plymouth and Marshfield , then do the canyons for pelagic holds interest. Runs to P’town and other local towns for a late lunch and walk around still is fun. As is visiting friends on the Cape and in RI as a day trip. Both those social runs and the fishing runs are reasonable distances away. Or if you’re wanting to catch a tide the fish won’t wait so getting there fast is a bonus.
Have spent a lot of time fishing off outboard boats. But mostly troll or cast. Don’t like bottom fishing. Have a wife and fish with one or two friends or by myself. Don’t need a CC or walk around. The ergonomics on the LF or others of that ilk give easy access to the midship cleats and the bow/stern cleats are a few steps away. Best to fish off a sportfish as no outboards but don’t want that size or complexity. Trading the issues with a trawler for the same issues with a sportfish.
Nick posted some wonderful boats but the foamed tubed boats make better sense to me.
R have had several center consoles in the past. Takes us an hour to get to the NT. Unloading stuff, putting it away and going through my check list is another 1/2h-3/4 of an hour. So it isn’t daysailed. It’s used for several weeks at a time or at least 3-4 days. The CCs were 15-30m away and off the dock in 15m. Often used for a day or part of a day. When I was working fished before and after work or if off until I had to take a kid to a sport event.
My NT is gorgeous and oh so liveable but times change and I’m not going to live on a boat like before.
Yes the current boat buyer seems to be a different breed. Astute observation. Folks here are outliers in many ways.

Sick of GRP? What do you like about unpainted AL?

Among others-wax/compunding, heavy, needs cleaning up after fish blood or stains beyond a hosing down. Things need bedding and backing
Al oxidizes then left alone. Things are welded then left alone. Doesn’t stress crack. Tannins don’t stain it.
LFs can come with synthetic teak but won’t even do that except inside. Done chasing a boat. No issues with maintenance but unnecessary cosmetic maintenance has gotten old. Will put up with marelon thru hulls. But beyond that want a boat to look good with less effort. There’s enough foam inside that noise is minimal and current deck coverings aren’t hot on the feet. I wear something on my feet while fishing anyway so don’t see prior complaints about Al as amounting to much. This is going to be kept in temperate climes. It’s built to avoid electrolysis so anodes aren’t more of an issue than with grp. It’s commercial grade construction with a surround of closed cell foam with an excellent memory of so I’m not worried about it being delicate like grp. No gelcoat for me. I have always babied my boats. Sold them looking as good or better than when I bought them. Just want less effort doing that.
Remained surprised by us North Americans. Over the years have come convinced Al is less work and Fe the same as grp.

Al hulls can be destroyed in days by stray current corrosion, monitor and be careful.

I've already decided on my next boat after the whale to the left is too big for me to handle.

I'm going back to the beginning. A small light aluminum or glass outboard with a bimini, a steering wheel (no tiller, not that far back) and electric start. Kept in a slip (no trailers needed) and just motor up the river, nose it into the tullies and fish -

Seems like the work to play ratio is at least part of the consideration to downsize. And as we age the work gets harder even if the chore list remains a constant.

For some, a middle ground may exist. Become more of a checkbook boater. Pay someone to do a serious detailing job annually, and more of the mechanical stuff. That runs against the grain with folks here, but hey, it might keep you on the water.

That doesn’t turn a trawler into a fast fishing boat if the bigger issue is a change in goals and interests.

Started with a 13' Boston Whaler with a 50 in it. (fun)
next was a Greenwich 24 (sail)
19' Lightning (sail)
Cape Dory Typhoon (sail)
J 24 Sail / Racing
Marshall Sanderling Catboat (sail)
17' Boston Whaler Dauntless w/115
21' Robalo 2140 w/ 225
and now I have a Sundowner 32 which I did the loop on solo in 2022 - 2023. My wife like this boat but she is not into more than one night away. I got to take off for a year once. My second Loop and distance cruising dreams are on hold for now.

Our story;

1, open sailboat, Fireball, had 2 years.

2, (speedboat) 4 meters with 4 hp Evinrude, later 18 hp Mercury, later 50 hp Mercury.

3, polyester cruiser, 6 meters, it had sunk (insurance fraud case) and had been underwater for 2 years, the boat completely renovated and sailed for 7 years, 2x 25 hp Mercury.

4, Barkas 1100, the boat we are still sailing with and hope to sail until the end.Built in 3 years, articulated for 30 years.We had foresight, a boat suitable for getting older and no longer being able to walk.A boat with which you can go out to sea with peace of mind, but also sail the inland waterways of Europe.If we turn our backs on the sea, hope not for the first 15 years, we will leave the mast at home and explore the approximately 5000 km inland waterways of the Netherlands, sailing ditch.With a vertical clearance of 2.35 and a draught of 1 meter, you can go almost anywhere.

Greeting;

Pascal.

Yup PS this is an issue. Stray current corrosion is much more aggressive than galvanic and anodes are typically unable to prevent it. But it requires a stray current. In the past this was more common as shore power units and wiring were more likely to be culprits. Still need to be aware of “hot” boats leaking current into the water nearby. Other source such as rail nearby, machinery or welding units are also less likely sources then in the past. Still the current has to get in. Appropriate barriers applied and carefully maintained are effective barriers. But the builder needs to be cognizant of ways of entry and in design and execution avoid them. Simple things like having no cooling systems providing a path (keep your outboards up when in a slip) and designing aerated fish boats correctly help. It’s in design and execution that makes the difference. Particularly how the electrical system is done. 12v systems and wiring remain culprits. If there’s no way for the current to get in the metal there’s no corrosion. Yes it’s great there’s less stray current in marinas then there was in the past but that’s no guarantee there won’t be.
Worthwhile to use your fluke even for grp boats and have a good focused conversation with the marina about their shore power system. stray current is an equal opportunity employer effecting both metal, glass and wood boats. Will eat props, shafts, sail drives I/Os and thru hulls on non metallic boats as well.