Boater’s evolution

Hippocampus said:

Excellent responses.
For me
Sick of grp.
Like unpainted Al
Won’t own a boat with exterior wood.
Not much for socializing or hanging out on a docked boat
Want something I can single easily and isn’t hard to take out even for 1/2 a day.
Want something safe
The foamed tubed boats meet those criteria.
Want to get where the fish are and be able to fish all the species in my area. Agree going fast just to go fast gets old. But being to fish false abicore off MV then striper at Cleveland ledge, then striper along Plymouth and Marshfield , then do the canyons for pelagic holds interest. Runs to P’town and other local towns for a late lunch and walk around still is fun. As is visiting friends on the Cape and in RI as a day trip. Both those social runs and the fishing runs are reasonable distances away. Or if you’re wanting to catch a tide the fish won’t wait so getting there fast is a bonus.
Have spent a lot of time fishing off outboard boats. But mostly troll or cast. Don’t like bottom fishing. Have a wife and fish with one or two friends or by myself. Don’t need a CC or walk around. The ergonomics on the LF or others of that ilk give easy access to the midship cleats and the bow/stern cleats are a few steps away. Best to fish off a sportfish as no outboards but don’t want that size or complexity. Trading the issues with a trawler for the same issues with a sportfish.
Nick posted some wonderful boats but the foamed tubed boats make better sense to me.
R have had several center consoles in the past. Takes us an hour to get to the NT. Unloading stuff, putting it away and going through my check list is another 1/2h-3/4 of an hour. So it isn’t daysailed. It’s used for several weeks at a time or at least 3-4 days. The CCs were 15-30m away and off the dock in 15m. Often used for a day or part of a day. When I was working fished before and after work or if off until I had to take a kid to a sport event.
My NT is gorgeous and oh so liveable but times change and I’m not going to live on a boat like before.
Yes the current boat buyer seems to be a different breed. Astute observation. Folks here are outliers in many ways.

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I'm with you on most of your wants as well. I too would much prefer aluminum over fiberglass. New GRP is OK, except for the PITA need for regular waxing to preserve the gelcoat for as long as possible. Older GRP boats, particularly those built with balsa core, can often become expensive nightmares if there's moisture penetration into the core, usually very costly to properly remediate.

I too agree that AL would be less maintenance than GRP. I also like the ductility of AL, which has far more elasticity and plasticity than GRP. Hull material that will bend instead of break in the event of striking something (like the railroad ties that seem to mysteriously appear all too often) is very appealing.

Yes, AL is more expensive to build with than GRP, but it's still been frustrating to me that so few boats are built with it (other than a few PNW fishing boats). Coastal Craft was always on my dream list, but impossible to find on the east coast and expensive.

I didn't realize the LifeProof rings were foam filled, I assumed they were inflatable. Might even obviate the need for fenders? The easy forward deck access would make line handling much safer. I could live with the boat except for the lack of a separate head compartment (which would be a very hard no from the Admiral), and what I suspect is the cost. I saw there's a used LifeProof 35 on yachtworld for an eye-popping $860,000?!?! Does that mean a new one is over 7 figures?! That's way out of my budget.

I seem to recall someone posting a couple of years ago about a new AL trawler being built for them, something in the mid-30-ish ft size range?

Yup, as I suspected, impossibly expensive (for my bank account). The LP 35 has a base price of $825,000. With options and electronics, easy to go over $1 million. Not even remotely for me.

I don't think I've ever suffered from 2-foot-itis. I have bounced around a lot. Every boat was intended to fill a certain desire, some of them short-lived, others permanent. I thought about listing my boats, but it would take too much time and effort. And, like innocently walking the docks, I can fall in love all over again.

The list goes from a 9' whitewater kayak to 43' tri-cabin trawler. The odd thing is, I probably spent more overnights with the kayak than the trawler. I, my wife, and a few other crazies did self-supported river trips in Nevada, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Yukon, and Minnesota (Boundary Waters). Some were "first decents" and, similar to Captain Vancouver charting a newfound shoreline, our river diaries are now parts of whitewater guide books. Yes, we were living out of 9' boats for a week. People who never learned how to camp complain that cruising in a small boat is like camping, as if camping is uncomfortable.

What we found was that smaller boats allow for more boating. Whitewater kayaks, sea kayaks, double sea kayaks, canoes, day sailors, cruising sailboats, trawlers, sedan cruisers, dinghies. We have bounced around a bit concerning LOA, but in keeping with the concept that a boat is a vehicle to get to a remote destination (or to shore in a remote location), 43' was bigger than necessary. We went smaller, then even smaller. Our present boat is basically a GB 32 (a little smaller and a little better). Easily soloed, single engine, decadent space for two. Definitely one of the slowest boats that I've owned, but we are now both retired. And at 1.2 gph, we do see more otters, whales, etc. Just a fact of life for us. If I needed to get to the next marina before they gave away our reservation, I would likely have a faster boat. But that would completely change why we boat.

Despite buying our "new cruiser," I kept our old cruiser. It's a 16' C-Dory cruiser. It actually sat in the garage unused this entire year. At first, the wife made comments about when was I going to sell it. Not anymore. This year when returning from 2 months in northern B.C., she started talking about doing a different type of cruising next year, going back to the CD 16. We've cruised all over in it, from Lake Powell to Yellowstone to every nook and cranny on the west side of Vancouver Island. But here was her new concept of "cruising" for old geezers in a CD 16.

First, the C-Dory is trailerable. B.C. Ferries offers a boat/trailer service which they call "hostelling." You take your boat to the B.C. Ferry terminal (say at Port Hardy) and park your tow vehicle. B.C.F. then uses their tractor to load just your boat/trailer and unload it at your destination. At the destination, you get a local (Shearwater marina can also do this) to launch and store your trailer. Instead of towing your boat from Seattle to Prince Rupert (4-5 days, +1K miles, and $3K? in fuel and lodging?) you spend that money for tickets and 2 nights on a ferryboat ride through the inside passage.

But wait, the decadence is just beginning. Although you (well, at least my wife and I) can overnight easily on the C-Dory, my wife has done some research on the availability of remote "bed and breakfast" type businesses. There are lots of them. Everything from staying onboard and just getting meals (and laundry) to full blown spa treatment every evening. When we visited some of the fishing lodges on the west coast of Vancouver Island, we learned that although they try to fully book, they often have free days during a change of clients and are perfectly willing to accommodate "boat-ins." We once dropped in on a fishing lodge that had freezing facilities. They had a processing charge that was reasonable so we decided to fish a bunch and returned from that 10-day cruise with #140 of frozen salmon. We did way more sightseeing than fishing, including some hikes.

The point is that this type of cruising doesn't require a 65' boat. Or even a dinghy (the CD16 has an 8" draft). No need for a freezer, shower, TV, etc. on board. And even a 65' boat is unlikely to have a hot tub. Not so with staying at lodges. She is now glad that we still have the CD 16 for planning next summer's cruising. Her question now is why are we paying $400 a month moorage for too big of a boat when we have the perfect size cruiser sitting in the garage? That money could be spent on spa treatments.

The size boat you need depends on many things.

The 31 coupe dressed out the way I want it is 460. The commercial version (no plastic teek etc) about the same. But has fully Al enclosure. The techma head is under a berth. With door closed full privacy for the bride

Hippocampus said:

The 31 coupe dressed out the way I want it is 460. The commercial version (no plastic teek etc) about the same. But has fully Al enclosure. The techma head is under a berth. With door closed full privacy for the bride

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That’s less than the LP 35, but still a LOT of cheese for a 31 with VERY rudimentary accommodations.

The head under a bunk would be an extremely hard no from the Admiral. Given the number of times I use it during a night (neither of us would get any sleep, but at least it would be a short walk from the berth), it would absolutely extinguish whatever tiny little microscopic specs of romance might be left in our marriage, her seeing those sights (and experiencing the sounds and smells) all night long .

Greetings,
Mr. N. Hahahaha. Head under the berth. Exactly the reason we ended up buying our specific model of World Cat/Glacier Bay catamaran. We DID pay a premium price (used) as a cat' with a cabin in that size range WITHOUT the "throne" either under or immediately beside the bed is a VERY rare beast.
I think a significant part of one's evolution is being able to appreciate your personal likes and dislikes when shopping to replace or downsize.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. N. Hahahaha. Head under the berth. Exactly the reason we ended up buying our specific model of World Cat/Glacier Bay catamaran. We DID pay a premium price (used) as a cat' with a cabin in that size range WITHOUT the "throne" either under or immediately beside the bed is a VERY rare beast.
I think a significant part of one's evolution is being able to appreciate your personal likes and dislikes when shopping to replace or downsize.

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A head under a bunk, when I was in college I owned an early 1960s 17 ft Chris Craft cabin cruiser, one of their kit boats, that had a head under the V-bunks. It was fine for me then in my late teens. But a non-starter with the realities of biology and personal health half a century later.

If the LP 31 was half the price I could see it as a strictly day boat, with a head for emergency use (that would get very frequent and regular use in my case). But for nearly $half a million$, for my money I'd like something that could more reasonably accommodate an (aging) couple for an occasional overnight without straining the bonds of marriage.

Maybe something like this...

I guess I am probably still on my way up in size, but I hope to keep my current boat for quite awhile. I grew up sailing a lot, my family had a 25’ sailboat on a lake that was a fine weekender. My mother’s family was from Bermuda, where we regularly sailed with family and friends over the summers.

There was quite a gap in my adult life, when I did little more than an hour at a time on a Sunfish. Then, we bought a house that came with a slip. Our location, up the Napa River, is not very conducive to sailing due to the prevailing southerly wind and the narrow channel. Fairly quickly afterwards we got a 18’ runabout, then upgraded to a 24’ Bayliner that worked really well for us while the kids were small. As the kids grew, we bought our current boat, a Rodman 30 (aka Rodman 900).

This boat is set up great for a family. The admiral especially fell in love with the two cabin layout, one with a vberth and one with bunk beds. I was holding out for a diesel, which was tough in our budget. It also maximizes the slip, being limited by the HOA to 35’ LOA. So we won’t get any bigger unless we buy one of the 60’ docks in our area that comes with a different house. The other thing that might change is what we want as empty nesters, when the kids are gone this won’t be the ideal layout.

A number of friends are at a stage of their life where they don't want to be doing everything aboard anymore. Some are getting out of boating entirely, some stepping into smaller boats, and others are going bigger so they have room for crew. Going bigger with crew is no panacea--it turns out it's hard to find crew who is capable, dependable, and fun to be on a boat with.

I borrowed a Life Proof for a day in the San Juans. Blasting around at 45 knots was fun. Dropping the throttles at 45 knots and getting pushed back into your seat was really fun! Logs and other boats sure come up fast. This owner liked his first Life Proof enough to buy a second that is bigger and more luxurious.

The 3035 holds interest. The LF coupe doesn’t have a separate head the commercial version does.
It is a day boat for fishing.

like it
what are the measurements?

First boat was a Formula 29PC express cruiser, which with my wealth of boating knowledge at the time I bought on ebay.
A few years later I moved on to a Mainship 34 that I did the Loop on and spent a few winters on in the Bahamas over the next 10 years.
A brief interval with a Hunter 40 followed before I began my current travels with my Defever 48. When the time comes for me to move on it will very likely be a downsize to something I can trailer(perhaps a Ranger tug).

There were two LP boats on display at the Newport Boat Show I went to today. They are indeed very tough, well-built, sturdy, serious boats. But IMHO and from my perspective, they are also strictly day boats. They feel very capable, but the cabin 'accommodations' are extremely rudimentary. Fishermen or oil rig workers might not mind taking a nap or even sleeping on one, but the Admiral would never consider it.

They are also breathtakingly expensive! A 35 approaches a million dollars, and the even more basic 31 half a million. For my budget that's a LOT of cash for a day boat.

How about the Herley 11m? Remember this is NZD so USD430 base price.
Looks comfortable enough for short trips.
Trade Me

Yup as said several times want a day boat. Yes rare overnights but rare. Want the speed to get where the fish are not joyriding.
Meeting with chief engineer,designer and president in a few hours at Newport boat show.
Still open to other choices. Particularly AL without the external foam ring. Have arranged to look at other choices as well including grp.
Ideally want 9’ or less for trailering, bridges and rack storage.

darkside said:

How about the Herley 11m? Remember this is NZD so USD430 base price.
Looks comfortable enough for short trips.
Trade Me

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Love it! Looks comfortable enough for long trips, probably more than I need. Too bad it's literally on the other side of the world in New Zealand.

darkside said:

How about the Herley 11m? Remember this is NZD so USD430 base price.
Looks comfortable enough for short trips.
Trade Me

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That is interesting. What do you think of the 3400 hybrid power cat? That thing looks interesting enough that I might go see it in Tauranga in December.

klee wyck said:

That is interesting. What do you think of the 3400 hybrid power cat? That thing looks interesting enough that I might go see it in Tauranga in December.

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How do you get to the bow on that boat? To handle the anchor or snubber? And how do you handle mooring lines and fenders? Storage for those? Where to tie them?

bowball said:

How do you get to the bow on that boat? To handle the anchor or snubber? And how do you handle mooring lines and fenders? Storage for those? Where to tie them?

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Up the narrow side walkways like most boats that size?

That 3400 is a nice boat, we "borrowed" a few ideas from it for Ahi. I've never been on it but the NA says the economy is astonishing. Worth giving him a call if you are interested.
I see the price is down recently, the last time I saw it was in Marsden marina.
A couple of videos

Thanks for the suggestions.
Did the boat show yesterday. My thoughts.
True RiBs continue to make me nervous. The Defender boats fit my bill except for that. My experience in the Caribbean is although hypalon is better it still degrades in UV and any glued seam doesn’t like heat.
axopar and the other Finish go fast boats are too narrow for a fish boat. Great boats for going fast but not for anything else.
The carbon fiber boats are a same or more money than the Lifeproofs.
The small cats don’t have the room or depth between the hulls for any meaningful infill. Not an issue in larger cruising boats but is for stuff at 36’ and below. Definitely work for a day boat used for bottom fishing but again not for much else. However do go fast, have range as they are very efficient. Have been on World Cats and fished them off Marathon and the keys. Except for infill check my boxes.
Electric or hybrid isn’t there yet. I love my all electric Rivian R1T but for canyon fishing need over >200nm range to get there spend hours trolling and return. None can do that. I need at least 30kts to make it possible in daylight even leaving slightly before dawn. At that consumption all current offerings fail.
Classic center consoles (intrepid, Regulator, contender etc.) are single purpose boats. Also the same or more money than the lifeproofs. I want a house. I want it to extend my season by 2-3 months and have rudimentary infill.
The evolution of Novi hulls and down east boats will work and at far less money but are basically semi displacement. Limited in top end making some fishing opportunities off the board. Our seasons and fish patterns have changed due to MMCC. You may have false albacore off Martha’s Vineyard one day and tuna off P’town the next. My goal for speed and range is to get to the fish, fish and get home. CCs do this, SDs don’t.
Wife liked the Novi and down east boats. She grew up on those. I still like the LFs but had an excellent conversation with a classic down east builder in Bristol RI. Can do almost everything I want at half the price. A few years old at a third of the cost. But top end is a problem.
So we are arranging test rides in several different boats. including versions of down east and lifeproofs. Looking at 25’ to 33’.

Should mention spoke with the owner and chief engineer of Lifeproof. Spent quite some time talking about basic construction. He builds with 8mm plate. The other Al small boats I looked at are mostly for 4mm plate. He puts 4mil of 2000e on every thing. Can get more. Given most bottom paint is Cu based to date to avoid issues only ablative is offered. But apparently Al appropriate hard paint should be available in a few months. Piercings are either above the waterline or SS fully isolated. Everything is ABYC and passenger certified. Wiring is isolated and 2wire. A lot of thought given to protecting against corrosion including stray current. Doesn’t is grounded to the sea. Boat and its electrical system is fully isolated. Anodes Al or Al/Mg if exposed to brackish water. Upside is LFs have a very long service life. Downside is given commercial and milspec construction they approach the same weight as standard grp. Other downside is less fall in price used. Basically fall represents outboard engine hours.
Only other company that came close or, equal was Gladding-Hearns in my experience but they don’t offer anything in the small size I want.

Hippocampus said:

Thanks for the suggestions.
Did the boat show yesterday. My thoughts.
True RiBs continue to make me nervous. The Defender boats fit my bill except for that. My experience in the Caribbean is although hypalon is better it still degrades in UV and any glued seam doesn’t like heat.
axopar and the other Finish go fast boats are too narrow for a fish boat. Great boats for going fast but not for anything else.
The carbon fiber boats are a same or more money than the Lifeproofs.
The small cats don’t have the room or depth between the hulls for any meaningful infill. Not an issue in larger cruising boats but is for stuff at 36’ and below. Definitely work for a day boat used for bottom fishing but again not for much else. However do go fast, have range as they are very efficient. Have been on World Cats and fished them off Marathon and the keys. Except for infill check my boxes.
Electric or hybrid isn’t there yet. I love my all electric Rivian R1T but for canyon fishing need over >200nm range to get there spend hours trolling and return. None can do that. I need at least 30kts to make it possible in daylight even leaving slightly before dawn. At that consumption all current offerings fail.
Classic center consoles (intrepid, Regulator, contender etc.) are single purpose boats. Also the same or more money than the lifeproofs. I want a house. I want it to extend my season by 2-3 months and have rudimentary infill.
The evolution of Novi hulls and down east boats will work and at far less money but are basically semi displacement. Limited in top end making some fishing opportunities off the board. Our seasons and fish patterns have changed due to MMCC. You may have false albacore off Martha’s Vineyard one day and tuna off P’town the next. My goal for speed and range is to get to the fish, fish and get home. CCs do this, SDs don’t.
Wife liked the Novi and down east boats. She grew up on those. I still like the LFs but had an excellent conversation with a classic down east builder in Bristol RI. Can do almost everything I want at half the price. A few years old at a third of the cost. But top end is a problem.
So we are arranging test rides in several different boats. including versions of down east and lifeproofs. Looking at 25’ to 33’.

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Maybe what is old is new again......perhaps a faithfully reproduced version of the most famous fishing boat in history would work for you? The owner had her specially built and fished her for over 25-years. He once caught seven marlin in a single day.

The boat? "Pilar," Ernest Hemmingway's Wheeler 38. Wheeler will still make one for you.


6-min video showing modern construction of cold-molded Wheeler 38 replete with Seakeeper.


Peter

Hippocampus said:

Thanks for the suggestions.
Did the boat show yesterday. My thoughts.

Wife liked the Novi and downeast boats. She grew up on those. I still like the LFs but had an excellent conversation with a classic down east builder in Bristol RI. Can do almost everything I want at half the price. A few years old at a third of the cost. But top end is a problem.
So we are arranging test rides in several different boats. including versions of down east and lifeproofs. Looking at 25’ to 33’.

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Who is the classic Downeast builder in Bristol RI you’re looking at?

Agree with you on the narrowness of some of the Scandinavian builds. The Nimbus boats were like Ferraris, go fast but a needle.

I was also at the show on Thursday, we may well have been on some of the same boats at the same time!

Aren't "Defender" boats a model from SAFE Boats?

If so, pretty sure their collars are foam, not inflatable like on USCG/LE boats.

klee wyck said:

Up the narrow side walkways like most boats that size?

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It was a serious question. I didn’t realize it was that common not to have railings etc. in that size. I was comparing it to a helmsman 38 which has side doors and railings. I know I rely on those in my boat as it moves around. Is this not a legitimate concern? Even removing objects that get fouled on my anchor or attaching a snubber seems harder and I’d be lying on my belly up there afraid to go overboard if hit by a wave or wake?

Or walking back from the bow when locking?

Otherwise it’s quite interesting as it seems with its beam it would fit in a slip. And I’m curious to learn more about the hybrid system and its true range. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts as you seems very well informed and experienced here.

Nope air PS.
But the principals of Lifeproof were in Safe before starting their company. Same thing as NT and American

The old school hand lay up but tried and true construction is from
Wife said the 25’ or 28’ would serve her. She really wants small this time.

bowball said:

It was a serious question. I didn’t realize it was that common not to have railings etc. in that size. I was comparing it to a helmsman 38 which has side doors and railings. I know I rely on those in my boat as it moves around. Is this not a legitimate concern? Even removing objects that get fouled on my anchor or attaching a snubber seems harder and I’d be lying on my belly up there afraid to go overboard if hit by a wave or wake?

Or walking back from the bow when locking?

Otherwise it’s quite interesting as it seems with its beam it would fit in a slip. And I’m curious to learn more about the hybrid system and its true range. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts as you seems very well informed and experienced here.

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Safely navigable side decks are one of my (admittedly major) pet peeves with boats. They've been a must-have for me, and a deal-breaker if a boat hasn't had them. We're all victims of our own past experiences, and mine have been not good with boats without side decks I can easily, safely traverse in all weather and sea states (it cost me a knee).

That was a key reason I bought the Helmsman 38 Sedan, the side decks protected not only by railing but bulwarks. Makes docking, fending off, locking, line handling, etc. safe and easy.

I see the Lifeproof boats can come with 3 different version collars from mostly air to all foam. I would NOT get one that was less than 80% foam....better yet ALL FOAM which means maybe a different brand like SAFE Boats or the one Safeboat option.

Side decks are always a tradeoff, especially for smaller vessels. Sportfish usually don't have them and the North Carolina boats don't have bow rails either and weather worst situations that most of us wouldn't tolerate. No big deal for them, but they have the deck hands that manage with them.

I wouldn't now at my age and agility.