Abyc e-13

[Trawlerdream]

Some questions in relation to E-13

1. Is DIY battery build allowed if the cells have a UL listing? I guess not as there is no manual?

2. Is it mandatory to have an early warning for BMS shut down?
If so how what time between warning and shut down?

 

[Bob Cofer]

1. Individual listed UL components do not make a UL listed assembly. It must be inspected and reviewed to be listed as an Assembly.

 

[psneeld]

Wonder what Rolls batteries fall under?

 

[tiltrider1]

Some questions in relation to E-13

1. Is DIY battery build allowed if the cells have a UL listing? I guess not as there is no manual?

2. Is it mandatory to have an early warning for BMS shut down?
If so how what time between warning and shut down?

ABYC is not mandatory. However if you feel the need to be ABYC compliant you will need an early warning shut down. How early the warning is not defined so you can pick any point you choose.

 

[Trawlerdream]

1. Individual listed UL components do not make a UL listed assembly. It must be inspected and reviewed to be listed as an Assembly.

What you write make sense to me.

But I read Tanglewoods post in an earlier thread regards to wE-13. He indicated that cell approval would be sufficent.


”All batteries and/or cells need to comply with at least one of a handful of UL and ISO standards. In practice this boils down to requiring that all cells must minimally meet UL 1642 or the ISO equivalent. These certifications ensure that cells don't explode, catch fire, or do other dangerous things when subject to electrical and mechanical abuse. It's a very important starting point for a safe system, and any reputable device should these requirements, but check.”

I do not have access to the E-13. So a valid question is if cell approval is sufficent.

 

[Trawlerdream]

ABYC is not mandatory. However if you feel the need to be ABYC compliant you will need an early warning shut down. How early the warning is not defined so you can pick any point you choose.

ABYC compliant is not really important for me. But following their standard as much as possible is a good start for a safe installation. I’m sure it would not be a bad thing if selling the boat or fighting with the insurer if something would happen.

Internet wisdom kind of indicates that the early warning is more a recommendation than a requirement?

 

[Riverguy]

ABYC E-13 and LiFePO4

Some questions in relation to E-13

1. Is DIY battery build allowed if the cells have a UL listing? I guess not as there is no manual?

2. Is it mandatory to have an early warning for BMS shut down?
If so how what time between warning and shut down?

Quickly...1=YES and 2=NO.

It's important to remember that E-13 is worded specifically to define a "battery" as one or more cells connected together, and defines "cell" as a single electro-chemical device producing a voltage defined by that chemistry. Also, make note of the use of "shall" vs. "should".

Also, ABYC does not dictate what is 'allowed' in DIY context. ABYC authority comes from the Code of Federal Regulations (Coast Guard) and is applicable to vessels and jurisdictions defined in law. That said, there is no bad advice in any ABYC standard I've seen, but I've seen lots of bad interpretations.

The E-13 specification refers to "Lithium-ion" chemistries specifically and has not yet addressed the newest and safest type of batteries, the Lithium-Ferro-Phosphate (LFP or LiFePo4) batteries. NASA and other researchers have found it is virtually impossible to provoke "thermal runaway" in these batteries (with or without a BMS) and I consider these batteries to belong to a separate class altogether. I can't imagine installing any other type of batteries in any boat now that LiFePo4 is available. Given the severe environmental constraints required for safe installation and operation of other Li-ion chemistries, I think they should all be banned on boats. At the very least, ABYC should point out the differences in various chemistries.

I have not seen any BMS managed battery or BMS standalone system that carries a UL certification -- I'm not even sure UL has addressed this with a standard.

As far as a "user manual", the manual that comes with the BMS system you choose should be included.

I absolutely LOVE the Daly brand Bluetooth-enabled BMS systems for LiFePO4 (technology by Hyundai I think) either in DIY or pre-embedded in sealed LiFePO4 batteries.

 

[Don L]

ABYC is not mandatory. However if you feel the need to be ABYC compliant you will need an early warning shut down. How early the warning is not defined so you can pick any point you choose.

that isn't true about the warning system. ABYC says it "should" have that and the definition is is that "should" is NOT mandatory

It would be a crazy requirement. There is no requirement that the main battery fuse blew or the breaker tripped for an acid battery system.

 

[twistedtree]

Quickly...1=YES and 2=NO.

It's important to remember that E-13 is worded specifically to define a "battery" as one or more cells connected together, and defines "cell" as a single electro-chemical device producing a voltage defined by that chemistry. Also, make note of the use of "shall" vs. "should".

Also, ABYC does not dictate what is 'allowed' in DIY context. ABYC authority comes from the Code of Federal Regulations (Coast Guard) and is applicable to vessels and jurisdictions defined in law. That said, there is no bad advice in any ABYC standard I've seen, but I've seen lots of bad interpretations.

The E-13 specification refers to "Lithium-ion" chemistries specifically and has not yet addressed the newest and safest type of batteries, the Lithium-Ferro-Phosphate (LFP or LiFePo4) batteries. NASA and other researchers have found it is virtually impossible to provoke "thermal runaway" in these batteries (with or without a BMS) and I consider these batteries to belong to a separate class altogether. I can't imagine installing any other type of batteries in any boat now that LiFePo4 is available. Given the severe environmental constraints required for safe installation and operation of other Li-ion chemistries, I think they should all be banned on boats. At the very least, ABYC should point out the differences in various chemistries.

I have not seen any BMS managed battery or BMS standalone system that carries a UL certification -- I'm not even sure UL has addressed this with a standard.

As far as a "user manual", the manual that comes with the BMS system you choose should be included.

I absolutely LOVE the Daly brand Bluetooth-enabled BMS systems for LiFePO4 (technology by Hyundai I think) either in DIY or pre-embedded in sealed LiFePO4 batteries.

All good info above!!


The question about separating out the different Li-ion technologies has been a recurring debate in the E-13 committee. Feedback on the topic is welcome as it will get reviewed and likely revised over the next two years. Interestingly I have heard two camps of feedback. One group poo-poos the standard as being too weak. The other group wants to see LFP exempt from pretty much all the requirements - no BMS, nothing. In many ways both groups have a good point, depending on what chemistry you are talking about, which further suggests some sort of bifurcation based on chemistry.

 

[Trawlerdream]

Thanks for the input.

Today I got to read the ABYC E-13.

As some of you posted.

1. Battery or cells shall meet the testing standard.

2. Early warning is not mandatory.