Change electric stove, install gas stove

[Newtrawlerowner]

2003 MS 400 has an electric stove and grille in summer kitchen. Thinking of changing to gas. I know some 400s came with gas. Anybody done this conversion? I know I'll have to run a gas line. I'll find a certified marine mechanic to either advise or do that part.

 

[psneeld]

Not a Mainship, but I converted to a propane range top. Couldnt be happier.

 

[DavidM]

It should be quite doable, but a few considerations:

Propane locker- I think that the 400s which had propane had a locker in back of the flybridge seating area. It needs to drain overboard.

Solenoid- Install an electric solenoid valve (available in a package with regulator) and gauge at the propane tank. The solenoid valve is controlled by a switch near the stove.

Propane sniffer alarm- I have mixed feelings about these as the sensor produces false alarms after a year or so. Replacing the sensor periodically is the only solution. But it is the safer way to do it. There are even sniffers who are tied into the solenoid so it automatically shuts off whan propane is detected.

Gas routing- This will be a big of a PITA. Also make the hose continuous from the propane solenoid to the stove, ie no couplings.

David

 

[Woodland Hills]

Why not switch to electric induction? Cooks like gas, but the fuel is much easier to deal with.

 

[Newtrawlerowner]

It should be quite doable, but a few considerations:

Propane locker- I think that the 400s which had propane had a locker in back of the flybridge seating area. It needs to drain overboard.

Solenoid- Install an electric solenoid valve (available in a package with regulator) and gauge at the propane tank. The solenoid valve is controlled by a switch near the stove.

Propane sniffer alarm- I have mixed feelings about these as the sensor produces false alarms after a year or so. Replacing the sensor periodically is the only solution. But it is the safer way to do it. There are even sniffers who are tied into the solenoid so it automatically shuts off whan propane is detected.

Gas routing- This will be a big of a PITA. Also make the hose continuous from the propane solenoid to the stove, ie no couplings.

David

Great information. The 400 has a summer kitchen at the rear of the flybridge. I will add solenoid in locker and propane sensor in main salon. And if they are like a CO sensor they probably have a 5-7 year life. I'm removing headliner due to damage and replacing radar so running propane line will be easier.

 

[Pmcsurf1]

Go gas

 

[Curiosity]

I am considering also installing a gas range oven combination. Have wonder what brand is a good one. I am at a Marina with no power, so we are off the grid all the time. What brand are you looking at?

 

[rsn48]

Electric is good if you only do marina boating, or boating on the hook with a generator. If you enjoy the sounds of silence on the hook, gas is best. PNW boaters including coastal BC boaters who enjoy being on the hook a lot, tend to rely on gas. Anchoring and stern tying in Desolation Sound can often be tight so using a generator in God's country when silence is golden is the devil's work.

 

[rslifkin]

Electric is good if you only do marina boating, or boating on the hook with a generator. If you enjoy the sounds of silence on the hook, gas is best. PNW boaters including coastal BC boaters who enjoy being on the hook a lot, tend to rely on gas. Anchoring and stern tying in Desolation Sound can often be tight so using a generator in God's country when silence is golden is the devil's work.

Electric induction is also viable if you have a big enough boat to run it on solar and battery power. Smaller boats don't have that option as there's just not enough room for solar panels and batteries.

Personally, I don't find my electric stove inconvenient even when away from shore power. I'm going to need the generator at some point to make hot water for showers, so I just run it for 45 minutes to an hour to make dinner and let the water heater warm up. Once I've got the solar / inverter project done I can scrap the 30-ish minute morning generator run for coffee.

 

[OldDan1943]

Generator to make HW? Why not install a loop to the hot water tank and let the main engine make the hot water?

Converting to gas, get it done professional. Much safer.

 

[rslifkin]

Generator to make HW? Why not install a loop to the hot water tank and let the main engine make the hot water?

In my case, I've thought about it, but with how everything is placed, it would be tough to do without making the lines hard to bleed or having them in the way of crawling around the engine room. And I'd need a new water heater, the current one doesn't have a heat exchanger. Plus, that only helps if we've moved the boat that day. If we stay 2 nights in the same place without power, I'll still need the generator for hot water.

 

[rsn48]

Electric induction is also viable if you have a big enough boat to run it on solar and battery power. Smaller boats don't have that option as there's just not enough room for solar panels and batteries.

Personally, I don't find my electric stove inconvenient even when away from shore power. I'm going to need the generator at some point to make hot water for showers, so I just run it for 45 minutes to an hour to make dinner and let the water heater warm up. Once I've got the solar / inverter project done I can scrap the 30-ish minute morning generator run for coffee.

My Espar is hooked up to heat water, I just leave the fans off so the boat doesn't heat up in the summer.

I have Efoy, solar and of course boat generator. And I do use electric appliances while on the hook. But I only run these appliances for a short time. For example, the toaster will only get about 5 to 10 minutes a day of use, but I bought a cheap one, not because I am cheap, but because cheap ones have less wattage. My current toaster runs about 800 watts. Same with my microwave, its .7 cubic feet and runs on 940 watts (more when you factor in the power to make power) but again I use it for only 4 minutes a day.

I have two strategies, one on the hook and one at the marina. On the hook, gas cooking including BBQ and hot water for coffee, as well as the appliances mentioned above.

At the marina I use my convection oven and induction plate to use shore power and conserve propane. I can roast a chicken on the BBQ on the hook and roast it in the convection oven at the marina.

 

[rslifkin]

My Espar is hooked up to heat water, I just leave the fans off so the boat doesn't heat up in the summer.

I'm assuming it's a diesel Espar with separate tank?

 

[OldDan1943]

I have two strategies, one on the hook and one at the marina. On the hook, gas cooking including BBQ and hot water for coffee, as well as the appliances mentioned above.

At the marina I use my convection oven and induction plate to use shore power and conserve propane. I can roast a chicken on the BBQ on the hook and roast it in the convection oven at the marina.

What is the brand name of the induction stove top, 120vt?, how many KW per "burner", how maybe KW for the convection oven?

 

[rsn48]

I'm assuming it's a diesel Espar with separate tank?

Yes, seperate tank, only 3 gallons; one of the things I did wrong. Knowing what I know now, I should have had something like a ten gallon tank for diesel storage. I often spend days on the boat at the marina on 15 amp service so I can't run a high watt electrical heater. I find I go through a little over a gallon and a half a day of fuel.

With running charger, heating fans for Espar, refrigerator, I can't have a high wattage heater going or I pop the breaker on the pier. So far I'm up to 7 resets on the pier breaker for my boat.

I also have a Dickenson propane heater, 9000 series one, and I will sometimes turn it on as well, especially if I've been away from the boat for a time and it is cold. So I run everything I can to heat the boat up quickly. I also have a 750 watt kicker heater built into the galley, so initially I might have all three heaters going - Espar, propane, ac heater.

This is the induction single cooking plate I use, I can only use it when I am at a 30 amp service receptible. Although occasional if I am at a 15 amp marina plug in, the Victron will take excess electrical needs from the batteries.

https://www.homehardware.ca/en/1800-watt-smooth-top-single-burner-induction-cooker/p/3834374

The one big negative against the induction cooker linked above is the the LED lights are very difficult to see in bright sunlight. I've been known to put a towel over my head to read the numbers.

 

[BigTime]

I just finished "reconverting" my boat to propane. In the 2 years I have owned the boat I could not make myself like running my genset to cook on the hook, although I really liked that Princess electric stove at the dock , plus it was a really nice install with a countertop cover that I consider necessary for my small galley to function when not using the cooktop. The boat had signs of it's original Taiwanese propane install which was just a bare tank shoved inside the brow with access from the upper steering station and a copper line to the galley with no sign of a solenoid valve.
I completed my propane install with a Trident propane locker that holds 2 twenty pound tanks, properly vented , solenoid inside locker and a Trident thermoplastic line to the galley a month ago and just spent the weekend on the hook for the first time . I also had installed a Victron 3000w inverter since my previous trip out.

IT WAS SO NICE ANCHORING, COOKING DINNER WHILE WATCHING THE TELEVISION NEWS AND MAKING MY MORNING COFFEE BEFORE A HOT SHOWER WITHOUT EVER STARTING THE GENERATOR.

 

[Curiosity]

Electric to propane

I just finished "reconverting" my boat to propane. In the 2 years I have owned the boat I could not make myself like running my genset to cook on the hook, although I really liked that Princess electric stove at the dock , plus it was a really nice install with a countertop cover that I consider necessary for my small galley to function when not using the cooktop. The boat had signs of it's original Taiwanese propane install which was just a bare tank shoved inside the brow with access from the upper steering station and a copper line to the galley with no sign of a solenoid valve.
I completed my propane install with a Trident propane locker that holds 2 twenty pound tanks, properly vented , solenoid inside locker and a Trident thermoplastic line to the galley a month ago and just spent the weekend on the hook for the first time . I also had installed a Victron 3000w inverter since my previous trip out.

IT WAS SO NICE ANCHORING, COOKING DINNER WHILE WATCHING THE TELEVISION NEWS AND MAKING MY MORNING COFFEE BEFORE A HOT SHOWER WITHOUT EVER STARTING THE GENERATOR.

Sounds like just what I need to do.
Tell me what you used for a stove and how much solar you have to make this
Happen??

 

[BigTime]

Sounds like just what I need to do.
Tell me what you used for a stove and how much solar you have to make this
Happen??

Sorry but no solar , fossil fuel only. House bank 6 GC2 agm, 660ah. We rarely anchor longer than 2 days without moving. Balmar 120amp alternator on main engine seems to restore bank with a light days run. Hot water from heat exchanger will last 24hrs minimum. 2nd day at anchor generator run for hot water & 120amp charger from Victron.
As far as stove my first choice was Dickinson but would not fit my opening very well plus cost $250 for shipping. Second choice was Force 10 which I could buy from West Marine at high retail with no shipping expense, their NA Standard would fit my existing opening well but I was not sure how I could cover it for counter usage. Then I came across a RV stove branded " Greystone" that FIT my opening perfectly , had a really nice hinged tempered glass top and cost $499 delivered. How could I go wrong to try one ? So far I really like it.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Electric induction is also viable if you have a big enough boat to run it on solar and battery power. Smaller boats don't have that option as there's just not enough room for solar panels and batteries.

I use electric induction when cruising in my C-Dory 16. That's a pretty small boat. I do have a solar panel, but I used induction before that was installed. My house battery is a single Group 21 and it was enough to cook for 2 people for 10 days (my longest double cruise on the 16). We did cruise everyday, so I don't know if solar would have kept up if we had anchored for a few days.

I think that one of the misconceptions about induction is that it uses the same amount of electricity as resistance burners. Induction is freaky fast because it heats the pot directly. Not a flame licking at the pot or a restrictive coil that touches the pot in a few places. The low heat settings can turn on for a second, off for 4 seconds, etc., and not a single calorie, amp, watt, whatever the metric, wasted. Easy to clean cook top with nothing burning even if it spills over.

I just bought an inductive burner to replace the propane on my trawler. It will require me to replace the entire counter top and get a pure sine wave inverter for a proper install. Still, I can't wait to get rid of the propane issues. Way back when, I thought that propane was a slight improvement over my old alcohol stove, but that's a low bar.

 

[boatpoker]

2003 MS 400 has an electric stove and grille in summer kitchen. Thinking of changing to gas. I know some 400s came with gas. Anybody done this conversion? I know I'll have to run a gas line. I'll find a certified marine mechanic to either advise or do that part.

I've done it three times. You might get some tips here....
Safe Boat Propane Installations

If you email me ... boatpoker@gmail.com I'll respond with pdf's of the propane standards

 

[Andiamo2018]

Our boat was converted from propane to a Princess inductive cooktop. Cooking on it isn't great but when we 'went up the delta' where the boat lived for a few decades it was easier to understand why it was converted. No where near as much heat inside from the inductive cooktop.

But we do most of our boating in the cooler climes of the bay. It's on the list to put a propane stove and oven back in...after making pull out drawers under the bed to make easier use of all that storage.

And you can do the work at least as safe if not safer than most professionals. I've worked in boat yards and worked on boats that had a lot of work done in boat yards. Owners often do dumb things on their own but if you do your research you will be happy with what you do

 

[Sleeping Bear]

Most insurance policies specify it has to be done professionally.

 

[boatpoker]

Most insurance policies specify it has to be done professionally.

I've done thousands of surveys over the last 30 years and never heard that before.

 

[Derek]

Electric breaker

We also had to flip a propane breaker on the panel of our Mainship 400 FWIW.
THE PROPANE BOX WAS PRICEY. One issue we also had waas that any wind at all made grilling take forever. I ended up buying disposable aluminum turkey pans and put it over the meat like a cover with a weight on it. Funny thing is I was gonna convert to an electric option but sold the boat.

 

[Twinboat]

Gas Stove

Be sure to use a Marine stove with thermocouplings on the burners.

With the thermocouplings on the burners, if a flame blows out, the gas flow is stopped and you don't get a propane buildup down below.

RV stoves are cheaper, but don't have that feature.

 

[Simi 60]

Electric induction is also viable if you have a big enough boat to run it on solar and battery power. Smaller boats don't have that option as there's just not enough room for solar panels and batteries.


.

There are several discussions RE this on cruisers forum
Plenty there with less solar than us claim they can do it, but I suspect they are giving their expensive lithium banks a severe touch up doing it as there is no solar at night.

We have a larger solar array (2.5Kw ) than most and with 880ah @ 24v a sizable battery bank, certainly more than most sailing vessels and there is no way that we will be going induction any time soon, certainly not while the gas is working for us.
Gas is cheap, proven and if done properly, safe.

 

[Simi 60]

Be sure to use a Marine stove with thermocouplings on the burners.

With the thermocouplings on the burners, if a flame blows out, the gas flow is stopped and you don't get a propane buildup down below.

RV stoves are cheaper, but don't have that feature.

Over here they do
Pretty sure home gas stoves do as well - you can buy replacement home stove thermocouples.

 

[CarlF]

I have several friends who have gone the other way and ripped out propane systems in favor of induction. They both installed these Kenyon stoves

https://www.cookwithkenyon.com/product-category/cooktops/induction/

The induction use much less power than an old style electric stove. The smaller stoves top out at 1800 watts and most of the time you aren't cooking at full power. There's no startup surge like a microwave so a 2000 watt inverter could handle it. If you plan to cook for hours you'll need the genset on but many boats have battery banks that can easily handle a normal dinner prep.

The other advantage is that one burner on full power is much hotter than propane. A full pot of pasta water will boil in 1/3rd the time of propane.

 

[Simi 60]

^^^ But its $1200 for 2 burners
And no oven
Where's the logic behind ripping out perfectly good gas and replacing it with a lesser product at a higher price?
What do they bake bread in, pizzas, roast etc?

 

[OldDan1943]

Hmmm, 2 small observations, neither of which is a deal killer.
No pot rails, gotta design them or buy some that will work from a 3rd party
No protection for the glass top when not in use.