Camano sea handling

[South of Heaven]

Guys, I've had the Camano for almost a week now and love her! But I need some help on her handling and seakeeping traits. Looking for some insight , not someone bashing the hull design......

I noticed that she rolled a lot on a quartering sea and big following sea. We were on the flybridge and took a big wave on the port side and I was very nervous to say the least. After that we came down and captained the boat from the lower helm!

So I'm aware of the different weight distribution things; balancing the fuel ,water tanks and people etc. This instance wasn't a balance issue, it was because of the quartering seas (i think).

So what should i do?? Should I be steering into a wave if I see it coming on my quarter? I know the Camanos like to have their bow up to give a better ride in rough seas but I didn't wanna increase the speed then because I felt that slower was safer in big seas. Its a catch 22!

What about following seas?

I've got so much to learn but Im very excited. I'm doing the last leg of my trip on Friday and will be bringing her to my home port of Boston (about 50 nm trip).

 

[MiltonP]

Can you describe the conditions and results a bit more? Are we talking 5-6 foot rollers? Were you pushed around big time or did she just lean over more than you expected? I doubt I will experience anything like that in my Camano until I leave the Chesapeake in a few years but would be good to know what you experienced. Only seen one video in rough seas. Appeared to bang hard quite a bit but only hard on the crew, the boat seemed to take it well.

 

[rwidman]

First of all, in rough conditions, go below to drive. I see you did that, do it in the future.

Remember, you have what is essentially a 28' boat with a 10.5' beam. This is not the QE II and sometimes it's best to stay in port.

So how to handle heavy beam seas? Tack. Take an angle to the seas for a few minutes, then take the opposite angle for a few minutes. You are on the same course but zigzagging across it.

When doing this, it is very important to time your turn so you don't take a wave broadside.

I suspect you can get a more complete description with diagrams on the Internet.

 

[ksanders]

First step with following or quartering seas is to make sure your trim tabs are all the way up. If your trim tabs are down it can help the sea push your boat around.

An other trick with large following seas is to anticipate Vs react to the seas.
For example your autopilot can only react to the yaw forces by applying rudder.

But You can anticipate what is going to happen, and steer so that the wave hits more squarely on the aft, prior to it hitting. Then you can straighten out and go a little bit on your planned bearing.

This method is allot of work as you will be moving the helm wheel pretty quickly, and it will get tiring, but it works.

Other than that, make more conservative weather decsions. You have a cool boat, but it is what it is. I have always liked the the Camanos but every boat, and every crew has a comfort level for sea state.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Wide square sterned and hard chined boats Are at a disadvantage having a snap roll. Rounded bilge boats don't need to respond instantly to the shape of the water and their roll is less dangerous. As in slow so a person has much more time to react. And it's usually more comfortable.

The best boats in lumpy to rough water have rounded or pointy sterns. The more a boat's stern looks like the bow the better sea boat. Many other variables apply though.

 

[David Hughes]

I also think it will take active driving of the boat to anticipate and have her in the best orientation for each swell. She is relatively short, and relatively flat-bottomed, so rolling will be a fact of life. You can only reduce it somewhat, not eliminate it. And as stated above, the boat is not likely in danger at all-- only crew comfort is.

 

[South of Heaven]

Can you describe the conditions and results a bit more? Are we talking 5-6 foot rollers? Were you pushed around big time or did she just lean over more than you expected? I doubt I will experience anything like that in my Camano until I leave the Chesapeake in a few years but would be good to know what you experienced. Only seen one video in rough seas. Appeared to bang hard quite a bit but only hard on the crew, the boat seemed to take it well.

The wind was behind us (10-15 knots) and we were in a following sea. I would estimate it at 3-5 feet but who knows really. That seemed okay but I still decided to throttle back a lot when we did get pushed off course a bit.We were probably traveling at 6-8 knots at that point. So whenever we would get pushed off we also took a wake off the port side. Some were bad and rolled us a lot but we didnt feel unsafe. Then another hit us and we rolled VERY hard to starboard. Not fun. We went downstairs and then throttled back some more and continued on. Spirits were not shaken but we acquired more respect for the sea. The scary part was that the conditions didnt seem dangerous until we were in it! No time to prepare

 

[South of Heaven]

First of all, in rough conditions, go below to drive. I see you did that, do it in the future.

Remember, you have what is essentially a 28' boat with a 10.5' beam. This is not the QE II and sometimes it's best to stay in port.

So how to handle heavy beam seas? Tack. Take an angle to the seas for a few minutes, then take the opposite angle for a few minutes. You are on the same course but zigzagging across it.

When doing this, it is very important to time your turn so you don't take a wave broadside.

I suspect you can get a more complete description with diagrams on the Internet.

Thanks Wes. Yes, definitely not the QE 2 ! Lol

 

[South of Heaven]

Thanks everyone

 

[rwidman]

The wind was behind us (10-15 knots) and we were in a following sea. I would estimate it at 3-5 feet but who knows really. That seemed okay but I still decided to throttle back a lot when we did get pushed off course a bit.We were probably traveling at 6-8 knots at that point. So whenever we would get pushed off we also took a wake off the port side. Some were bad and rolled us a lot but we didnt feel unsafe. Then another hit us and we rolled VERY hard to starboard. Not fun. We went downstairs and then throttled back some more and continued on. Spirits were not shaken but we acquired more respect for the sea. The scary part was that the conditions didnt seem dangerous until we were in it! No time to prepare

I'll give you another hint: Face into the waves and slow down before you climb down that ladder.

We once were at a marina and planning to stay because of a bad weather forecast. We woke up and it was a beautiful day and the water was calm so we changed our plans and headed out. Everything was fine for an hour or to until the river took a 90 degree turn and the wind picked up. We took one wave so hard the cooler on the floor overturned and opened spilling sodas and ice all over the place.

I was hanging on to the wheel for balance while my wife was trying to catch the rolling soda bottles and put them back in the cooler. The next morning there was water in the bilge and I though I had a leak until my wife reminded me about the cooler.

You will learn what you can and cannot handle.

 

[Steve]

Remember: It is better to be at the dock wishing to be out on the water than to be out on the water wishing to be at the dock.

 

[Nomad Willy]

South of Heavan,
If you find the Camano more of a handful in chalenging conditions you may consider removing thr FB. Bob Cofer did that on his GB32 and is pleased w the resilts. The Camano's FB is very large for a 31' boat so an overall increase in performance may be substantial. Looks like the visability from the wheelhouse should be good to excellent?

But it looks like you're just basically looking for tips on how to steer in rough going. You're getting some of that. I may add that sometimes it's better to go faster with a light square sterned boat to have better control.

The Camano is an efficient boat and sheding a lot of weight would make her even more efficient. I'm sure the C31 running light would perhaps be the most efficient production trawler there is. I can't think of a better candidate.

 

[porman]

South, everything Wesk said is true. We owned our Camano for 9 years and experienced all kinds of rough water, including water completely over the flybridge. The boat took it better than we did. Nomad Willy, Camano made a version without the flybridge, called a Gnome. They didn't sell many of them, but I still see a few around occasionaly.

 

[Al]

While we don't have a hard chine on our Marben 28', we are a SD hull which is about equal at the 7-8 knot range. Having said this, we had the same disposition with our boat on purchase. It would scare you with a following or stern quarter sea in the 2-3 foot range. Our cure, which addressed the total issue of being too light, was to add 1400# of lead ingots placed on the center line, fore/aft and on each side of the engine stringers. The end result is a solid center riding hull that has the waves on the beam riding under the boat and the boat remaining in the vertical with a soft limited roll. On the aft/quarter ride, while the boat will yaw as flat stern boats tend to do, it is no longer a sharp yaw, more a gentle roll as the added weight eliminates the power of the waves to overpower the stern.
We were fortunate to locate 50# ingots that resemble gold bars in appearance. Easy to place in available spaces.
Note: the boat originally came with 1500# of lead placed in the keel. This was a construction norm.
Al-Ketchikan

 

[Nomad Willy]

porman,
Forgot about the Gnome. Given that there are probably fg parts that will finish off the boat w the fb removed and it will probably be easier to take the fb off too.
Also performance differences should be well documented.

 

[South of Heaven]

Thanks again guys. This forum is awesome. Some of my new marina neighbors told me to "pump my brakes", which I am definitely doing. I'll need to learn a lot and feel the boat in many conditions.....All of my previous experience is with smaller outboard boats. No comparison there at all.

Al: Your lead weight idea has me intrigued however. But you're in a totally different hull. I've already got my water and fuel tanks separated on either sides of the engine.

 

[Conrad]

If you're doing a lot of wheel spinning, a great help can be a suicide knob. We've had them on our last two boats and can't imagine being without them.

 

[BruceK]

... Camano made a version without the flybridge, called a Gnome. They didn't sell many of them, but I still see a few around occasionally.

Gnome is an interesting name, what did they call the FB version?

 

[Conrad]

Troll.

(The Camano FB version, not an accusation!)

 

[Al]

Thanks again guys.

Al: Your lead weight idea has me intrigued however. But you're in a totally different hull. I've already got my water and fuel tanks separated on either sides of the engine.

Well yes, but as I stated, in the slower notch of 7-8 knots the activity in the water may not be all that different. If it comes though, here is a snap of the hull. [It may be the full complement of photos, if so, sorry, sort through and you will find the one with a full view of the aft bottom design.

1978 Marben Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser Title

We placed the majority of the ingots on the center line over the keel running under the engine. The remainder about 100# were to each side of the stringers. Our fuel and water 90 gallons and 48 gallons respective, are tward ship directly under the cabin's aft bulkhead.

study your available space, you might be surprised at the compactness of ingots into space not used for anything that is low in the hull.

Really like the Camano and as you are able to see, if the full range of photos appears, that I'd like to think our l978 boat is a likeness to the Camano in intent and utilization. For sure in comfort compatibility.

http://albin.boats.com/listing/gall...iser/113648551?r=113648551&entityid=113648551

[sister boat, not ours]
Cheers- Al-Ketchikan

 

[Greg S]

I'm not sure slowing down was the right answer. You gain dynamic stability with the increased speed and the Troll's hull form allows an easy, linear speed increase, maybe take it to 10-12 knts. Speed would depend on the speed the waves are overtaking you. You can slow the waves overtaking speed low enough that it is gentle or eliminate them altogether by staying between peaks, maybe even going faster than the waves. You may have to continually adjust your throttle and will certainly have to be consistently turning the wheel. DO NOT do this from the FB, it will be far to dynamic of a ride up there. Up there you are at the far end of a pendulum, swinging from extreme to extreme.

The Troll came with a SS destroyer wheel, really easy to mount a wheel spinner on it (suicide knob). Go to an agricultural tractor supply for a good selection. Once you have one, you'll never want to drive without one, especially docking. Hint, count your turns off centre then back again so you can keep track of rudder position. Mine was just under 3 turns each way, 5 7/8 lock to lock. Auto pilot can't anticipate and start making steering correction before they are needed, in following seas and quartering seas you are better steering manually in my humble opinion.

 

[Nomad Willy]

South of heaven wrote;
"Al: Your lead weight idea has me intrigued however. But you're in a totally different hull. I've already got my water and fuel tanks separated on either sides of the engine."

Not a totally different hull. Just about the same length and aspect ratio. And one can actually benefit from ballasting a light boat seaworthiness wise ands to dampen roll putting the ballast up under the gunwales is better than in the bilges. But one should make sure adding ballast weight is a good thing. Usually it's not though.

And generally speaking faster steering is a good thing. Three turns L to L is good. Six is very slow. before you make any changes I'd go to 3 T L TO L. That will probably solve your'e stern seas "problem" or "discomforts". I agree w Greg that the AP should be axed in anything but the mildest stern seas.

 

[rwidman]

Out of over 260 Camanos sold, three or four were Gnomes. The rest were Trolls (with a flybridge). At least one of the Gnomes was converted to a Troll by ordering and installing a factory flybridge (I've seen it). The flybridge was (and is) a major selling point of the Camano and probably the only logical reason for not having it is being physically unable to climb the ladder.

The flybridge isn't heavy enough to seriously affect the weight distribution of the boat unless people are on it. We already know to go below in rough seas. Removing the fly bridge would seriously hurt the resale value of the boat, not to mention the enjoyment of the boat.

As for the steering, six turns lock to lock is how the boat was designed and it seems to suit the rest of the owners pretty well. I've never (on the owner's forum) seen anyone ask about reducing it. Nor have I ever seen anyone asking about adding ballast. There's already a pretty heavy engine mounted low in the boat.

Again, the key is, you have a 28' boat, not the QE II and you have to watch the weather just like any other small boat.

I have never felt the need for a "suicide knob", especially when docking. It's not a center console with an outboard, it's an inboard trawler with a bow thruster. If you're rapidly spinning the wheel, you're doing something wrong.

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