1995 Grand Banks electrical question

[JonMenig]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of partnering on a 1995 GB classic. I took the boat for a test trip and noticed that I only had 110 volts on the boat (including running the refrigerator) when on shorepower or when the genset was running. It was my impression that the inverter would produce 110 volts from the house batteries (assuming full charge) when the genset/shorepower weren't carrying the load.
This was problematic since I was forced to run the genset every couple of hours while at anchor in order to keep refer cold.

I didn't see anything on the electrical panel that indicated I was doing anything wrong and the owner was no help.

I'm pretty sure the house batteries/inverter should be able to provide 110 volts.

Am I missing something here?

Many thanks
Jon

 

[SteveK]

Sounds like the battery bank drops below the set point on inverter and it turns off. Running the genie recharges enough so it works again.
SOC of batteries. Maybe the battery bank needs to be replaced or there is too much demand which draws down the batteries faster than you expect.

 

[STB]

Does anything work off when off dock power? For example a light or phone charger plugged into a 120v outlet? Maybe the refidge isn't hooked up, e.g. too many watts?

If other things work, but not the fridge, does your panel have one area for invertable loads and another for major loads that aren't invertable? Which is the refrigerator on? Maybe it isn't connected to the inverter?

If there a 12v breaker for the refridge? Or 12v going to it, otherwise? It might have its own point of use inverter, either built in or added by an owner. Maybe there is a problem there

What make and model is the fridge?

Not to be funny, but does the boat have an inverter?

What model is it? What is the rating?

What does the display show? Signs of life? Error code? Mode selected, e.g. off, charge only, ready, inverting?

Is it turned on? Is the inverting (versus perhaps charging) function enabled?

Is there a fuse or breaker for supply? Is it good or on?

Is there a battery switch for supply? Is it on? What bank is selected (house vs start)? What else is on that bank? Does it work?

Is there a source selector switch? Is the inverter selected?

Is the inverter enabled automatically via an internal or external transfer relay? If so is there a single or pair of by pass switches? Are they in the correct position.

Does the inverter have an internal fuse? Is it good?

2hrs later, when the fridge is warm, what voltage shows for the batteries? Do other high-draw 12v loads work, specifically those on the same bank (house vs start)?

 

[hmason]

It depends on how the boat is wired. The reefer may not be wired to the inverter. I’ve owned 2 GBs and that was the case on both. If it is a cold plate system the fridge should stay cold for a minimum of 24 hours and longer depending on the ambient temperature.

 

[STB]

It depends on how the boat is wired. The reefer may not be wired to the inverter. I’ve owned 2 GBs and that was the case on both. If it is a cold plate system the fridge should stay cold for a minimum of 24 hours and longer depending on the ambient temperature.

Oh, this is a good thought.

Leads me to wonder why he had to run it every couple of hours?

Was it not run long enough to fully freeze?

Is it not cooling well enough to fully freeze?

Is there a major air leak leading it to warm up really fast?" Maybe major icing inside and condensation building up outside, but super big time? Seems like it would have to be major for it to be a 2hr thing, though, like the door totally open.

 

[tiltrider1]

Not enough data.

As mentioned possibly the fridge is not on the inverter system.
Possibly batteries are damaged and can’t hold a charge so the inverter drops out.
Possibly that the inverter is not properly programmed or needs a reset.

 

[JonMenig]

Thanks for all the imput:

Here's more info:

It appears that the AC outlets as well as the fridge are connected to the inverter. This is because when on shorepower or genny, these both turn off when the inverter is turned off (on the panel).

So the problem isn't specific to the fridge.

The owner installed a new house battery recently and I'm wondering if it might have been incorrectly wired.

I test the batteries and they have remained fully charged.

On the panel the battery switch is on the "all" position.

For some reason the inverter does not seem to be getting power from the house batteries when off shorepower or genny.

Thanks again

 

[STB]

What does the inverter panel show? What type of inverter is it? Is there a fuse at the battery at the supply wire to the inverter? Is the inverter's DC ground connected?

 

[STB]

Do outlets supply power when on the inverter?

If not, if you turn off the refrigerator and then disconnect shore power, do the outlet supply power?

 

[JonMenig]

I'm not at the boat and it's 500 miles away. However, I do know that the fridge and AC plugs respond exactly the same. No power when off shore or genny. AC plugs go dead when shorepower or genny not connected or I turn inverter switch to off position

 

[ofer]

Thanks for all the imput:
It appears that the AC outlets as well as the fridge are connected to the inverter. This is because when on shorepower or genny, these both turn off when the inverter is turned off (on the panel).

it maybe that 110 power is going through your invertor when connected to gen or shore.

this would be preferred if your inverter is also a charger and is large enough to carry normal loads.

Why are you turning the inverter off?

 

[STB]

I'm not at the boat and it's 500 miles away. However, I do know that the fridge and AC plugs respond exactly the same. No power when off shore or genny. AC plugs go dead when shorepower or genny not connected or I turn inverter switch to off position

Gotcha.

The thing I was trying to debug is whether a battery v. Load issue exists or if there is another issue.

If turning off the refridge before switching to shore power results in an outlet working for a modest load like a phone charger or lamp, one possibility might be that the [initial] draw from the fridge is too high and shutting down the inverter or that the battery(ies) are too weak and it is quickly pulling them too low.

Without more information, for the moment, it is hard to sort. We can just offer random idea.

 

[JonMenig]

I think it's another issue since even the phone charger won't work when shore/genny not connected. It appears that the AC outlets and fridge run through the inverter since these shut off when inverter is switched off which it did to test this

Brand new house battery that shows full charge.

 

[STB]

I think it's another issue since even the phone charger won't work when shore/genny not connected. It appears that the AC outlets and fridge run through the inverter since these shut off when inverter is switched off which it did to test this

Brand new house battery that shows full charge.

Right. The only thing is that an overloaded inverter can shut down as can one with batteries that are drawn down. So, although I am inclined to agree with you, the possibility isn't yet disproven.

Basically, wjthoutnmore information, all I can do is to throw out possibilities, some more likely than others, for you to check later.

 

[SteveK]

You keep saying brand new battery, suggesting one battery. One battery fully charged will not last more than a few hours

 

[JonMenig]

Next time I'm on the boat I'll turn of fridge, disconnect shorepower and see if the phone charger works on the AC outlets. I'm thinking I might have already tried this.

I may have to get a technician out to take a look. Again, brand new batteries that have stayed well charged.

Many, many thanks for your knowledge!

 

[SteveK]

while there you may as well check battery voltage, check if the inverter is enabled, there is either a control panel or simple on/off switch. Switching inverter off saves battery as it draws power while waiting to be needed. Fridge may be 12 volt directly connected or 110/12v in that case switching off 110 transfer to 12v which bypasses inverter.

 

[JonMenig]

I had one more thought I didn't mention.

On the AC panel there is a large black dial with four settings: Forward Shorepower, Aft Shorepower, Generator and Off. I was instructed by owner to turn to off position when not on shore or genny. It would seem there would be a setting for batteries/inverter to power the AC if this was an option. If producing 110AC from the house batteries isn't a factory option for a GB, I'd be stunned. Additionally why have an inverter if this wasn't the case?

Am I putting the AC selection dial at the wrong position? It does seem logical that when in the off position, there would be no AC, inverter or not. In boats with inverters is there a setting on the AC dial for house batteries/inverter??

 

[koliver]

I had one more thought I didn't mention.

On the AC panel there is a large black dial with four settings: Forward Shorepower, Aft Shorepower, Generator and Off. I was instructed by owner to turn to off position when not on shore or genny. It would seem there would be a setting for batteries/inverter to power the AC if this was an option. If producing 110AC from the house batteries isn't a factory option for a GB, I'd be stunned. Additionally why have an inverter if this wasn't the case?

Am I putting the AC selection dial at the wrong position? It does seem logical that when in the off position, there would be no AC, inverter or not. In boats with inverters is there a setting on the AC dial for house batteries/inverter??

Yours being a 1995 boat, it is unlikely that it came from the factory with an inverter.
Given the choices on your switch, your boat would have come with a choice of fore or aft shore connectors, and a Generator. Add an inverter with its own control panel, no addition to the choice switching is necessary, as the inverter will be on, but not active while connected to shore power or generator, and off while it is combined with a charger and the charger is your selection of choice.
In short, your selection switch position will not be where you command the inverter.

 

[hmason]

A bit of an aside, don’t leave the battery selector on both. Use either battery 1or2, not both. Reserve 1 battery for engine start. Rotate between them regularly. Only use both if you are having trouble cranking the engine.

 

[High Wire]

You need to see exactly what the inverter powers. Sometimes they power a sub panel, sometimes part of the main panel or the whole AC panel. Sometimes just one load like a refer. Trace the output wires.

 

[STB]

Normally inverters use an automatic transfer relay. They are wired "in line" with AC power after the primary supply selection switch. Then they kick in automatically when that switch is set to off, the selected source is turned off or disconnected, or the selected source fails, e.g. power outage at the dock.

 

[koliver]

You need to see exactly what the inverter powers. Sometimes they power a sub panel, sometimes part of the main panel or the whole AC panel. Sometimes just one load like a refer. Trace the output wires.

If your AC distribution panel looks similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Traditional-...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583932699769423&psc=1
Look at the back of it to see how much of it is powered by the inverter. It should go to all of the panel except the Water Heater and the Charger. If it doesn't, it is a simple matter to disconnect the common bar from those two loads and leave them connected to the input from the shore connections

 

[tiltrider1]

The switch Forwardshore/aftshore/generator/off is up stream of the inverter and has no effect on the system. The fact that the fridge quits when he turns off the inverter says that the fridge is on the inverter system. I would like to know which inverter model we are dealing with. What I might have missed, is this an inverter/charger or only an inverter. Are we certain the inverter is connected to the battery bank. The fact that the current owner just changed the battery make me suspicious about the inverter not getting reconnected. I am also suspicious as to weather some one inadvertently reprogrammed the inverter to not invert.

 

[STB]

The switch Forwardshore/aftshore/generator/off is up stream of the inverter and has no effect on the system.

Upstream or downstream?

If there isn't a separate source selector for the inverter, it would seem to need to be downstream to at least sense power and I doubt it had inputs for all 3 sources.

 

[fskewes]

Holding plate refrigeration runs on 220.

 

[mbdana]

GB 110v power

On our 1988 GB Classic, our house batteries carry the load for refrig, lights and everything AC....our inverter will also run out 110v outlets for coffee, microwave, charging. Our reefer is original cold plate and will last 24 hours with power off which I sometime do to conserve batteries.
It sounds like your house batteries may be getting to replacement stage. I believe our inverter and power setup is original.
Good luck.
Mike Dana
Third Reef
36' Grand Banks Classic
Potts Harbor Maine

 

[Garrett]

On our GB -- a 2007 Europa 52 -- the refer (Grunert? with cold plates) is 220V. So, we require shore power (50 amp) or generator to run the refer (among other things: davit, cook top, A/C, and a few other things). I wonder if yours is the same?

On the A/C side of my power panel there are two rows of breakers at the bottom that are colored gray -- these are inverter powered, and the remainder are not (those I mention above -- including the fridge).

My refer has an option for DC power which is not installed on my boat. With that option, I could cool the cooling plates on the refer with batteries. Without it, only get-set or shore power. When on the hook we run the gen a couple of hours in the morning and the evening to cool the refer and charge the batteries.

 

[DennisB1]

I have a 90 gb classic. The boat has a 1 1/2 hp compressor that is used to cool/freeze the cold plates. The boat is all electric for the stove and heat. Normal procedure is to Run the gen set at breakfast and dinner to charge batteries and freeze the holding plates for the refrig and freezer. That is 30 to 45 minutes run time. The inverter does not power the compressor. The inverter does power the microwave when the gen set is not running.

You did not state you boat configuration/setup, there are a number of different ways that are used. Carefully managed they all can work.