Centrifugal Oil Filter

[oscar]

The boat I will likely get into in the next two years will probably have two large diesels.... we're talking 30 gallons of oil in the DD-8V71 for instance.

Does anyone use centrifugal oil filters? Either continuous installed on the engine, or free standing to clean the oil on regular intervals?

Lubricity far outlives the capacity of the oil to contain contaminants, and cleaning the oil can increase change intervals....

Thanks.

 

[twistedtree]

Wow, 30 gal. Is that per engine, or for two?

I’m far from an oil expert but I gather one of the things you need to monitor via sample testing for extended oil changes is the TBN number in the oil. I think it’s the additive package level, but I’m sure others will be able to saw with more conviction.

I can also say that my new Scania engine has a factory centrifuge for the oil, and the engine has a 500hr change interval with no special oil requirement beyond standard oil specs.

 

[FF]

OTR trucks have this system , Google .


They operate when the engine is running.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Gulf Coast Bypass setup maybe?

 

[sunchaser]

The boat I will likely get into in the next two years will probably have two large diesels.... we're talking 30 gallons of oil in the DD-8V71 for instance.

Does anyone use centrifugal oil filters? Either continuous installed on the engine, or free standing to clean the oil on regular intervals?

Lubricity far outlives the capacity of the oil to contain contaminants, and cleaning the oil can increase change intervals....

Thanks.

Oil change volumes and frequency required for older 2 stroke DDs is one of many reasons industrial users bailed out on them decades ago, even before emissions hit. For a 100 annual hours per year marine use not so much an issue. Just work, cost and suitable onboard storage.

My brother has 2 16V92s in his vessel. Oil changes are a interesting event.

 

[smitty477]

The boat I will likely get into in the next two years will probably have two large diesels.... we're talking 30 gallons of oil in the DD-8V71 for instance.

Does anyone use centrifugal oil filters? Either continuous installed on the engine, or free standing to clean the oil on regular intervals?

Lubricity far outlives the capacity of the oil to contain contaminants, and cleaning the oil can increase change intervals....

Thanks.

I have owned boats where centrifugal oil filters were supplied stock on the engines - they really worked well and were easy to service.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

no matter what you have, sample,sample, sample! It is a baseline for whats going on deep in your engine. cheap insurance

 

[Ski in NC]

Most marine 871 that I worked on were about 7gal each. But pans can vary. Some big pans out there.

Pressure driven centrifuges do work, but most I've seen were engineered into the engine package. Adding one on you should consider the gpm required to run it and make sure the engine system can handle it.

Running a 871 in trawler service is very easy on the oil. Not sure I would bother with a centrifugal, just sample at say 200hr and set change interval from that. Unless you do a LOT of hours, probably not cost effective.

 

[Irish Rambler]

We run Scania trucks in our family business and all their engines have centrifugal oil cleaning systems fitted I can vouch for their effectiveness with the long life of their engines (in excess of a million miles).
If you know anyone that has a Scania engine go along when they're changing the oil and just see how much crud the centrifuge removes, you'll be very shocked.

 

[MacPhid]

Our Hino EH700 engines have on board centrifugal pressure driven filters, they definitely work as witnessed by the what I presume is carbon that I clean off the housing at each oil change.

James

 

[Simi 60]

Does anyone use centrifugal oil filters? Either continuous installed on the engine, or free standing to clean the oil on regular intervals?
.

Lepke will be along in 5...4...3...

 

[Lepke]

I use a centrifuge on my Detroit 671s and generators. I plumbed in the pan drains to a gear pump that drains the oil to a heated holding tank before the centrifuge. I usually centrifuge oil at some convenient time at about 50 hours. Like after a run and the oil is hot. Generators are usually done separately because I don't run them as much anymore.

The slower the oil flows thru the centrifuge, the better it cleans. I can make near new oil. I pull test samples before draining, after centrifuging the test is wasted because it will show new oil. Centrifuge removes debris and water. I haven't changed oil since 2011, just add make up oil. The centrifuge I use was made by these guys: high speed WVO centrifuges, Algae centrifuge, Oil Centrifuge, oil transfer pumps and drum heaters. - US Filtermaxx A lot of people use them for cleaning homemade bio diesel. If you were to get a load of bad fuel, you could clean it with their centrifuge.
There is a smaller single engine sized centrifuge out there called something like spinner something. It doesn't spin as fast, uses oil pressure to spin, so doesn't clean as well.

 

[twistedtree]

But doesn't a DD leak and/or burn enough oil to effectively have a continuous oil change taking place?

 

[ben2go]

The boat I will likely get into in the next two years will probably have two large diesels.... we're talking 30 gallons of oil in the DD-8V71 for instance.

Does anyone use centrifugal oil filters? Either continuous installed on the engine, or free standing to clean the oil on regular intervals?

Lubricity far outlives the capacity of the oil to contain contaminants, and cleaning the oil can increase change intervals....

Thanks.

Do lots of homework on these. There can be some issues. A good place to start is here I think. https://www.dieselcraft.com/

 

[caltexflanc]

I don't know where the 30 gallon number came from, and am fascinated to find out. Our 8v92Ti's took seven gallons each. With a reversible Oberdorfer gear pump, oil changes were no big deal. In our case, a couple or three changes a year, I could never get the cost, time and hassle of additional filtration to pencil out.

 

[Taras]

On twin 3306 cats plus both generators, we run Puradyn external oil filtration. They work really well and highly recommend them. They were installed on the motors after 500 hours of use. Motors are now at 5500 hours and the motors hardly smoke at all during cold start. Also, not much oil is burned by the motors. It appears it’s working to extend the oil intervals and to extend the life of the motors. I still change the oil about every 200 to 300 hours.
https://www.puradyn.com/

 

[oscar]

Thanks for all the info....

And I sit corrected. 15G of oil for BOTH 8V71's........not each. LOL. Phew, that's gonna save me a lot of schlepping.

 

[Lepke]

But doesn't a DD leak and/or burn enough oil to effectively have a continuous oil change taking place?

A small price to pay for reliability.

 

[rgano]

My Navy salvage tug was equipped with four Cat D399s which engine has a 160-gal sumps. We ran two Sharples centrifuges, one for fuel and one for lube oil, 24/7 underway with the lube oil feed switched daily between whichever engines were on line. I do not have a need for such gear on my rec boats.

 

[caltexflanc]

But doesn't a DD leak and/or burn enough oil to effectively have a continuous oil change taking place?

I didn't find that to be the case with my DD's at all. I suppose if you never did any PM on them, it would be. As to would on some other types as well. I think the urban, or should I say dockside legends about them arose from that.

 

[FF]

"But doesn't a DD leak and/or burn enough oil to effectively have a continuous oil change taking place?"


ONLY after the first 20,000 to 30,000 hours !

 

[oscar]

I didn't find that to be the case with my DD's at all. I suppose if you never did any PM on them, it would be. As to would on some other types as well. I think the urban, or should I say dockside legends about them arose from that.

That and the fact that they are now at least 4 DECADES old. That's 90 years in human years. We're all gonna leak when we're that old. Anyways...... Yes, replacing a gasket now and then does wonders. I know several DD owners that have spotless bilges.

 

[sbman]

I use a centrifuge on my Detroit 671s and generators. I plumbed in the pan drains to a gear pump that drains the oil to a heated holding tank before the centrifuge. I usually centrifuge oil at some convenient time at about 50 hours. Like after a run and the oil is hot. Generators are usually done separately because I don't run them as much anymore.

The slower the oil flows thru the centrifuge, the better it cleans. I can make near new oil. I pull test samples before draining, after centrifuging the test is wasted because it will show new oil. Centrifuge removes debris and water. I haven't changed oil since 2011, just add make up oil. The centrifuge I use was made by these guys: high speed WVO centrifuges, Algae centrifuge, Oil Centrifuge, oil transfer pumps and drum heaters. - US Filtermaxx A lot of people use them for cleaning homemade bio diesel. If you were to get a load of bad fuel, you could clean it with their centrifuge.
There is a smaller single engine sized centrifuge out there called something like spinner something. It doesn't spin as fast, uses oil pressure to spin, so doesn't clean as well.

Lepke, Which model of theirs do you use?

 

[Steve DAntonio]

There's solid science behind centrifugal filtration, this articles covers centrifuges for fuel, but the concept is the same https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/PBB115CentrifugeFilters.pdf

An alternative, competing technology is bypass filtration, which uses a very fine filter to clean a percentage of the oil with each pass https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/...ltration-ProBoat144_ByPassFilter-FinalOpt.pdf Unlike a centrifuge, bypass filtration has no moving parts, but you do need to change filter elements, rather than simply clean them.

As Tanglewood pointed out, some engines are equipped with centrifugal filtration from the factory. Scania would not use this technology if it was not safe and effective.

The weak link in any external filtration, centrifuge or bypass, is the plumbing, a failure of which could lead to rapid loss of oil pressure. They must be plumbed with absolute attention to detail, using the most robust plumbing/hose components possible. I prefer swaged or compression style Parker/Aeroquip hoses and terminals for critical applications of this sort.

 

[catalinajack]

I've used bypass filtration on my truck diesel for 7,400 hours. Changing filters is quite easy. The by-pass filter is a 1-micron. The hose connections are of the type recommnded by Steve D. If I had sufficient room on board my boat I would install them and, like Lepke, never have to change oil (with testing).

There's solid science behind centrifugal filtration, this articles covers centrifuges for fuel, but the concept is the same https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/PBB115CentrifugeFilters.pdf

An alternative, competing technology is bypass filtration, which uses a very fine filter to clean a percentage of the oil with each pass https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/...ltration-ProBoat144_ByPassFilter-FinalOpt.pdf Unlike a centrifuge, bypass filtration has no moving parts, but you do need to change filter elements, rather than simply clean them.

As Tanglewood pointed out, some engines are equipped with centrifugal filtration from the factory. Scania would not use this technology if it was not safe and effective.

The weak link in any external filtration, centrifuge or bypass, is the plumbing, a failure of which could lead to rapid loss of oil pressure. They must be plumbed with absolute attention to detail, using the most robust plumbing/hose components possible. I prefer swaged or compression style Parker/Aeroquip hoses and terminals for critical applications of this sort.

 

[FF]

Bypass filtration gets over the of danger of not changing lube oil,( ruining out of the many required additives in new oil) , as the huge filters are discarded , new oil is added.

The centrifugal probably get the oil cleaner but must be tested for SCA and other needed additives.

Using both systems might solve the problem?


Installing a Murphy Switchgauge setup , with its auto secure system in operation would make sense on passages.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Regarding DD oil changes:

1. Gear driven reversible pumps permanently plumbed into the sumps are the way to go.

2. Buy oil in 5 gallon pails and keep two empty ones on hand. Once you empty one engine and then pour 7 1/2 gallons back in you have empties for the second engine.

3. DDs take special low ash 40 wt oil not always easy to find.

4. NAPA 75118 is designed for DDs and runs about $85 a pail before discounts. 10% for AAA card..... often others are available.

5. Twin Disc marine gears take the same oil and are changed every 1000hrs

6. DDs oil change interval is a low 100hrs.

7. NAPA oil filter is p/n 1970, you need two per engine for 12-71s. Ask for “pro-pack” filters, they come in plastic wrap not cardboard box and are $6 each cheaper.

 

[PM]

When we were kids and money was short and our cars were pretty much junky old oil burners we would buy what was called "reprocessed oil". It was about .25 a quart as opposed to a buck a quart for new oil. The reprocessed oil looked just like new oil. No sediment or color beyond the normal goldish oil color. It was all the same weight 10/10/30/40/50 or whatever. Perfect for old cars.

Wonder how they filtered or purified it? I have been told that drain oil will eventually settle out. It is more a matter of freeze/thaw cycles than of strictly time spent sitting. I have left drain oil sitting around for a number of years and it doesn't seem to be getting any more clean.

pete