Buy Now???

A Fleming 55 !
Wow !
Congretulations ! That is a great boat, I think we all have seen the Fleming series on Youtube, it is a dreamboat for me.

As for the cost of owning a boat ?
Yes, it is expensive, but the way I look at it is that I can do two things. I can stay at home, look at the flowers and wish I was somewhere else all the time or
I buy a boat, take her out to sea, visit places and accept that it costs money.

And then I can only think of: 'If you must be regretful, regret what you didn't do, not what you did. A man lets too many smiling opportunities pass him by.”

So wish you a great time on board your new Fleming 55 !

I find a freedom in being debt free. We paid cash for our last two boats, and made a conscious decision that we would only have as nice a boat as we could write a check for.

Watching the Venture video, I'm happy to see they chose the correct anchor and chain! Never seen a Flemming I didn't love.

Group9 said:

I find a freedom in being debt free. We paid cash for our last two boats, and made a conscious decision that we would only have as nice a boat as we could write a check for.

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Only debt we pay is charge card... paid in full each month... talk about the ease of "plastic cash" with no interest and a $$ %age of nearly every purchase returned!

Of course, then there is always 4/15 each year,,, wherein we all pay faux
interest; called tax!! At the lowest level we can have happen... :lol:

We paid interest on a charge card account one month. We also had a large carry forward credit on another after sending payment to the wrong one.
Yes very convenient, hardly carry any cash anymore.

I rarely have any cash on hand. $100 will last a couple months. Everything goes on credit and gets paid in full each month. The cash back is nice such as 4% for gas at Costco which is not trival when it was $5/gal. Same with Amazon store card. Extra 5% discount on everything I buy. Getting a check soon from Visa for about $1400 for 2022 cash back. Didn't pay a penny in interest, but it's an easy trap they hope you fall into if you come up short some months.

Cash back, never saw that as valuable as air miles.
What am I missing, at 5% it is $50 per $1000 charged.
We went to BVI and almost 90% back on air miles last year collected over two years.

backinblue said:

I rarely have any cash on hand. $100 will last a couple months. Everything goes on credit and gets paid in full each month. The cash back is nice such as 4% for gas at Costco which is not trival when it was $5/gal. Same with Amazon store card. Extra 5% discount on everything I buy. Getting a check soon from Visa for about $1400 for 2022 cash back. Didn't pay a penny in interest, but it's an easy trap they hope you fall into if you come up short some months.

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Yep, we take advantage of that as well, but we last year it capped out at around $9,000, and in 2023 it caps out at $7,000, after which it drops to 1%.
Between gas in the car, and diesel in the boat, with trip to Alaska, we were WAY over the top of the $9k

slowgoesit said:

Yep, we take advantage of that as well, but we last year it capped out at around $9,000, and in 2023 it caps out at $7,000, after which it drops to 1%.
Between gas in the car, and diesel in the boat, with trip to Alaska, we were WAY over the top of the $9k

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Where did you buy costco diesel for the boat, a lot of jerry cans?

slowgoesit said:

Yep, we take advantage of that as well, but we last year it capped out at around $9,000, and in 2023 it caps out at $7,000, after which it drops to 1%.
Between gas in the car, and diesel in the boat, with trip to Alaska, we were WAY over the top of the $9k

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If you max out you could always get a card from another provider and/or one in your wife's name. I have lots of miles from flying and lots of points from hotels, but never really found them as valuable as the cash back when it comes to credit card usage.

SteveK said:

We paid interest on a charge card account one month. We also had a large carry forward credit on another after sending payment to the wrong one.
Yes very convenient, hardly carry any cash anymore.

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I've a fire proof safe with important papers as well as enough Green to hold-on even if all hell breaks loose! Plastic is fun and easy... as long as the system works well. BUT - If/When Necessary - Cash is KING.

And, I always have two money clips in my pocket. One carries smaller bills... the other doesn't. Both show only the green-back side of a $1 dollar bill - only!

mike66 said:

In the end, the only time anyone needs a boat is when the one they are on is sinking and the one next to them isn't. Other than that, it's discretionary.

I like that, first time I've read it.

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Great, Mike! I stole it.

One important point regarding boat ownership/purchase.
Really, just about anyone can buy a boat these days. You might even say that just about anyone can afford to buy a boat these days.
BUT, (and its a big one). There is a big difference between being able to afford to buy a boat and being able to afford to own a boat.
I will use myself as a perfect example: I am retired, not wealthy but have excellent credit. I've even got a few bucks in the bank to use for a down payment. I'm sure I could get financing for a couple hundred thousand dollar boat. I could probably even make the payments on the loan. But I sure couldn't afford to own such a boat!
There is a big difference between buying and owning!
pete[/QUOTE]

Pete - Now aint that the truth! I run my life pretty financially structured and am risk averse when it comes to wants versus needs. That said I paid cash for the boat and have made and adjusted so many revisions to my boat ownership budget that I am (mostly) confident of its success. I even took the time to "interview" 3 F55 owners to learn the reality of ownership from an owner vs., say the 10% rule.
If that isn't enough I have a 50 page document from a financial advisor showing our life over the next 40 years (assuming I check out at 95) with every $$ input and $$ outlay as best as one can surmise. This "plan" has been updated annually based on the latest information and is great to have if you or anyone reading this has doubts. That said you would need to be willing to divulge the entirety of your financial picture beyond what is under management.

So buying versus owning....I think I am well schooled but ALWAYS look to others to check and recheck my assumptions and math. I am so paranoid that I asked my new accountant to forensically doublecheck the Financial guys numbers to ensure it works. HA! They think I am nuts...but hey it is my life and giant decisions are being made!!

Cheers!

FIRE said:

Bought it

A quick update on our path...We bought it! The right boat came up with (almost) the right price, solid survey and more features than we were expecting to be able to afford with the purchase validated by so many of the stories received/read from this post. Thanks to all - great perspectives from everyone (both pro and con).
So my wife and I are the proud owners of a 2006 Fleming 55 Hull173. Finally not a lurker to this forum but a card (er boat) carrying member. Happy to finally arrive after a lifetime of spending well within our means and keeping a vision board of photos with nearly every boat we considered over the past 5 years.
Woohoo -

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In reading this series of post, I think many of the thoughts here are still relevant today. My wife and I just bought a 1987 DeFever 44OC and this came after years of research, budgeting and timing it toward my retirement two years from now. Like many of the posts, we see a finite amount of "healthy" boat handling years as we are in our early/mid 50s. Our goal is to have 15-20 years of Great Lakes cruising and head out on the Loop at least once.

As for the financial end, buying a boat of this size is certainly expensive. Even one from 1987. Yes, the cost of ownership is stiff. $8700 for inside winter storage, $6000 for summer marina space and $1200 for insurance just to start things off. But we planned for it and it is within grasp for us financially. We have budgeted 30k or so for annual expenses which includes maintenance. As I told my parents when we closed on the DeFever a couple weeks ago, we have taken every good financial decision ever made and wadded it up like a piece of old paper. But as we all know, the memories, family time and experiences are hard to beat. I hope FIRE is getting everything they planned out of their Flemming. We certainly aim to do that with our DeFever.

Once you retire the cost of the summer marina should be gone, at least I hope they will be gone, because you will be spending the summer on the boat, most likely on anchor a lot and not every single day in a marina. A day spent on anchor won't cost you anything and that could potentially save you 6000 during the summer.
As for the maintenance, if you can do a lot of it yourself you can save a lot of money. If you are not able to do it yourself, it is going to cost you a lot.
But in the end you have to ask yourself the question: 'is what I am getting out of the boat (in time, in pleasure, in family time, in everything) worth the cost of owning a boat ?'
If the answer is NO then better sell the boat, but if the answer is YES...........keep doing what you are doing, you only live once.

Mambo42 said:

Once you retire the cost of the summer marina should be gone, at least I hope they will be gone, because you will be spending the summer on the boat, most likely on anchor a lot and not every single day in a marina. A day spent on anchor won't cost you anything and that could potentially save you 6000 during the summer.
As for the maintenance, if you can do a lot of it yourself you can save a lot of money. If you are not able to do it yourself, it is going to cost you a lot.
But in the end you have to ask yourself the question: 'is what I am getting out of the boat (in time, in pleasure, in family time, in everything) worth the cost of owning a boat ?'
If the answer is NO then better sell the boat, but if the answer is YES...........keep doing what you are doing, you only live once.

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Agree! Unless the engines need to be torn down, virtually all maintenance will be done on our own. First thing on the list come May is to set the valve lash on the Lehmans and general maintenance in other area. Fortunately, the POs have very extensive records over their 20 year ownership so most of that is up to date.

Once we are in the GLs full time, spending time at anchor will be the norm. That can't come too soon!

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to read a level headed boat purchase success. Too many people are blind to the real costs and your heart just breaks listening to the denial or reality.
I am in that position of being able to have paid cash for my boat, have enough money to fix it up the way that I want and be able to afford to use it. I bought the boat 23 months ago and have put 5,000 miles on it cruising.
Owning costs are as follows.
1st year 37%, 3,620 miles
2nd year 73% 1,375 miles
probable third year 67% 4,000 miles
Probable fourth year 35%, 6,000 miles

sneal4600 said:

Once we are in the GLs full time, spending time at anchor will be the norm. That can't come too soon!

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And I can tell you, from experience, that it is a very nice way to wake up in the morning, looking outside, seeing nature and realizing you are no longer in a traffic jam on your way to work.

PierreR said:

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to read a level headed boat purchase success. Too many people are blind to the real costs and your heart just breaks listening to the denial or reality.
I am in that position of being able to have paid cash for my boat, have enough money to fix it up the way that I want and be able to afford to use it. I bought the boat 23 months ago and have put 5,000 miles on it cruising.
Owning costs are as follows.
1st year 37%, 3,620 miles
2nd year 73% 1,375 miles
probable third year 67% 4,000 miles
Probable fourth year 35%, 6,000 miles

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The "paralysis by analysis" did kick in at times...lol. In looking through options like KKrogen, Krogen Express, Selene, Grand Banks, DeFever (and a few others) you quickly find that all these brands are a compromise in some way. For me, DeFever brought in a world class engine room for easier maintenance, a great hull design and at a very reasonable price point for the class of boat it is. Of course, we love Flemming but they are just a bit outside my price range and with 55 being the smallest one (to my recollection) just a bit too large for our first trawler/offshore cruiser.

I have heard great things about the North Channel, Georgian Bay, Lake Superior, etc. Priceless views! I am sure with the miles you have put on the Hat, you already know most of what we plan to take in starting next spring.

One thing I would offer any prospective trawler owner is to read "Mid-Size Power Boats" by Dave Pascoe. We learned a lot about the survey and brand choices through reading that book. As Dave says, "If I knew then what I know now I would have bought my 4th boat first!" I agree.

I scanned through this past thread and noticed my own post from 2022. Boy has the world has changed since then. Here I am a couple years later and I still browse bigger boats. I do wish we had bought a little bigger, and we could afford bigger more easily now than two years ago, but two things. First, I'm not sure I want to bite off the expense and maintenance and everything else that comes with say a 50 footer. Second, I don't know if I have the time and patience to learn another big boat. After nine years I know every system, every noise, every hum, what's behind each access panel. I dont know if I have room in my life to learn another boat.

My wife wants a Carver C40 Command Bridge. We saw it at the Palm Beach show a couple years ago. However, interest rates are not good and the prices haven't come down at all on that model since Carver shut down. In fact I get the impression prices have gone up, which doesn't make a lot of sense for a depreciating asset. As time goes by I think more and more that our current boat will be our Loop boat, our sail-away boat. Just too much effort and expense to go bigger again, when ours is perfectly adequate.

I can only advise that when you find a boat you like (one of the good quality well maintained ones that sell fast) make the offer and start the process.

You still have 3 outs;
1) Survey
2) Sea trail
3) Re-offer due to problems found on either survey or sea trial

Where does the state of the economy fit in there -

Delta Riverat said:

Where does the state of the economy fit in there -

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Well that's true. We don't do boats because they're wise financial investments.

Congratulations!! We were suppose to go to Burr Yacht sales and look at a Flemings but none were for sale in 22. We were going to , get on there "list". As luck would have it we cancelled went to Florida and bought our Nordlund 61 instead. Haven't looked back and loving it.

1st step to retiring on a bot. Get the boat!
Step one complete