Advise: Best company for getting a "6-Pack Captains License".

[David Hope]

Checking in to getting my 6-pack captains license and looking for any advise. Programs, on-line schools, etc. I may not ever use it with paying passengers, etc but it will help me be a better/safer captain of my boat.

 

[ranger58sb]

Depends on where you are -- the info on the side of your post isn't complete, so can't tell -- but Annapolis School of Seamanship is one that's very good.

-Chris

 

[SIBERNUT]

I have had a license for years. If you want education, there's better ways to get it. The schools tend to focus on getting thru the test. While very good, other subjects may not be addressed. Also, when I got mine (100/100) , you had to provide PROOF of sea time on a vessel close to the size you want. Things change, and that not be the stumbling block anymore . Good luck on your quest !

 

[O C Diver]

Checking in to getting my 6-pack captains license and looking for any advise. Programs, on-line schools, etc. I may not ever use it with paying passengers, etc but it will help me be a better/safer captain of my boat.

Most schools that help you get a license are not designed to do anything but prep you to answer questions on the USCG exam and fill out the government's paperwork. I'm not saying there isn't value in these schools, but you may want a more hands-on approach. The assumption of most of these schools is that you have apprenticed under a knowledgeable captain and need help passing the book work exam.

The schools offer cram sessions that bring you up to speed for the exam (which should be done within 30 days), as opposed to retaining information for the long term. You would likely be better served by seeking out boating education classes in your area or contacting clubs in your area to see what classes are offered.

You might give this site a look to see if there's an affiliate in your area.

Home

www.usps.org

Ted

 

[TBill36]

Got mine years ago and have since let it lapse. I think it takes renewal every 5 years. Technically, I was supposed to be enrolled in a random drug program and had to acquire a TWIC, transportation workers identification card. Then on top of that you will be held to a higher standard in case of an accident.

It was fun taking the course. It was a classroom course taught by a retired navy captain from an oiler. The stories were worth every penny.

Not sure I've ever used anything I've learned. Common sense will get you through just about everything. I've never attended a course that said look behind you before making a hard turn.

 

[mvweebles]

There are indeed several schools. 25-years ago I used Maritime Institute out of San Diego. They do indeed 'teach to the exam' which isn't a bad thing. I learned a lot of useful information (and some not-so-useful information). As Sibernut says, sea time needed to be documented which isn't as easy to fudge as folks make it seem - had to provide signed letters from a verifiable source affirming your experience.

Personally, I think it's a great use of time. 2-weeks full-time.

Peter

 

[murofrelwart]

I went to and highly recommend Chapman's School of Seamanship in Stuart, FL.

 

[Osprey69]

FWIW...even if you not a paid captain, as a amateur skipper aboard a boat that had an accident, you you will be held to a higher standard of care than someone without a license.

I let my 75 ton Ocean Operators license lapse when in law school. I doubt lawyers have become less aggressive over time...

 

[psneeld]

Many schools out there, but real education comes from the teacher so it is always hit or miss whatever school you enroll in. Sea School on the East coast has been around and refined itself over the years like many so again, as long as they are certified by the USCG to give the exam, it may not matter.

You still have to prove sea time and it is reviewed by the USCG as a "reality check" if you were really on the water for the required amount of time, on what vessels, where you did it and probably what you may have learned along the way.

Yes.... the courses prep you for the tests. They also cover all the subject areas you need to know about. ANY professional training never teaches you everything or gives practical experience. No employer assumes a guy with a captain's license in their hand and little or no professional experience is much more than a recreational boater till they prove themselves. I have seen more than a few "licensed captains" get fired because their perception of how good they were was far below what was required for their level of license.

No matter what, to get a job learning anything, good chance that you will need the license first to even get hire. Not many entry level jobs do you get tutored as when working, teaching takes a back seat to getting the job done.

Many of my 6-pack captain graduates worked as mates on sport boats, got their license to run the boat and within a few years had forgotten most of the course material except what was commonly necessary in running that boat. So the system is imperfect, but I saw the same behavior between captains that had taken a "licensing course" or had done it by coming from the deck plates.

Bottom line, the ONLY thing that makes you become a better captain is not licensing or just getting out on the water.......In MY experience the best captains make a list of subjects to learn from a guidebook like a 30-40 year old Chapman's, the research newer concepts and ideas and STUDY, STUDY, STUDY! An alternative guide are subject lists in a licensing course or any source that describes everything from weather to boat handling/navigation to anchoring to....and the list has dozens of subjects. Heck, just TF provides enough info to start that list, just you have to go WAYYYYYYY beyond to cover each subject.

Being on the water is part of the mix, but being out there and not applying what you have learned and then reviewing is just a part of boating (fun part. Also being out there without knowing the thousands of things to know to observe while out there is a missed opportunity.

 

[psneeld]

FWIW...even if you not a paid captain, as a amateur skipper aboard a boat that had an accident, you you will be held to a higher standard of care than someone without a license.

I let mine 75 ton Ocean Operators license lapse when in law school. I doubt lawyers have become less aggressive over time...

This subject of higher standard has been debated often. The general consensus is no you are not as EVERY captain technically has the same requirements/standard of care on the water.

However, I have finally grown to believe after getting old and wiser, that USCG administrative review, civil law cases and criminal ones can all go in different directions (sometimes strangely so). So there is some merit in thinking the "higher standard" may come into play.

Here is one of many articles on the subject explaining .... Are Boaters with Coast Guard Licenses Held to a Higher Liability Standard? – The Log.

I say go all in...know so much and have so much experience that you can justify your actions (except gross negligence) to look like you performed the only actions possible. Happened to me once in a civil trial where the lawyers gave up trying to trip up my NAVRULES knowledge and gave up. My boss/ins co. wound up being the only defendants to win their case of multiple defendants.

 

[Kapn]

To second what others have said, the test material doesn't necessarily correspond to the knowledge a trawler owner cruising around needs to know. But it does provide a great baseline for some of the navigation that is now provided by apps and electronics as well as nav rules.
I've had a license for over 25 years now and I've yet to see anyone ever get "Held to a higher standard". I've heard from plenty of people who didn't get a license or didn't complete a renewal that there is danger in having one because of liability. Heck, one guy I know can run a boat anywhere, fix anything that floats, and navigate with a paper chart and compass but he insists that a license would somehow put him under the jail. I think it's fear of failing the test.
Annapolis School of Seamanship and Chapmans are both excellent. Other places in Lauderdale would do the trick as well as getting STCW and other training.

 

[oguidry]

Join the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Become Boat Crew certified. Then become Coxswain certified.

 

[psneeld]

And after the USCGAUX quals, there still is tons more to know about boating.

At some point you do have to start to narrow down what kind of boating is in your near future and concentrate on the subjects most commonly encountered for that topic.

 

[TBill36]

For me, rules of the road, common sense, and common curtesy will get you pretty far to enjoyable and safe boating. The number one thing that I've seen cause issues is anchoring. Maybe there is a course out there that that covers it, but I'm unaware of it.

My cruising is South Florida and Bahamas, so it's pretty easy because you can usually see the bottom and pick your spots. I've still seen plenty of boats washed up on the shore.

There's one area I frequent that has a marl bottom with about 6 inches of sand over top of it. You can let out as much scope as you have, back down on it to think you're set, and still have it drag bouncing along the bottom when the wind or current shifts.

From what I remember in the captain's course, increasing scope is supposed to fix everything.

 

[psneeld]

Weather and cruising/anchoring go hand in hand. Eyeballing a chart and evaluating the local weather (not TV weather) can dramatically help when searching for an anchorage.

Rules of the road. There is a great topic. In the basic Boating Sfatey Course I taught, that chapter starts off by saying the average boater doesn't need to knowall the rules, but be familiar with them. The captains courses go beyond that but usually, many forget enough of them to show. Just read any forum thread on rules and see posters not knowing them, but also posters not understanding the complete set of rules, their interactions and how/which ones to apply when.

Do you need anything more than some basic boating skills and maybe a required Boating Safety Course to cruise? No. People prove it all the time....till they don't. YouTube is full of them. The assistance towers and USCG logs thousands of boater prblems every year.

So the prudent boater does keep researching and studying every topic of boating they might encounter. The basics get you started, advanced skills keep you going.

 

[David Hope]

Thanks for the input, I'm revising my plan on getting the 6-Pack license. I have a lot more to learn before I start down that path. For now I'm going the focus on the advise I've been given by studying the area's I'm planning of visiting and become familiar with the charts and wind/current conditions, etc. I've not logged much time on a trawler and will be seeking advise thru the forum from time to time. I've always avoided forums as it appears every body has an opinion and theirs is the only way to proceed. Pleasantly surprised on the quality of feedback on the Trawler forum.

 

[SIBERNUT]

There are many courses given by the Sail & Power Sqdns for just the cost of the material. Choose what you want/need all the way up to celestial nav.
And good fellowship too.

 

[Shrew]

Checking in to getting my 6-pack captains license and looking for any advise. Programs, on-line schools, etc. I may not ever use it with paying passengers, etc but it will help me be a better/safer captain of my boat.

You will likely start with an OPUV license. This will not make you a 'better' boater. The license process neither requires, nor offers helm time. It will not make you a 'safer' boater. Either you are or are not inherently safe to begin with. (Ask yourself, are you a reckless vehicle driver??).

What the course will do is teach you the Col Regs and prepare you to pass the exam.

Just learn the Col Regs.

 

[psneeld]

Helm time is important....... but you still have to apply a lot of research or have an extremely knowledgeable and competent teacher along the way.

All my life of being around the water and teaching boating/licensing skills....people with decades of experience still had no clue about so many things or were just repeating the same old mistakes.

 

[jgwinks]

And even the COLREGS section is geared to the exam to a point. I taught the classes for several different schools for over 20 years. There are always trick questions on the exams, for example giving a scenario where you are crossing a towing vessel and it is to port of you. After learning that a towing vessel could be considered RAM and would then be stand on, one would assume this is the case in the scenario. But, the question does not say the towing vessel is showing lights or shapes for RAM, so it is not RAM or stand on. In fact, in the entire 10,000 question USCG database, there is not one question where the towing vessel IS RAM. In the real world, he would put up the shapes or lights and claim privilege.

 

[dannc]

Thanks for the input, I'm revising my plan on getting the 6-Pack license. I have a lot more to learn before I start down that path. For now I'm going the focus on the advise I've been given by studying the area's I'm planning of visiting and become familiar with the charts and wind/current conditions, etc. I've not logged much time on a trawler and will be seeking advise thru the forum from time to time. I've always avoided forums as it appears every body has an opinion and theirs is the only way to proceed. Pleasantly surprised on the quality of feedback on the Trawler forum.

The thought we had was to go to one of the schools, pass the test, but don't get the license. We want the knowledge but the administrative steps to get and keep the license are not worth the trouble. Then there is the risk of being held to a higher standard.

 

[jgwinks]

I taught the OUPV/Master courses for a couple different schools for over 20 years. You could just go to the CG exam center and take the exams, but almost no one coming up from a pleasure boat background passes them. (I did, but that's another story). Almost everyone taking the course passes. So if you want a license, by all means take a course. But as said earlier, the courses do teach to the test and make sure you know your way around the trick questions. They don't necessarily make you a better or safer boater. Unless you intend to operate boats for hire and therefore need a license, I'd seek the training elsewhere. USCG Auxiliary is a good choice, I was a member and boat crew Coxswain and the training did make me a better boater. And it helped me a lot when I later went for my credential.

 

[Hippocampus]

As stated above many holding the 6pk have little experience beyond runnin a launch or taxi service. Some have limited experience doing deliveries. Some do not remain well versed in rule of road, safety, fire, health and tech. Have hired captains. Only to use as crew not master. My experience has been mixed t the point I do not consider a 6pk. as a meaningful credential but rather consider experience, word of mouth and referrals as more important. I view the 6pk differently than tickets not limited to 25m and prefer ocean with higher tonnage. I have much more respect for Yachtmaster ocean as it includes a practical and at least some level of meaningful experience. I have noted even with the higher orders of US captain running a ship is an entirely different skill set than running a boat. So when hiring still view experience doing similar transits on similar boats as important. I did spend the time at Mass Maritime early on when my experience was more limited. It helped with insurance. Once I had more experience it did nothing to my premium and nothing to restrictions on what I was allowed to do. I never worked commercially so saw no reason to maintain a ticket. Think unless you need it for work wouldn’t bother.
For learning I’ve learned from crewing for others, from my crew, from fellow cruisers and from independent study more than from courses done. And I keep learning from those sources. Believe there’s ten ways to do anything on a boat and nine of them are wrong. So hope to continue to learn. Have done courses with the bride. What was taught sometimes wasn’t best practice. When teacher confronted they agreed the curriculum they taught from was not consistent to current best practice. The exceptions are safety at sea and weather courses. Both are highly recommended.

 

[alormaria]

I got my ticket through "Sea School" and followed it up with their renewal classes every 5 years.
I highly recommend them.

 

[psneeld]

And even the COLREGS section is geared to the exam to a point. I taught the classes for several different schools for over 20 years. There are always trick questions on the exams, for example giving a scenario where you are crossing a towing vessel and it is to port of you. After learning that a towing vessel could be considered RAM and would then be stand on, one would assume this is the case in the scenario. But, the question does not say the towing vessel is showing lights or shapes for RAM, so it is not RAM or stand on. In fact, in the entire 10,000 question USCG database, there is not one question where the towing vessel IS RAM. In the real world, he would put up the shapes or lights and claim privilege.

A friend of mine took the licensing course (had been a commercial fisherman his whole life and now in his late 40s). One smart and diligent SOB...he practiced all 10,000 questions and came to me with 6-8 that had the incorrect answer, no answer or multiple answers in the multiple choices. So for the rest of my courses I had the dilemma of how to mark them when scoring the tests.

That guy was also the one who caught on a tide table (NOAA) exercise that one of the areas near Norfolk has a nearly opposing tide compared to most of the surrounding area. It baffled us as none of the usual geography features or depths or anything else seemed significant enough to explain the large discrepancy.

Loved that guy.... came to work for the same company I was in and he mostly went for driving the tugs. Unfortunately died one winter I snowbirded to Florida. The boss was cool and renamed one of the small tugs after him.