Automated systems for cruising boats

[DavidM]

Reading Peter's post today about dealing with his water maker got me thinking- Why do we use complicated automated systems on our boats?

Peter's watermaker is a perfect example. It has automatic backflush and high TDS diversion capabilities. As he notes in his posting, the TDS diversion isn't really necessary as everyone knows to divert the first slug of water as it is always high in TDS. The auto backflush is just a time saver, but at the expense of complexity. In the RV world more than boats is the automatic generator start feature. Shouldn't a sophisticated cruiser/RVer watch his battery charge level and start the generator to recharge when it is necessary.

Shouldn't we rig our boats to be as simple as possible and if they take a few minutes of time each day to monitor and deal with the systems, so what? Are we so pressed for time while cruising that we have to automate anything we can?

And sometimes automation takes more time to fix than it ever would save if it worked. I suspect Peter's automatic backflush is an example of this.

In the 30 or so years I have been cruising (off and on of course) I have seen this forum make a subtle shift from installing and managing simple cruising boat systems, to more expensive and automated systems.

Do these automated systems really enhance the cruising experience? In my opinion, no. Simpler is better and always cheaper.

David

 

[psneeld]

It all depends if automation can be manually overridden.

Automation does 2 things usually in my mind, makes life easier, and sometimes helps the forgetful or takes over when you can't respond/react fast enough.

I agree on a watermaker where more complexity over what is already there is ONLY OK if the malfunctions are easily overridden.

2 very simple forms of automation that can be overridden if you are around but many value them as indispensable is the lowly bilge pump float switch and fixed fire extinguisher systems.

So to me it's only systems that would end or delay a cruise that I would really consider as overkill, but like a broken dishwasher....usually one can always do the dishes by hand.

But I do like the overall topic as I purposely chose a RV that kept "systems" to a minimum of complication without sacrificing my minimal standard of luxury.

 

[twistedtree]

Automation is great when it works, and is overly complex and unnecessary when it doesn't work. So the question really is "does it work?"


I really like automation, provided it works. And I mean that it works every time, all the time, no matter what. Sure, everything will break eventually and need to be fixed, but our satisfaction with "automation" is directly died to it's reliability.


I really like my auto-flush watermaker, and wouldn't have one that doesn't have the feature. It lets me leave the watermaker for extended periods of time without worry, and without having to pickle it. It has worked flawlessly.


I also really like automatic pressure control, flow monitoring, TDS monitoring, and diversion in my watermaker, and wouldn't have one without it. Making water is a single push of a button at the helm. Otherwise I would have to climb back into the laz, work various valves to control pressure, monitor flow, guess at TDS, and hopefully produce good water. Thanks, but no thanks. I accept that TDS sensors can be problematic given their inherently harsh environment, so I carry a spare. So far all this has worked flawlessly. Also, all this is integrated into a single packed watermaker, so zero incremental installation work, or opportunity to mess things up.


My generator stop/start is automated, and I love it. I can come and go from the boat as I please whether plugged into shore power or not, sleep when I want, and not have to worry about the batteries. If they get low, the generator starts and fills them back up. And if I am on shore power and the power fails, the inverters keep everything running, and if the batteries get too low, the generator starts and fills them back up again. I love it. I have to pay MUCH less attention to power management than before, and have backup in case of a power failure.



Now if all this didn't work well, or reliably, I'd probably be the first person to pitch it overboard. So I don't think automation is bad, but I do think unreliable stuff sucks, particularly on a boat where support, parts, and repair are much more difficult, if not impossible.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Nothing different from house automation.
Do we really need "smart" light bulbs, connected switches etc.
Some may find this useful, some not.

L

 

[mvweebles]

I've struggled with this very topic throughout my refit. AGS (auto gen restart) and watermaker are two excellent examples.

One of my very best friends owns a fairly new Horizon PowerCat, a multi-million dollar boat. Quite beautiful. His watermaker is push-button and is super cool. Until the motherboard took a crap. The board alone was over $6k. Install wasn't too bad because it really is plug-and-play. So that's the trade-off - convenience comes with a price, not just in money but in repairability.

Like TT's boat, my friend's PC has a sizeable power requirement that will drain the batteries within a handful of hours if unplugged or generator isn't running. So he has a twin engine boat but is a slave to having the generator running. When the powerhead on the generator failed a couple months ago, his boat unexpectedly shut-down due to low-voltage.

Now, it's not really fair to compare a tiny 36-foot boat that barely registers 6-figures of value with boats >20x in value. But I will say I have really tried to keep complexity within the range of my mechanical abilities. TT is a whiz with electronics and electronics - his tolerance for repairs is leaps and bounds above mine so additional complexity doesn't inhibit him. It would me because I'd be crippled if anything went wrong. I'm still licking my wounds as I diagnosed my charging issue.

In addition to Watermaker and Generator AGS, another example of complexity vs convenience is common rail diesels, though there really isn't a choice these days. These engines are fantastic pieces of engineering and are incredibly robust and fuel efficient in many ways, at least compared to my Perkins with it's 75-year old technology. But they are susceptible to electrical failure - not just ECU, but sensors and a compromised wire or plug can take down an engine. I'm just not good enough to cruise with anything more complex than an old Diesel, but I do marvel at the newer ones.

TT's post summarizes how helpful automation can be. In the case of common rail diesels, the fuel savings mean my range would increase 15% without adding a drop of fuel. I'd love that capability ---- but it's beyond my skillset if an issue comes up.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you have to look in the mirror and make a determination of whether the automation is worth the benefits, and if you'd be comfortable with either living without it or doing/assisting-with the repair if needed. I know my friend with the PowerCat is incredibly frustrated with the automated features, as I would be. It's an individual choice.

Peter