10 Questions

[Rollysflyinghigh]

Im slowly tackling maintenance issues on a PT we just purchased.
I am heeding advice of others to go slowly and ponder things before changing them out.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why do my deck drains flow into the bilge? I have one manual pump, one electric (no float), and three deck drains. The main trunk is 1.5" plumbing that runs horizontally pert near half way above the bilge and each pump and drain line tees onto this via an upside down "P" trap. The "P" trap almost touches the underside of the dec/floor.
I understand reducing the number of sea cocks (right at sea level), but the system seems overly complicated.
Whenever I turn on the electric bilge pump, the water comes out the deck drains and pools. furthermore one of the deck drains is actually under the teak side deck extension (port side) under the top ladder and spills back into the engine compartment!!!! This side deck compartment houses Engine room venting with spaces to allow water to seep in.
Once the pump has run for a sec, the water eventually travels up the last "P" trap and out the sea cock.

Could I not just run a seperate line for the deck drains (3x) and tee in just prior to the exit line?
I think it is imperative that I shorten the heights of all "P" traps.

Thoughts on "no float"?!?!?!

2. I keep a spare belt hanging between Water Hose, as a back up.
Twice now the belt has split.
The suspect is the rad cap. It pops spilling fluid over the belt!!
The old cap is only 4PSI?!?! Is this correct?

3. The injector pump drain has stripped threads. the old owner used a
massive hose clamp to wrap around the whole unit to keep the plug in.
Should I retap and find a larger drain plug?
or......?

4. Rear engine mounts are rusted.
Should I strip down with dremel/angle grinder and use "BLUE STEEL".?
Should I replace thru bolts?

5. The big question!!
The stringers had a couple holes drilled at some point, near the midpoint
(transmission area) likely for an inspection BUT were never capped. When we
bought er, she had 1 1/2' tide line. I drilled a hole at the lowest point to drain
any fluid out.
Does it make sense to open up more FG and expose the stringer and use "git Rot"???

6. the VACUFLUSH system has one failed/seized pump. My thoughts are to rip the whole system out and start fresh.
Seems like a shame as the system will likely work once I replace the pump BUT the single pump is the same cost as replacing the whole system!!! (1200$).

7. Lead engine room panelling is starting to come off the walls. Thoughts on how to rehang/ cover sheets?

8. There is only shore power AC. Thoughts on adding a stand alone Inverter with solitary plug in Salon area?
Ill likely need more Battery as I only have one single 1700a ships batt. With solar panels already.

9. The second big question!! Sikkens or Teak oil??? I hear that there is a top coat for sikkens now that simply needs
to be reapplied every couple years... and to "strip down" there is a paste? that one rubs into the wood to clean and
prep?

10. The fuel tanks are steel, (Original? In great shape) and each has a sump. AND there are two fuel filters inline.
Im contemplating splitting the filters into two with a valve to switch out.
thoughts?

Geez Louise!!!

Im torn between "It aint broke don't fix it" and 'well, how can I improve this"?

Id love to hear what others have done.
I ll repost in a separate posting to ensure maximum viewings..

Mark

 

[DavidM]

Is this boat insured? If you sent this list to your insurance company they would say park your boat until most are fixed and get a survey done to tell us what else needs to be fixed to be safe.

David

 

[Westiculo]

2. buy a plastic coolant overflow tank like you have in your car
4. remove loose rust and try POR-15 system rust paint. That's what we did on ours and the coating is solid as can be several years later
5. Not familiar with the PT, but on our GB the interior of the stringers is foam, not wood, so it's not structural.

8. If you're going to add more battery, make sure your charger is appropriately sized. If it's not, probably makes sense to get an inverter-charger and take care of both at once. We put in a magnum inverter/charger and it's fantastic.

 

[sbman]

2. I keep a spare belt hanging between Water Hose, as a back up.
Twice now the belt has split.
The suspect is the rad cap. It pops spilling fluid over the belt!!
The old cap is only 4PSI?!?! Is this correct?

Are these Lehmans? You need an overflow bottle attached to the outlet at the radiator cap, coolant expands when heated and will go out/in the overflow bottle instead of spraying on the belts. Alternatively, you can go with a tube that drains farther down from that same port. If you do that you will run with a slightly lower coolant level since you need the expansion room, each time you 'top it off' it will spit out a certain amount.

5. The big question!!
The stringers had a couple holes drilled at some point, near the midpoint
(transmission area) likely for an inspection BUT were never capped. When we bought er, she had 1 1/2' tide line. I drilled a hole at the lowest point to drain any fluid out. Does it make sense to open up more FG and expose the stringer and use "git Rot"???

Are the stringers wood internally?

6. the VACUFLUSH system has one failed/seized pump. My thoughts are to rip the whole system out and start fresh.
Seems like a shame as the system will likely work once I replace the pump BUT the single pump is the same cost as replacing the whole system!!! (1200$).

If you plan to fix yourself, you can get a rebuild kit for the pump for around $150. If the motor is bad, those are about $250.

Here is one vendor, I'm sure there are others:
https://marinesan.com/vacuflush/vacuflush-maintenance-kits/

 

[GregBrannon]

Wow! Problems with a new boat can seem daunting and significantly reduce one's enthusiasm for boating. To DavidM's point, it's important that the boat be safe, and then it needs to be usable to keep you and your family wanting this boat and supporting the time and funding it takes to fix it.

Prioritize the problems listing those first that can sink the boat, catch it on fire, or anything else that makes the boat dangerous to operate. Leave the boat parked, either in the slip or on the hard if sinking is a concern, until the high priority problems are fixed. Create new threads for each of those high priority problems with pictures that show how bad the problems are, and get them fixed so that you can enjoy the boat, correcting the lower priority problems while you do.

Another option is that this boat is not the boat for you and yours, but I think these problems can be corrected and the boat made something enjoyable.

Greg.

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

the list

DAVIDM, Me thinks you are being a bit dramatic.

I started out responding to your blanket criticism, but opted not to.
Im not interested in having a pissing match.


I had a survey done and a mechanical inspection.
The recommendations are completed.

Thank you to the others who offered words of wisdom...

We love the boat and see years of great use.
The previous owners were diligent in her upkeep.

Loads of spares and maintenance history.
and all the time in the world to tinker away at the list.

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

The engine is a LEHMAN 120hp.
and the

Pump or motor is seized. I removed the whole unit from the boat to inspect closer.
Still leaning towards ripping out the system and putting in all new equipment.

I "poked" into the stringers and all feel solid. Curious to know why the previous owners did this. Thinking I will open up the lowest section for further investigation.

Thank you SBMAN.

 

[HeadMistress]

Hi Greg...


6. the VACUFLUSH system has one failed/seized pump. My thoughts are to rip the whole system out and start fresh.
Seems like a shame as the system will likely work once I replace the pump BUT the single pump is the same cost as replacing the whole system!!! (1200$).

I dunno who quoted you $1200 for an S-Series vacuum pump...I found it for $650 USD ($857 CAD). A rebuild kit will not include a motor nor the eccentric, so if it's actually seized, not just totally clogged up, you'll need the complete pump. And if it's been neglected/abused enough to fry the pump motor, it's likely to need other parts that can easily run the total cost beyond $1200CAD.

My advice: rip it out and replace it with a macerating electric toilet. You can buy the Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf, which is the top rated macerating toilet for $750USD ($989 CAD). If you can wait till the border is open again and get yourself a US shipping/mailing address, you can save a bundle by avoiding "international" shipping rates and fees for everything you're gonna need for this boat. Meanwhile, if you absolutely have to have a toilet aboard while you're taking care of all the issues at the top of the priorities list, a camping portapotty will do.

I'll be glad to help you work out what you'll have buy and how to install it all when you're ready to tackle the sanitation system.

--Peggie

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

PEGGIE,

THANK YOU FOR THE INFO.

what comes with, for a grand?
I want to replace TWO heads, both full size, holding tank (40-50g?) and pumps/macerator.

your words are helpful thank you again...
I have a US postal address...

 

[tiltrider1]

Before you rip out the vacuflush, determine if the motor is failed. Do this by disconnecting it from the plunger and applying voltage. If the motor has failed you can test the rest of the pump by disconnecting the hoses and manually cycle the plunger. Finally, are you sure there isn’t a blown fuse in the system.

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

TILTRIDER,

Excellent thoughts.

I believe the motor seized. It wont turn. When I try'd to operate the system it would blow the breaker...One out of the two pumps run...

Thank you, Rolly

 

[Jay N]

Hi Mark.


Congrats on your recent purchase of CATHERYN GRACE.


A couple of items that all should keep in mind here: The boat is over 45 years old and has probably had many previous owners. So, some things that might be found in your boat may not be found in other Pacific Trawlers.


Let me get to the issue that is most concerning: That of the fore-deck drains connecting indirectly to a bilge pump system. This is very similar to the system in place on purchase of WESTERLY in 1997, except that my situation also included the internal gray water drains from sinks & shower. This was a flooding event waiting to happen! Any water from the fore-deck drains could overcome the system (if the thru-hull were closed or plugged) and fill the boat from the shower drain. (My surveyor didn't catch this either.)



You need to think through your water drainage system.



The fore-deck drains need to go overboard. I installed a new thru-hull for this purpose on each side of the engine room almost directly under the drain itself.


I then installed two Rule 3700 pumps under the engine (my bulkheads are fairly open so any bilge water will end up under the engine) and connected them to separate thru-hulls in the aft strb engine room about 18" above the boot stripe.


The internal gray water drains (three sinks and one shower) were then connected to a bilge mounted sump pump tank, which is connected to the thru-hull just under the boot stripe on the port side, opposite the head sink. You can probably eliminate all P-traps with a sump pump tank installation (although I left two in place).



Aft deck drains have their own sump pump.


I'll let others who are experienced with the Lehman 120 speak to those issues.


The issue of the drain holes in the stringers is also of concern. On WESTERLY (and probably all boats of this class), the stringers are fiberglass encapsulated wood and are structural members as they run almost from bow to stern. These stringers provide the base for engine mounting. Every leak on the outboard side of these stringers will end up pooling next to the outboard side of the stringer. On purchase of WESTERLY, I found that a couple of holes had been drilled to let the water drain into the center bilge for eventual discharge.



My action was to plug the inboard hole, and inject cooper lignum (sic) until it was saturated, then plugged the outboard hole. Of course, you need to manage any water leaks that provide bilge water. It's not the end of the world to have a little accumulation, I wet vac it out once/twice a year.


Also, I ran the vacu-flush system for a couple of years, and as others of recommended, replaced that system with the Marine Elegance toilets with the Sea-Fresh option. This allows the use of salt water when you need to preserve fresh water supplies.


How you intend to use the boat will dictate systems, you should think carefully about that before you upgrade/update and make the boat yours! Good Luck.

 

[tiltrider1]

The plunger could be stuck or the motor could be shot. Motors can be sourced for $250 on the internet. They are the same motor as Sealand’s Trash pump. You can also buy a Sealand trash pump for $325 and use it to rebuild your S pump. All parts are identical except the base. You need to keep the original S pump base but you could transfer the plunger, lid and motor. Lot cheaper than $1200.

 

[Comodave]

Im slowly tackling maintenance issues on a PT we just purchased.
I am heeding advice of others to go slowly and ponder things before changing them out.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why do my deck drains flow into the bilge? I have one manual pump, one electric (no float), and three deck drains. The main trunk is 1.5" plumbing that runs horizontally pert near half way above the bilge and each pump and drain line tees onto this via an upside down "P" trap. The "P" trap almost touches the underside of the dec/floor.
I understand reducing the number of sea cocks (right at sea level), but the system seems overly complicated.
Whenever I turn on the electric bilge pump, the water comes out the deck drains and pools. furthermore one of the deck drains is actually under the teak side deck extension (port side) under the top ladder and spills back into the engine compartment!!!! This side deck compartment houses Engine room venting with spaces to allow water to seep in.
Once the pump has run for a sec, the water eventually travels up the last "P" trap and out the sea cock.

Could I not just run a seperate line for the deck drains (3x) and tee in just prior to the exit line?
I think it is imperative that I shorten the heights of all "P" traps.

Thoughts on "no float"?!?!?!

2. I keep a spare belt hanging between Water Hose, as a back up.
Twice now the belt has split.
The suspect is the rad cap. It pops spilling fluid over the belt!!
The old cap is only 4PSI?!?! Is this correct?

3. The injector pump drain has stripped threads. the old owner used a
massive hose clamp to wrap around the whole unit to keep the plug in.
Should I retap and find a larger drain plug?
or......?

4. Rear engine mounts are rusted.
Should I strip down with dremel/angle grinder and use "BLUE STEEL".?
Should I replace thru bolts?

5. The big question!!
The stringers had a couple holes drilled at some point, near the midpoint
(transmission area) likely for an inspection BUT were never capped. When we
bought er, she had 1 1/2' tide line. I drilled a hole at the lowest point to drain
any fluid out.
Does it make sense to open up more FG and expose the stringer and use "git Rot"???

6. the VACUFLUSH system has one failed/seized pump. My thoughts are to rip the whole system out and start fresh.
Seems like a shame as the system will likely work once I replace the pump BUT the single pump is the same cost as replacing the whole system!!! (1200$).

7. Lead engine room panelling is starting to come off the walls. Thoughts on how to rehang/ cover sheets?

8. There is only shore power AC. Thoughts on adding a stand alone Inverter with solitary plug in Salon area?
Ill likely need more Battery as I only have one single 1700a ships batt. With solar panels already.

9. The second big question!! Sikkens or Teak oil??? I hear that there is a top coat for sikkens now that simply needs
to be reapplied every couple years... and to "strip down" there is a paste? that one rubs into the wood to clean and
prep?

10. The fuel tanks are steel, (Original? In great shape) and each has a sump. AND there are two fuel filters inline.
Im contemplating splitting the filters into two with a valve to switch out.
thoughts?

Geez Louise!!!

Im torn between "It aint broke don't fix it" and 'well, how can I improve this"?

Id love to hear what others have done.
I ll repost in a separate posting to ensure maximum viewings..

Mark

4. As said above, POR15.

5. They may be limber holes but should be at the bottom of the stringer. Check the wood inside to see if it is solid. At the minimum I would coat any exposed wood with a couple coats of epoxy to seal the wood. Better is to line the holes with PVC pipe and seal around the PVC so water can’t get to the wood.

6. +1 on Peggies recommendations. Raritan Marine Elegance is the way to go. Virtually no maintenance at all. You will save a bunch of room without the vacuum pump and associated equipment. We have had the ME in several boats now and absolutely love them. Way less complicated system, less maintenance.

7. Look at Soundown products. There is another thread going on now about this. Depends on what the structure you want to attach it to is made out of. You can use sheet metal screws with a big S/S fender washer if you can screw into the structure. If you can’t screw into the structure then they make glue on pins that you push the insulation onto and put a cap on the pin.

 

[Jay N]

Catheryn Grace

Hi Mark/Rolly.


Here's a pic of your boat from Aug 2016 in Clam Bay.


Best, Jay

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

hi mark/rolly.


Here's a pic of your boat from aug 2016 in clam bay.


Best, jay

what a hoot!!! We were just there this past weekend..
Out to fish porlier pass...

Thank you jay!!!

 

[Rollysflyinghigh]

4. As said above, por15.

5. They may be limber holes but should be at the bottom of the stringer. Check the wood inside to see if it is solid. At the minimum i would coat any exposed wood with a couple coats of epoxy to seal the wood. Better is to line the holes with pvc pipe and seal around the pvc so water can’t get to the wood.

6. +1 on peggies recommendations. Raritan marine elegance is the way to go. Virtually no maintenance at all. You will save a bunch of room without the vacuum pump and associated equipment. We have had the me in several boats now and absolutely love them. Way less complicated system, less maintenance.

7. Look at soundown products. There is another thread going on now about this. Depends on what the structure you want to attach it to is made out of. You can use sheet metal screws with a big s/s fender washer if you can screw into the structure. If you can’t screw into the structure then they make glue on pins that you push the insulation onto and put a cap on the pin.

some really great advice!!!

Thank you everyone for the info...

 

[Salish Nomad]

Hi Mark/Rolly.


Here's a pic of your boat from Aug 2016 in Clam Bay.


Best, Jay

Beautiful boat, I think you will be very happy with her.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

What Peggi said - I ripped out two Galley Maid / Rube Goldberg systems and replaced both with Raritan Marine Elegance toilets - a so much simpler and elegant (if I can use that word for a toilet) solution. Can't go wrong. Good luck.

 

[rgano]

There was a comment on a video here the other day that installed bilge pumps should amount to 1,000 GPH per ten feet of hull length. I dunno 'bout that, but I would say you are very light of pumping capacity. Here's what I would do. Direct each bilge pump in the boat to a separate above waterline exit with a loop to the overhead (your description was of an inverted p-trap) to prevent backflow. FYI, I have over 8,000 factory installed GPH labeled capacity here on this 30-footer.

On my twin 120 Lehmans on my old boat, I installed petcocks into the injector pump drains because the Simms pump requires oil change every 50 hours, and that made it simple. Open petcock into a waste bottle; close petcock; pour in two 8-ounce cups of straight 30-weight oil (the same stuff you should be running in the engine); screw fill cap back on and you are done. The sump is thin aluminum and will not be so simple to rethread. If you are up to it, great, but get the petcock you want first so the new threads will be right. Otherwise, consider getting all the oil flushed out and the area really dried out before using some MarineTex to glue the petcock into place. I would be afraid of that lashup you have on there now vibrating off and causing the pump to seize up to the tune on more boat units than you want to think about.

I agree with deck drains to directly overboard down at the waterline with NO connection to bilge pumps. Had them that way on the 205 foot Navy salvage tug I commanded - kept the sides clean.

Never had a Lehman 120 belt split in 29 years of ownership - something really wrong. Have you looked at the pulley alignment to be sure the flywheel pulley, the water pump pulley and the alternator pulley are exactly in one plane?

Can you post a photo of the top of the expansion tank where the radiator cap is? If you have the old 4 PSI cap, I think you will find that it is very much larger than anything produced in the last couple of decades. I think what we will see in your photo will be the unmodified filler neck. Putting a coolant recovery bottle on the old 4-psi radiator cap set up will do you no good because that old thing was not double acting like you car is where the engine sucks back expelled coolant as it cools. American Diesel is your friend here. They have every part for that mod in a nice kit along with instructions. They have ALL the knowledge you will ever need plus parts for the engine. I gotta tell you though, taking a hammer and a chisel to the edges of the old filler cap neck of that aluminum tank was a heart-stopper until after the first whack. MarineTex liberally gooped on it secured the new neck and the 7 PSI cap into place. I doubt you can find a replacement 4 PSI cap of the old style.