Water in Racor 500 after 11 hour trip

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TrawlerDavid

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Good morning, trawler colleagues. I'm just returned from our first 6 day cruise in the San Juans on Innisfree, our new-to-us 1976 GB 36. It was wonderful, and almost every system functioned well. Being a boat, of course there was something that needs attention. On the initial 8 hour move from Anacortes to Shilshole, there was about 1 1/2 inches of water in the starboard Racor 500 after a passage with some substantial waves. I drained. On the next outing of about 3 hours on flat ater, no water in the Racor. Then yesterday on an 11 hour return trip, when I checked the Racor it had water up to the turbine in the sight bowl, which I drained again. I had filled the tank with about 60 gallons of diesel fuel , and the rest of the fuel was there when I purchased the boat. Clearly more water than there should be in the fuel. Would best practice be to continue to add new fuel and check the bowl every 5 hours and drain any water and see if the issue continues, or is there a better approach? I know that fuel polishing is an option. The original steel tanks were replaced with 3 connected stainless tanks on each side (so they could fit through the hatch), so not sure how that would work with polishing.
The good news is that after 50 years as a sailor, I was skeptical of how I'd adapt to a trawler. Pleased to report that the adjustment is going well, and being on the flybridge to pilot and the salon eating dinner with vistas of the San Juans are wonferful. And being able to deal with a 3 know current without going backwards under sail.
Thanks, as always, for the shared wisdom.
 
Might be time to check the gaskets on your fuel caps too. Might those be letting rain water into the tanks?
 
I believe the most proactive solution would be to snake temporary pickup to the lowest place in your tank and use a manual pump or oil extraction device to pull the water from the bottom of the tank. The configuration of your tank may make this easy or very difficult, but you may be able to gain access through the fill hose or temporarily removing the pickup tube and snaking a temporary pickup lower, from the opening from the regular pickup tube.
 
Both suggestions are good ones. If you can reach a hose into the bottom of the tank, it would be great to get the bulk of the water out. I also think that checking the gaskets on the fuel fills would be really important. You aren't get to get as much water as you have just from bad fuel. If the deck fills are exposed, would be suspicious of those. When the fuel tanks were replaced, check to see what they did with the fuel vent line. While not likely, it is also possible that the vent line could have been poorly redone and you could get some seawater into the tanks through the vent in "sporty" weather.

I don't know how the GB36 is setup. Does it have 1 or 2 tanks? You mentioned the starboard Racor 500, does each tank have its own filter or is there a dual filter setup where you can switch from one to the other?

Until you get the issue resolved, I would start making hourly filter checks a normal part of your routine. Not sure how much of a pain that is in a GB 36, but I would not want to wait until the end of a 5 hour run to check on it.

As an aside, after having a raw water hose on my engine burst a couple years ago, I have gotten very intentional about making hourly engine checks. I typically just set a timer on my watch or phone then give the ER a quick look every hour.
 
I agree about checking the deck fillers and the vent hose fittings.
Reseal the deck fittings for the fillers and use O rings, lightly greased, to seal the actual screw in caps. I regrease my caps yearly.

Check also that the filler body is sealed to the deck.
If either one is not sealed adequately or has a failed seal then water can enter the system.
A neighbour had that happen and the water entry was traced to lack of sealing of the screw in cap, lack of a deck seal of the filler body to the deck, AND a loose filler hose allowing any leakage past the deck fill.
Once those were corrected no more water in the tank.

I think also that you have been given GOOD advice about the frequency of checks. You know water is entering the Racor so step up the checks to ensure no water gets past the RACOR. Next stop find and purchase some extra filters. If water gets past the Racor it could damage the injection pump, the injectors and stop you cold and cause a repair bill..

I would go to 1 hour untill you get some where to check for leak sources AND try to reduce the water already in the tanks.
 
Thanks for the advice. I was able to reach the former owner and now better understand why there was an issue. He had a guest on the boat 2 years ago who mistakenly used the diesel port for a pumpout and had started to put fresh water in the diesel filler port with a hose. The owner says he saw this and quickly shut off the hose but not before water was in the fuel tank. He said he contacted a fuel polishing company and they said to watch the filter and empty any water due to the small amount (1/2 gallon or perhaps more was considered small., I guess?) PO says he drained water several times in 150 hours engine was run since incident. Wish I'd known this before my cruise so I could have checked the Racor every hour, as suggested. I was also thrown off by having operated the engines for several hours on a calm day with no water in the Racor. I think I lucked out and caught it when the water level was at the turbine level but before any got into the injectors, as no missing or sputter from the engine. Will now put the Racors on a 1 hour check until certain the water is filtered out.
And I'll also grease the filler cap seals to avoid any future water issue.
dhays said:
Both suggestions are good ones. If you can reach a hose into the bottom of the tank, it would be great to get the bulk of the water out. I also think that checking the gaskets on the fuel fills would be really important. You aren't get to get as much water as you have just from bad fuel. If the deck fills are exposed, would be suspicious of those. When the fuel tanks were replaced, check to see what they did with the fuel vent line. While not likely, it is also possible that the vent line could have been poorly redone and you could get some seawater into the tanks through the vent in "sporty" weather.

I don't know how the GB36 is setup. Does it have 1 or 2 tanks? You mentioned the starboard Racor 500, does each tank have its own filter or is there a dual filter setup where you can switch from one to the other?

Until you get the issue resolved, I would start making hourly filter checks a normal part of your routine. Not sure how much of a pain that is in a GB 36, but I would not want to wait until the end of a 5 hour run to check on it.

As an aside, after having a raw water hose on my engine burst a couple years ago, I have gotten very intentional about making hourly engine checks. I typically just set a timer on my watch or phone then give the ER a quick look every hour.
Click to expand...
 
Wow, that is a pretty significant event for the PO to simply "forget" about. Knowing that there is water in the fuel tank would seem to me to be something that would be an important disclosure.
 
The PO provided maintenance records that referenced water in the tank and checking with the fuel polisher, but not the details of how the water got into the tank. I did a complete engine and hull survey, but water in the tank would not show up with the 45 minute sea trial. The PO was quite straightforward during the sale, and would likely say that since the engine ran for 150 hours and advice was that fuel polishing was not recommended, no additional disclosure required. But it would have been helpful (and safer) to have had that information before an extended trip with rough water, where presumably the remaining water was agitated and got into the fuel. I was checking the ER every 2 hours for anything unusual as good practice, but the Racors were not visible without getting into the engine room which I didn't do when underway because of the hot engines and swells. A lesson to me to make future checks comprehensive.
 
TrawlerDavid said:
The PO provided maintenance records that referenced water in the tank and checking with the fuel polisher, but not the details of how the water got into the tank. I did a complete engine and hull survey, but water in the tank would not show up with the 45 minute sea trial. The PO was quite straightforward during the sale, and would likely say that since the engine ran for 150 hours and advice was that fuel polishing was not recommended, no additional disclosure required. But it would have been helpful (and safer) to have had that information before an extended trip with rough water, where presumably the remaining water was agitated and got into the fuel. I was checking the ER every 2 hours for anything unusual as good practice, but the Racors were not visible without getting into the engine room which I didn't do when underway because of the hot engines and swells. A lesson to me to make future checks comprehensive.
Click to expand...
Yeah, while checks may be good practice, safety is paramount. It is easy for me to check the ER from forward of the engine. I can view the engine, the bilge, the raw water intake and sea strainer from there. However, I can't see the fuel filters (and vacuum gauge) from there. So if I am solo, I only check the forward portion. If I have a crew, I will alternate the aft ER hatch where I can view the filters/vacuum gauge and forward towards the aft aspect of the engine. If there is much of a sea up, I will only check the forward (under the stairs hatch) as that is the safest position.

All I'm suggesting is do what you can, but prioritize safety.
 
Make sure the water doesn't come with the fuel. Buy fuel where commercial boats buy.
Add a good fuel conditioner, one with a biocide. If there's water in the tanks, there's organisms. Find out if you have leaks in your tank fuel filler caps. That's a lot of water. If it gets high enough to be sent to the engine, you're dead in the water.
You can solve this with circulation and a good conditioner.
 
Can’t stress enough checking the seal on the fuel caps with a magnifying glass or just replace them outright.
 
Thanks! Will check the o-ring this weekend. Also will put some Vaseline on the threads to insure a good seal.
 
TrawlerDavid said:
Thanks! Will check the o-ring this weekend. Also will put some Vaseline on the threads to insure a good seal.
Click to expand...
Vaseline is great, but I always have a couple tubes of Super Lube on board. That gets used on just about anything.
 
TrawlerDavid said:
The PO provided maintenance records that referenced water in the tank and checking with the fuel polisher, but not the details of how the water got into the tank. I did a complete engine and hull survey, but water in the tank would not show up with the 45 minute sea trial. The PO was quite straightforward during the sale, and would likely say that since the engine ran for 150 hours and advice was that fuel polishing was not recommended, no additional disclosure required. But it would have been helpful (and safer) to have had that information before an extended trip with rough water, where presumably the remaining water was agitated and got into the fuel. I was checking the ER every 2 hours for anything unusual as good practice, but the Racors were not visible without getting into the engine room which I didn't do when underway because of the hot engines and swells. A lesson to me to make future checks comprehensive.
Click to expand...
Hi, the same thing happened to the boat I bought a year ago (we found 20 litres of water in the tank when the engineer installed new dual racors to replace the single spin-on filter). We thought we got all of it out, bit a 7 hour trip in lively seas got the water in fuel alarm going. I made up a portable fuel polisher with a 3 foot aluminium pipe pickup and stuck this through the fuel sensor port to the bottom of the tank and ran it for 5 hours.. that got the rest of it out…

IMG_6318.jpeg
 
That was a nice solution.

I have sometimes thought of putting a Racor in the fuel transfer line between my two tanks. The pick up from that transfer line is right near the bottom of the tank so I thought it would give some additional fuel filtering if desired.
 
dhays said:
That was a nice solution.

I have sometimes thought of putting a Racor in the fuel transfer line between my two tanks. The pick up from that transfer line is right near the bottom of the tank so I thought it would give some additional fuel filtering if desired.
Click to expand...
Where are the ends of the fuel transfer lines connected for pickup & discharge, before or after the existing Racor? Would you need one additional racor for each direction. I am thinking they are directional.
 
I had ‘water in fuel’ alarm right after a hurricane. I replaced the filler o’ring AND installed a fuel polisher. No more problems. I suggest replacing the fill cap o’rings every 2 or 3 years.
 
Try to find the source of the water.
Fill caps, Straight from the pump, or if it sat for a while with low tanks condensation.
You need to get a handle on it before you have an alge problem. The alge lives at the disel / water barrier. Once you have an alge problem its hard to get rid of it . They do have diesel treatments for water and algae. The treatment absorbs the water into the fuel so you can effectively get the water out. Once you kill the algae it falls off the inside of the taks and tends to plug up your filters quickel. So if you use a treatment like that make sure you have plenty of filters on hand.
Self removal.. About all you can do is try to clean with a hose and a pump by getting it to lay on the bottom of the tank.
You can have the tanks professionally cleaned.
Your Racors are doing their job. You can filter it out. Just remember if you overload the Racors you can get water to the engine. so check and drain frequently
 
SteveK said:
Where are the ends of the fuel transfer lines connected for pickup & discharge, before or after the existing Racor? Would you need one additional racor for each direction. I am thinking they are directional.
Click to expand...

The fuel transfer lines are completely independent of the fuel system for the engine. The filters are directional, but it would be possible to create a manifold that would solve that problem. More work than I am interested in at this point.
 
What i do when go on an intervention. first we have 20-50 liter canister with ready system to connect on engine with 20 meter hose 8 to 16mm barb.
in storm quickly canister in cockpit,1 guy hold with hose direct to engine filter.if engine pump is broken attack 12v fuel pump in line.
move boat in marina.

in marina coming truck or van and simply suck all fuel . fuel then go to recycling in garage. open fuel catch vacum all rest mud clean with water,suck again.
change all pipe. send bill owner.if tank is heavy dirty not possible clan,have company for commercial gas station steam clean with certificate,weld,cut tank. but this is very,very,very expensive.
for charge only coming on site with fast boat is 1000-2000€ depend distance
 
Greg QS said:
Try to find the source of the water.
Fill caps, Straight from the pump, or if it sat for a while with low tanks condensation.
You need to get a handle on it before you have an alge problem. The alge lives at the disel / water barrier. Once you have an alge problem its hard to get rid of it . They do have diesel treatments for water and algae. The treatment absorbs the water into the fuel so you can effectively get the water out. Once you kill the algae it falls off the inside of the taks and tends to plug up your filters quickel. So if you use a treatment like that make sure you have plenty of filters on hand.
Self removal.. About all you can do is try to clean with a hose and a pump by getting it to lay on the bottom of the tank.
You can have the tanks professionally cleaned.
Your Racors are doing their job. You can filter it out. Just remember if you overload the Racors you can get water to the engine. so check and drain frequently
Click to expand...
i use on end season algaecide for diesel fuel 12 of the best diesel bug fuel additives tested - Practical Boat Owner
 
Since this is an old thread Im assuming OP has progressed. When faced with similar situation I was able to disconnect fuel supply hose and connect a fuel pump and water separating filter for a DIY fuel polishing. When amt of water being removed dropped way off I took the boat out and ran it while monitoring the racor. I gained a sense nsuring for build up rate and continued to monitor & drain. When water accumulation rate dropped off significantly I changed Racor filter and continued to monitor and extend intervals as conditions improved. Different sea state, speeds & boat trim were helpful in getting confidence with removal before adding more fuel.

I considered drying additives but decided d it was better to leave the water separated and let the Racors do their job.
 
dhays said:
Vaseline is great, but I always have a couple tubes of Super Lube on board. That gets used on just about anything.
Click to expand...
Had some trouble finding SuperLube at local fisheries supply, as sold out, but now have a tube and using on the fill cap threads. Seems to be working well.
 
TrawlerDavid said:
Good morning, trawler colleagues. I'm just returned from our first 6 day cruise in the San Juans on Innisfree, our new-to-us 1976 GB 36. It was wonderful, and almost every system functioned well. Being a boat, of course there was something that needs attention. On the initial 8 hour move from Anacortes to Shilshole, there was about 1 1/2 inches of water in the starboard Racor 500 after a passage with some substantial waves. I drained. On the next outing of about 3 hours on flat ater, no water in the Racor. Then yesterday on an 11 hour return trip, when I checked the Racor it had water up to the turbine in the sight bowl, which I drained again. I had filled the tank with about 60 gallons of diesel fuel , and the rest of the fuel was there when I purchased the boat. Clearly more water than there should be in the fuel. Would best practice be to continue to add new fuel and check the bowl every 5 hours and drain any water and see if the issue continues, or is there a better approach? I know that fuel polishing is an option. The original steel tanks were replaced with 3 connected stainless tanks on each side (so they could fit through the hatch), so not sure how that would work with polishing.
The good news is that after 50 years as a sailor, I was skeptical of how I'd adapt to a trawler. Pleased to report that the adjustment is going well, and being on the flybridge to pilot and the salon eating dinner with vistas of the San Juans are wonferful. And being able to deal with a 3 know current without going backwards under sail.
Thanks, as always, for the shared wisdom.
Click to expand...
Latest update- Was doing preventative maintenance yesterday. Put brass tubing to the bottom of the fuel tank and pulled out a sample, and no water showing. Also nothing in the Racor after several hours last weekend, so hoping most or all has been filtered out. But I have learned that if any question or concern to check the Racors every few hours rather than waiting for the end of an 11 hour run.
 
I added a petcock to my Racor that allows me to drain while underway and my first mate idling along.
Higher RPMs wouldn't drain but idle worked fine.
It was handy when experiencing water problems and cruising confined waters / canals
 
Not sure if you can put a WIF, water in filter, sensor in a 500 or not. I have put them in 900 and 1000 and they will alarm when the water level gets high enough. I hooked them to my Borel alarm system, very easy to install and they can alarm on high exhaust temperature and high water also.
 
If you are thinking that the water is not coming from external sources, I believe the water is coming from wave/motion action in the tanks causing the water and fuel to mix etc. Before I had cataract sx I put water in my fuel tank, My mechanic pumped it out but told me the fuel pick up is 1/2in above the bottom of the tank. He suggested I run the engine and check the Racor every hour or so. After doing this several times all the water was removed.
 
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