2011 Raymarine Radar kaput...gradual process...I will describe it...

[Dune]

2011 Raymarine E120 wide MFD (multi function display) software V2.49, works fine for everything else (GPS, depth, video cameras, autopilot, Sirius weather) but the radar has gradually crapped out ...and now is totally kaput.

* Radar is 2011 Raymarine RA1072SHD 72" Super HD digital open array

* Power supply for radar is 2011 Raymarine VCM100 which converts 12 VDC to 40 VDC

* Seatalk is 2011 Raymarine SR6 model. I honestly am not sure if the radar even uses the Seatalk. Some drawings in the manuals show the radar going directly to the E120 MFD....but other drawings show it going thru the SR6. Naturally, installer didn't label anything so I have no clue what is what cable wise, on the SR6.

So, the deal is the radar worked fine for a few months but has been getting more "finicky" over time...harder to engage it via the MFD, "no data found" errors getting more frequent. Recently get "no data found" error all the time, but then found that the VCM 100 power supply had red light lit at "fault".

I reboot (turn it's circuit breaker off/on) the VCM 100 and it seems to work fine. Comes on with 41 volt output then after a minute or so goes into blinking green "sleep" mode with 13 volts output as it should.

So I think, ahah, problem solved. But not so.... I can get radar to come on again...but only for a few seconds after the array starts rotating and the first transmission images appear on the screen. Then it stops and goes into "No Data Found" mode again. So I start over, rinse and repeat (as many as a dozen times, same deal each try) All this time the VCM 100 power supply seems to work as it should (correct LED lights on, correct voltage outputs)

Eventually though the VCM100 goes back into red light fault mode again. And now that is all it will do. Every off/on of circuit breaker and it briefly blinks the sleep light, it tries to go into 41 volt mode (briefly see light for full power on) but then faults to red light.

So, you think bad VCM100, right ? But not sure, as it is seems to be more complicated than a simple power supply. If for example I disconnect the main cable at the radar array itself and power up it goes into sleep mode and stays there. So then I wonder if it's really going into fault mode because of a problem in the radar array itself ? (and yes, radar on/off switch at base is definitely "on"...but I even wonder if that switch could get corroded internally..)

Which do you think is the problem, the power supply or the radar array ?

Wish it had occurred to me to have a volt meter on the VCM100 output, right as the radar started in transmit mode as it would have been interesting to see if the 41 volts dropped at that time. Too late now as I can't get it out of fault mode.

Other possibilities include corrosion on cabling or connections and the Seatalk. Pretty sure connections are not the problem, dunno about the SeaTalk SR6...works fine for all else.

 

[what_barnacles]

I would think the vcm100 was doing what it was designed to do.

Chase the cabling and connectors.

 

[Capt. Jon]

I had the exact same issue with a RD2448 HD Raydome. Sent it back to Raymarine and they replaced it. It was something in the core of the unit. Funny, just like you I had an E120 and decided the RADAR issue was with the E120 (by the way they have much newer software than what you currently have for download) and replaced it with an E120 Wide. Same issue persisted to the new unit. Raymarine must have a known issue since I have heard of other dome and open array units having the same issue.

If you call Raymarine they will ask you to install the latest software before they will begin to help you. Also remember the E120 will only see CF memory smaller than 1 gig. Kind of hard to find one this small these days.

 

[Dune]

Spoke with Raymarine tech today and after my description of the issues he thinks it's a problem with one of the boards in the radar pedestal.

He didn't even ask my software version or if I had checked connections or the SeaTalk, thus I get the impression this is a common problem with this model....4 year lifespan with very little actual use...way to go Ray...

1. Can I remove the board box from the pedestal clamshell and send them just that ? (way less weight than sending the entire pedestal casting) (less the 72" array of course)

2. Any idea what a new board might cost ?

3. Does any other company work on these or am I married to Raymarine on this ?

I did Goggle the part number inside the pedestal and found I can buy a whole new 4kw pedestal as cheap as $2,600 (compared to over twice that much for a whole new radar with array). But hoping the repair is way less than $2,600 !

 

[Capt. Jon]

I have another of the same dome unit I discribed a one at Ray right now. Knocked it off the top of a boat while on the trailer. Called me last week with a repair cost of $365 and that included ground shipping. The tech put it on the bench and tested the core for an hour. Then he carried it up on the roof for another hour and said it was fine they replaced the complete plastic dome and top and installed the latest software. I had decided that if it cost half of the new unit or less I would go for it. I was pleasantly surprised and whipped out my credit card.

It will cost you a minimum of $90 for them to check it out. Might be well worth it. There is no one better than a factory tech to work on it. You might create you a login on the their tech forum and post those questions. They may or may not need the whole unit. Keep us posted on the outcome. Any dealings I've had over the years with Raymarine have always been really good. They have on several occasions gone over and beyond what I asked for.

 

[Dune]

It will cost you a minimum of $90 for them to check it out. Might be well worth it. There is no one better than a factory tech to work on it. You might create you a login on the their tech forum and post those questions. They may or may not need the whole unit. Keep us posted on the outcome. Any dealings I've had over the years with Raymarine have always been really good. They have on several occasions gone over and beyond what I asked for.

I filled out the online return form and it came back with a repair cost of $1,400

Not clear from the form if that includes them sending UPS out and shipping or not. Also not clear what it would cost if there is nothing actually wrong with it.

 

[Capt. Jon]

It's going to cost $90 no matter what. They called me with with the diagnosis and told me the total cost with shipping. So the most you will be out (if there is nothing wrong) is the $90 plus your shipping cost.

 

[JDCAVE]

OP said "So, the deal is the radar worked fine for a few months but has been getting more "finicky" over time...harder to engage it via the MFD, "no data found" errors getting more frequent. Recently get "no data found" error all the time, but then found that the VCM 100 power supply had red light lit at "fault""

I'd try and go up the food chain at Ray Marine and emphasize there's been a problem well before it finally died. They may lower that $1,400 amount.

Makes me want to,hang on to my 15 YO Furuno!


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

 

[sunchaser]

Spoke with Raymarine tech today and after my description of the issues he thinks it's a problem with one of the boards in the radar pedestal.

He didn't even ask my software version or if I had checked connections or the SeaTalk, thus I get the impression this is a common problem with this model....4 year lifespan with very little actual use...way to go Ray...

Yup, happened to me too. Our boating style requires a very reliable radar. Out with Ray and in with Furuno. Ray's financial woes a few years ago were partially triggered by a high number of warranty issues. Hopefully their new owner will do a better job.

 

[Dune]

Just an update that Raymarine had my radar core and the power converter hooked up at their place for 3 or 4 days and found nothing wrong with it !

So they charged the 90 bucks and shipped it back. I'm just now getting around to reinstalling it. Result is it still doesn't work for me. So I investigate the wiring. Voltage getting from 12 to 40 VDC power converter to plug at radar dome just fine......so figure the data wires are suspect.

Figure out the data cable is going to Raymarine SR6...which is a combination Sirius receiver and SeaTalk. There are 6 ethernet style in/out ports inside the SR6 unit. Radar data ethernet plugged into port no. 1, sonar in port 2. So I swap them to see what happens.

Now, here's the bizarre part. When I swap them, for the first time ever the sonar shows "Data not Found" pop up. Also the radar icon comes alive again up top. So I'm thinking....Ahah ! Got it..port 1 of the SR6 is bad !

But not 3 seconds after the radar icon shows up it dissapears again. So I'm thinking, oh great, must have been a short in the radar data cable that has now blown out port no. 2 in the SR6. But not so...swap 'em back and the sonar works fine.

So I try sonar in other empty ports of SR6 unit, like no. 4 and 6...works fine. I try radar in ports 4 and 6 and get "Data not found" !! So, sonar works in every port except no. 1 and radar works in no ports ! WTF ??

My only theory is maybe there is/was slight short in data cables that blew out port one of SR6 over time, but not bad enough to blow out other ports in the brief time it was plugged in them....but still bad enough for radar to not work, due to no data input.

I called Raymarine about it and their suggestion is to get long ethernet cable (from Walmart !) and connect SR6 port 4 or 6 directly to ethernet connection inside the radar dome to see what happens.

Still, so bizarre that SR6 port 1 doesn't work for radar or sonar..... and yet that is not why the radar doesn't work, as none of the other SR6 ports work for it either. And yet the other ports work fine for the sonar.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. C. You're quickly disproving that old saw..."Any port in a storm".

 

[Dune]

Greetings,
Mr. C. You're quickly disproving that old saw..."Any port in a storm".

What an unsatisfying response

 

[refugio]

FWIW I've gotten good advice on their forum. Takes a while to confirm registration, and the engineers seem to be on UK time, but good info.


Keith

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

Hi Caladan, this problem making you a bit cranky?

If the "identical" information is "supposed" to be present at all 6 output ports on the SR6 and Port 1 is not special in any way, then clearly that is not happening and explains the sonar refusing to work on port 1. I would disregard the fact you saw the radar icon flash when plugged into other ports, may or may not be a clue. The bottom line is neither the radar or sonar works on Port 1

A problem that stared intermittent & slowly got worse strongly suggests wiring issues in my mind, particularly if in the end you were tripping the power supply.

Were it me, forget the SR6 for the moment, it would be good to know if the radar actually works as a standalone. I would take Rays advice but connect the ethernet cable directly from the scanner to the radars "master" MFD. If it works, you found the problem. Bad cabling or goofy SR6. If not and since Ray said the scanner & power supply worked great for them then it has to be what they couldn't check, the wiring or possibly MFD. I wouldn't confuse things by updating software yet, it worked once on the old software & should again but still good advice once the problem is solved.

FWIW. I have an AIS / Ray compatibility issue whereby the AIS icon will not show on the Ray MFD unless it is receiving AIS data. ie: The icon represents the MFD is actually receiving data not simply that it is connected to an AIS device. In my case, "with no data / no icon" I can not access the AIS features and menus on the MFD.It is as if I did not have an AIS receiver.

My two cents worth.

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

Afterthought, Ray tested your 12 to 48 power supply & was fine, but they were not using your batteries to power it. If your scanner was tripping off moments after you engaged it, it may well be the voltages seem correct on the power supply but it can not deliver the current needed. As they worked as a pair, Ray proved the scanner was not demanding too much current & power supply could deliver what was required so that leaves your battery and of course wiring.

 

[Dune]

Lastest update. Today I connected ethernet cable direct from inside radar dome to port 4 the SR6 SeaTalk. To my delight the radar icon reappeared and the scanner countdown started after pressing TX. Then the radar icon rotates for a couple seconds, I'm waiting for images on the screen......and up pops the error "Antenna Not Rotating"..... Aaaarrrrrrgggh ! Tried a few more times, same deal each time.

There is the slight possiblity my test ethernet cable is not quite right as it's an old one and the connectors are a little loose.... so will buy new cable and try again. Raymarine says I need to go into menu and "select" the radar since it's like a new installation after being disconnected for so long.

Regardless, it is like this thing is possessed and determined to not work no matter what I do.

 

[Dune]

Were it me, forget the SR6 for the moment, it would be good to know if the radar actually works as a standalone. I would take Rays advice but connect the ethernet cable directly from the scanner to the radars "master" MFD.

Not sure what sort of receptical or plug type is used at the E120W MFD direct radar connection but if ethernet type, good idea.

 

[BandB]

Raymarine has had a lot of issues. I know the L series of Sea Ray has actually had to have some retrofitting of the systems to get them operating properly. If they recognize the problem quickly as if it's very common then they should cover the repair. Insist if they balk.

 

[timjet]

Not sure what sort of receptical or plug type is used at the E120W MFD direct radar connection but if ethernet type, good idea.

I have an E90W unit purchased in 2012 with a dome radar unit. The radar unit plugs directly into the E90W MFD with an ethernet cable. Since you have a more powerful open array unit it's probably why you have a power supply.

I echo the opinions of Ray's tech support - very good. Not so sure about their equip however. My E90W has several times refused to power up. Just yesterday it got stuck on the welcome screen for several minutes and I had to cycle it off/on several times before it finally came on line. Because of this and the more intuitive software of my smaller Garmin unit, I use the Garmin unit for navigation and the Ray unit for radar.
I have not checked for the latest software upgrade but I don't think Ray is supporting the older W series MFD's.

 

[Capt. Jon]

Flir bought Raymarine several years ago. The e-series including the Wide series were an older design by Raymarine and not Flir. I have had their equipment for years. The older MFD's are quirky. Personally I would start looking at voltages to the power supply as the older equipment is very voltage sensitive. This is especially since the clues you have given (breaker, etc) lead to that conclusion.

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

Seems my idea of direct connection may not have been so good. I assumed if your SR6 and radar pedestal connection was Cat5 then your MFD had to be. This may not be the case and probably why Ray never suggested it. Seems the idiots at Ray used special cables Cat5 one end and their own goofy plug on the other end. Interesting to note that they have now quit using cat5 altogether, which was idiotic in the first place, and now have yet another style goofy plug to carry data. Combine this with their seatalk, seatalkHSB and seatalk HS cables it is a nightmare interfacing their stuff.

Here is a substitute very simple idea I confess I learned elsewhere. get a standard network switch anywhere and substitute it for your SR6. If the radar works it is your SR6, if not, its the cable from the pedestal or MFD.

Important Note I read elsewhere & may or may not be true: The Ray cat5 cables are proprietary and work in a standard cat5 network switch. The standard cat5 plugs do not work with Ray devices. A generic network switch has exactly the same properties as the Raymarine switch.ie: your Walmart cable would not have worked anyway. Not sure about this though as it was my understanding the only difference in Ray cat5 & walmart cat5 was a waterproof grommet on the Ray. Regardless, this is still a fast simple test to confirm if SR6 is faulty.

 

[Dune]

Seems my idea of direct connection may not have been so good. I assumed if your SR6 and radar pedestal connection was Cat5 then your MFD had to be. This may not be the case and probably why Ray never suggested it. Seems the idiots at Ray used special cables Cat5 one end and their own goofy plug on the other end. Interesting to note that they have now quit using cat5 altogether, which was idiotic in the first place, and now have yet another style goofy plug to carry data. Combine this with their seatalk, seatalkHSB and seatalk HS cables it is a nightmare interfacing their stuff.

Here is a substitute very simple idea I confess I learned elsewhere. get a standard network switch anywhere and substitute it for your SR6. If the radar works it is your SR6, if not, its the cable from the pedestal or MFD.

Important Note I read elsewhere & may or may not be true: The Ray cat5 cables are proprietary and work in a standard cat5 network switch. The standard cat5 plugs do not work with Ray devices. A generic network switch has exactly the same properties as the Raymarine switch.ie: your Walmart cable would not have worked anyway. Not sure about this though as it was my understanding the only difference in Ray cat5 & walmart cat5 was a waterproof grommet on the Ray. Regardless, this is still a fast simple test to confirm if SR6 is faulty.

The direct to MFD connection is a Cat5 looking plug....allbeit with a screw type watertight connection surrounding it. I pluged my CAT5 connector directing in, fit perfect.....and yet get nothing regarding radar on the MFD.

The manual shows this done but there is a "crossover coupler*" in between the CAT5 plug and the MFD. No where does it mention why this is necessary..... but the term "crossover" hints at perhaps pin out differences ? (wire no. 1 going to where wire no. 3 is....that sort of thing ?) But I'm just guessing really...no where is this actually explained.

If that is what is happening, apparently the "crossover" happens in the SR6 SeaTalk automatically...except my SR6 is suspect as to working properly.

Googling Raymarine digital radar pinouts seems to indicate everytime someone asks about that on the Raymarine Tech forum they basically refuse to answer the question.

I did get a new ethernet cable, I even bought a tester for same. Didn't help...same deal...radar now gets data but everytime it starts get "Antenna not rotating" error. Except sometimes it actually does rotate....I rushed up the the flybridge once and saw it rotating for probably 8 seconds...even got a little radar image data on the screen once....then it stopped rotating and I got the same "Antenna not rotating" error again. Driving me nuts.

RE the other member mentioning voltage...I thought about that...I checked the voltage converter output as the antenna was briefly rotating and got 41 volt reading.....what it should be. Stayed at that voltage for a while even after rotation stopped, before going into sleep mode.

*http://www.westmarine.com/buy/rayma...e=&network=g&gclid=COf00f7r3MgCFVQkgQod3yENrg

 

[Dune]

Post no. 6 at below link is interesting..... so perhaps that is indeed the problem with direct plug to the MFD.....gotta have that crossover coupler..sheesh, what a PITA...


Raymarine seatalk2 cables - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

I concur with your findings, it appears you would require this crossover which takes the place of the network switch in revising the cat5 pin-out arrangement. Probably not worth buying the crossover just for a test, nonetheless others have reported success using an off the shelf network switch in place of Rays network switch or SR6. If true, this accomplishes the same thing and would be a very cheap easy test to narrow down where the problem is.

Points:
-My info was wrong. Based on your info, Ray Cat5 cables and generic cat5 cables "are in fact the same", except for the waterproof plug end and should be electrically interchangeable. Ray essentially confirmed this by telling you to try one between the SR6 & radar pedestal.
-The fact that a crossover is required where an installation is not using a network switch or SR6 confirms that your SR6 is indeed also a crossover.
-The Ray crossover is wired essentially the same as a standard ethernet "crossover cable" and would/should work in place of their crossover.

While it is largely unimportant, I would be curious to know which requires the pin-out change, the MFD or pedestal?

It would also be simple & quick to make a crossover, just cut the male and female end off an old cat5 & splice them back together according to the diagram in your link.

 

[hmason]

I know what you're going thru. When I bought my boat as 3rd owner, everything was Raymarine. MFDs were E 120 and E 80. I suffered one gremlin after another. Spent hours on the phone with their tech support, hours holding with obnoxious music for tech support, many $$ paid to more than one electronics tech to come to the boat and check things out. Never got it to work right. Finally got so disgusted that I ripped out the whole stinking mess and bought a complete suite of Garmin electronics; MFDs, radar, sonar, autopilot. I've been very happy with Garmin. And, BTW, their tech support picks up the phone virtually immediately, USA based and efficient. This is just another data point for you. Good luck,

 

[Dune]

While it is largely unimportant, I would be curious to know which requires the pin-out change, the MFD or pedestal?

MFD. Internal pedestal cable wires correspond to standard CAT5 cable. It is interesting that the external radar pedestal receptical has 4 data pins and these 4 pins correspond exactly to the same 4 wires that are typically crossed over... 1,2,3 and 6.

I know this as I did continuity test* between the 8 contacts of the ethernet plug and those 4 pins just to be sure there was no problem with the internal cable. I took notes of which ethernet plug corresponded to which pin on the pedestal. Ethernet terminals 4,5,7,8 are not used.

Re crossover couplers....you are probably right that the crossoever that Raymarine wants seems to be standard protocol, such that any cheap plastic crossover should work for test purposes. I went to Staples yesterday to get some office supplies and while there looked at their ethernet stuff. To my annoyance, they had crossover patch cables and a straight thru coupler, but no crossover coupler. I could buy both of course and make up something but that would cost even more than the official Raymarine crossover.

Going to pick up a repaired office computer today and hope the computer repair shop has a crossover coupler. The kicker is that I probably have one already from some past auction cache of commercial electronic stuff but would take hours of looking to find something that may or may not exist, so forget that.

===============================

* As an aside, as my multimeter probes were not sharp enough to get between each ethernet contact, I used a small pocket knife with alligator cord connected from knife blade to the multimeter probe, such that the knife point served as a sort of probe.... a nice alternative to driving 32 mile round trip to my shop to get some sharper probes...or sanding/grinding an existing probe tip

 

[Dune]

Just occured to me the crossover might actually occur in the cable from the SR6 Seatalk to the MFD rather than in the Seatalk itself ! I only mention this because if that were the case I could actually use that straight line coupler from Staples to connect my long CAT5 cable to the Seatalk to MFD cable !

 

[Capt Kangeroo]

I don't think so, as a crossover coupler is required only if you eliminate the SR6 network switch. A cross over cable would negate the need for a coupler.

You may not have a crossover in your storage but very likely have an old network switch. You seem hesitant to try this, is it more involved than I envision or possibly worried it may blow something? If the latter, I note by the info/drawings you found that there is no instance in the crossover vs straight-thru pin outs that cross grounds with power wires so it "should" be safe. (should being the key word there, I am no expert just throwing out ideas)

 

[Dune]

I don't think so, as a crossover coupler is required only if you eliminate the SR6 network switch. A cross over cable would negate the need for a coupler.

You may not have a crossover in your storage but very likely have an old network switch. You seem hesitant to try this, is it more involved than I envision or possibly worried it may blow something? If the latter, I note by the info/drawings you found that there is no instance in the crossover vs straight-thru pin outs that cross grounds with power wires so it "should" be safe. (should being the key word there, I am no expert just throwing out ideas)

No, not hesitate....chomping at the bit in fact...but it's raining for the next few days and don't want to reopen the radar pedestal in the rain, plus have to leave for a trade show.

As it turns out, our local computer repair place had both types of RJ45 couplers... straight and crossover (crossover one even has a wiring diagram on top to confirm what is crossed..perfect).... cheap... so I bought one of each to have all bases covered. But may be Thursday before I get back to it.

 

[Dune]

On Saturday I connected the radar directly from the core electronics to both E120W MFD's (one at a time of course). The bizarre thing is that it did help to do it that way, in fact on one attempt the radar worked for an HOUR.

(not the first attempt, mind you....otherwise I would have proclaimed it "fixed" at last...but I knew eventually it would fail again from previous efforts where it ran perhaps 10 minutes or less...was just amazed it worked fine for an hour before restorting back to bad as ever)

But alas, in the end, it resorted back to "Antenna not rotating" error happening within seconds of pressing "TX".

Raymarine tech now thinks heading flash sensor or gear box is on the way out. Only way to know and fix is send it BACK to Raymarine AGAIN...but this time send the entire 50 lbs of pedestal, not just the core.

A summary so far shows at least 3 different problems-

1. Broken data wire caused original "Data not Found" issue
2. Bad no. 1 port at SeaTalk may also have contributed to "Data not Found"
3. Bad something else causing "Antenna not rotating" issue

And this on a system only 4 years old with radar used probably 2 or 3 hours at the most and pristine inside the pedestal...zero corrosion. Amazing.

=================

As an aside, it actually didn't make any difference on the straight versus crossover coupler. I bought both and used both....made no difference !