Bilge pump better than Rule?

[Seevee]

Shopping for a new bilge pump with at least 1100 gph, prefer higher, internal float switch. Replacing a 27SA Rule.


While the Rule isn't horrible, seems like I replace one every year and looking for a more reliable pump.


Ideas?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I started using Johnson pumps. Some here have also recommended Whale pumps.

I would stay away from pumps that have an automatic flood built into the pump.

 

[Simi 60]

I've used Rule, Johnson and TMC.

TMC are better value, over here at least, imho
Lasts as long or longer for half the price

And I to would stay away from internal float.

 

[sean9c]

I asked a friend who is a salesman for a big marine supplier in the area. He said that they've had good luck with Johnson. Had nothing good to say about Whale

 

[fgarriso]

Johnson pumps web site.

https://www.spxflow.com/products/br...-pump-marine&subtypes=submersible-bilge-pumps

 

[twistedtree]

I started using Johnson pumps. Some here have also recommended Whale pumps.

I would stay away from pumps that have an automatic flood built into the pump.

Ditto for me on all points. Rule have proven themselves to be junk.

 

[rslifkin]

I haven't had many issues with short lifespans on Rule pumps, but I've never used the ones with internal floats, sensors, timers, etc. Just the plain manual ones with external floats.



The smallest pumps I've got aboard are currently the Whale Supersub units (with the built in water sensor). I did have one that within a few months ran slowly in auto mode (but fine in manual), then burned out. The replacement has been fine, and the other, older one of the same pump on board has been working fine for a few years now. They don't make anything I'd use for a large bilge pump though.



I haven't tried any of the Johnson pumps personally (yet), but they have a good reputation. The champion of pumps is my forward bilge pump. Mind you, it only gets wet or runs when I test it (it's not in an area of the bilge that ever gets wet normally). But that original installation, 36 year old Mayfair submersible pump still works perfectly fine. Johnson owns the remains of Mayfair FWIW.

 

[Mako]

I've never enjoyed a long life with Rule float switches (-A-matic and such). Not sure how a float switch, which is actually never used, with nothing but some mercury in it, can ever go bad, but they do.

Hmm, I assume mercury, maybe they don't. Haven't checked - you guys know?

 

[tiltrider1]

Ditto for me on all points. Rule have proven themselves to be junk.

In my experience I have found all the rule pumps from 1100 gph down to be worthless. I have had better luck with the 2000 gph and up pumps but I still
test frequently to be safe. I won’t use the basic Rule float switch. Rule does make a heavy duty float switch and I have had acceptable luck with it.

What I am really saying is I haven’t found the correct answer for quality and cost when it comes to bilge pumps.


However, I just saw some one turn a Marco wash down pump into a bilge pump. It’s an idea that merits some thought.

 

[Seevee]

I started using Johnson pumps. Some here have also recommended Whale pumps.

I would stay away from pumps that have an automatic flood built into the pump.

Why would you stay away from the the built in float? In my situation, I don't have a choice, but I've had more trouble with the flapper valves anyway, however, easy to test.

 

[ksanders]

I use the johnson pumps, not because they are better.

I use them because they are really easy to change. No screws to remove in a wet bilge, just remove the motor with a clip, and connect the new wires.

 

[ranger58sb]

Rule pumps --without integral switches -- seem to have worked OK for us.

Rule mercury float switches used to work fine. Once mercury went south, so did reliability.

We switched to Ultra switches -- due to responses to "what's best?" query here and elsewhere (there's a thread on it...).

-Chris

 

[LarryM]

For the past dozen or more years, I have found the combination of Rule Gold Series pumps paired with USS Ultra Pumpswitch Junior or Senior switches to be the most reliable combination. The Gold Series pumps are guaranteed for 5 years, and are available in 1,500, 2,000 and 3,700 GPH. The Junior switches are guaranteed for 5 years and the Senior switches for 10 years. I've never experienced any sort of failure with either. Neither are inexpensive, but then again, neither are our boats. I'm also quite demanding when it comes to redundancy, the installation, wiring and monitoring.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Why would you stay away from the the built in float? In my situation, I don't have a choice, but I've had more trouble with the flapper valves anyway, however, easy to test.

I have had the opposite experience. Dang near sank my dinghy cause the internal float failed, again.


BTW, great informative post....

 

[Comodave]

I put Johnson pumps in our last boat. They are supposed to be better. Ball bearings vs sleeve bearings. I have Rule in our current boat. One I just put in is a Rule because Johnson didn’t make one that would fit with the right size discharge.

 

[bgillroy]

Seevee, look into Whale diaphragm pumps. We no longer have gray water float pump boxes for or rule type bilge pumps. Bullet proof pumps with auto switches, no issues since 2017.

 

[Mako]

Remember when Rule used to fabricate two 2,000 pumps in tandem and they called it a "4,000", well it seems like putting two in series on your own vessel would solve the issue of boats switching across to 48VDC house banks. Easy enough to carry one half-size as a spare as well, in case of the very rare event that one goes bad.

 

[joezzz]

better pump

Look at Johnson pumps.
I have a 1928 sailboat and even though the ole girl is tight,, doesn't leak I have (2) 1950 GPH pumps.
I found them to be

....price competitive
....the pumps weight significantly more (bigger motors)
....can be rebuilt and repairable

....have a built in check valve at the pump to prevent back flow
.....which doesn't clog and is removable during the winter to prevent ice from accumulating in the hose

offers a bracket to attach their auto on bilge switch.


Overall it is a far superior pump, available in various sizes and confirgurations

 

[PaulB.]

Self priming?

Hi Larry. The only thoughts that I would add:
1) Are the pumps self priming? On my sailboat the small Attwood with built in switch would not self prime from a dry bilge. I switched to a diaphragm pump (suction hose, and float switch, only in the bilge)l. Winterizing this winter I found the small Rule in the 400's forward bilge would not self prime. I had a heck of a time in it's tight space to shake it enough to get it started. Being fortunate to have and like dry bilges it is an irritant++ to think they might not work when needed.
2) A potential issue that may arise with mercury based float switches is the mercury getting shaken and breaking into small "balls" too small to close the contact. I was going to replace my "broken" one when told to just lift it all the way up and wiggle. The throw away lasted for decades? ( I had it for 28 years) and at least one duplicate fix.

 

[rslifkin]

Are the pumps self priming? On my sailboat the small Attwood with built in switch would not self prime from a dry bilge. I switched to a diaphragm pump (suction hose, and float switch, only in the bilge)l. Winterizing this winter I found the small Rule in the 400's forward bilge would not self prime. I had a heck of a time in it's tight space to shake it enough to get it started. Being fortunate to have and like dry bilges it is an irritant++ to think they might not work when needed.

If the pumps in question have those stupid rubber check valve things in the output hose, remove them. The reduced backflow is nice, but they frequently cause priming problems just like you described. Without the check valve, the centrifugal pumps prime just fine.

 

[joezzz]

Johnson pump, self priming

I have had 2 johnson pumps in my boat for over 10 years. Never a problem.
As I winter store my boat in the water I have not had an issue.
Johnson pumps does recommend removing the check valve if being used in the winter. Pick up Johnson pump and then a Jabsco. You will see the significant difference in their weights. Better motor, repairable.............

 

[grandbanksbayfield]

Rule With External Switch!

Have always used Rules, 1500 or 2000, but find that the hinged float switch gets dirty, does not rise up like it should, and cannot be trusted. Now I have a rule with a Johnson water-sensing switch and it is a great combo. It is best to have the principal pump that saves your boat from sinking up somewhat from the lowest point in the bilge so it does not get much use. Then have a smaller one at the very bottom that keeps the sump dry, even if it is a hand pump that you use regularly. Grand Banks, like my 32, were rigged that way.