Check those hose clamps!

[High Wire]

We were heading offshore for a fishing trip on a friend’s boat yesterday. After over an hour running one of the guys says “Hey where’s that water coming from?” There was a foot square wet spot on the carpet between the engine boxes where our lunch coolers sit. Our mechanic friend stuck his finger in and tasted it “That’s salt!” All stop. We pulled up the hatch between the engine boxes and found six inches of water on the false floor between the engines. Auto bilge pump not running. For some reason the water wasn’t making it down to the bilge pumps. We pulled up the hatch in the false floor and all of the water poured down to the pumps.
What we found was the single hose clamp at the inlet to the heat exchanger broke and the hose came half way off the 1 1/2” hx inlet barb. The clamp broke on the exact bottom of the clamp diameter. Good thing we weren’t all sleeping. The drain hole to the pumps is only 3/8”. Way too small to handle a seawater line leak or to fill the area around the float switch before water filled up around it.
Check and/or replace those seawater hose clamps.

 

[Simi 60]

Check and/or replace those seawater hose clamps.

That's not what I'd consider a hose clamp

But he also needs to check his limber holes and his bilge pumps
And, I'd suggest a lot of other things.

 

[rgano]

"A" clamp? Not two clamps on that vital connection?

 

[kthoennes]

I had the same first thought -- "a" clamp? Just one? Yikes.

Funny coincidence, just last weekend I checked over all the hose clamps on my boat just as a random maintenance thing. All looked good except there was one corroded hose clamp on the holding tank vent line (replaced). And the little spring clips on the drain hoses on the plastic coolant overflow bottles on both engines were rusty, so I replaced them both. The little 1/4" vinyl drain lines are configured to run any overflow beyond the bottles into the bilge so it doesn't spray the engine -- although if you're overflowing your coolant bottles that badly you've got other, much more serious problems. Anyway, of course the old tubes were dried out and stiff and decades old so they broke to pieces when I changed the spring clamps, so off to NAPA to get replacement hose.

Hoses, clamps -- have to be diligent about maintenance. I learned my lesson last season, I ran my hand along a rubber fuel line and felt a really bad chafing spot where it turned a corner coming over the engine block, worn all the way down to the threads or fibers. Taught me a lesson to feel all the hoses all the way around wherever I possibly could and not just glance at the visible portions.

 

[High Wire]

"A" clamp? Not two clamps on that vital connection?

Yes. Caterpillar original configuration. We’re going to look tomorrow morning to see if there’s room for 2nd clamps along the flowpath.

 

[psneeld]

https://www.boats.com/how-to/hose-clamps-surveyors-and-the-abyc/

"This is an unfortunate misunderstanding in the industry. The truth is neither the US Coast Guard nor the ABYC require double clamps. In fact, the USCG under title 33, which covers recreational boats, does not even discuss thru-hull fittings, meaning they have absolutely no requirements in this area.

However, boats built in Europe will have double clamps because the ISO Standard that addresses such issues requires them.

As for the ABYC position, I can tell you that its regulation H-27 Standard, Sea Cocks, Thru- Hull Fittings and Drain Plugs, is tried and true. The single clamp requirement has never created any problems in the field—as long as proper, all stainless steel clamps are used. There have been cases where the use of automotive grade stainless band, cadmium plated screw mechanism clamps has caused problems. H-27 is quite specific in requiring clamps made entirely of a stainless steel that is 300 series grade or better.

The thing you need to be concerned with in this case is that the surveyor has made a very basic error, which to my mind opens up the door to questioning his or her overall competency. My advice is to get another surveyor to check out your new boat."

 

[Comodave]

Go through and replace any non 316 S/S clamps. I like ABA or AWAB clamps. They are all 316, have rolled edges and non perforated screw threads. And check the bottom of all clamps regularly since that is where they usually rust through.

 

[Eli27]

New to me 1979 Albin 36. Replaced every hose on engine for raw water and coolant. Replaced everything raw water goes through on engine,,, EVERYTHING!

Replaces all oil cooler lines for engine and gear.

Next haulout,,, seacocks and complete exhaust which will be in a few weeks. Yes, still on the hard but this marina doesn't allow you to work on your exterior. Sucks because the down time I had waiting on some parts I could of finished everything under the waterline.

Some marinas are cool and some just plain suck.

 

[TBill36]

I would be reluctant to get on your friends boat again if I were you. Bilge pump not working, no high water alarm, potential high risk hoses not double clamped. Oh, and had to have another friend decide to investigate and find the problem.

 

[psneeld]

I would be reluctant to get on your friends boat again if I were you. Bilge pump not working, no high water alarm, potential high risk hoses not double clamped. Oh, and had to have another friend decide to investigate and find the problem.

Sounds like most of my friends boats...few are as OCD as many here on TF.

I probably missed out on thousands of diagnosing and repair dollars through the years.... Too soft on friends I guess....

 

[twistedtree]

This got me wondering about ABYC's silence on this topic. H27 is about thruhulls and such, but doesn't say much about the hoses that connect to them. P1 covers exhaust systems, and it DOES call for double clamped exhaust hoses.


ABYC covers fresh water plumbing, and bilge pumps, but I actually don't see anything that covers general raw water plumbing, let alone the areas where it is below the waterline. That seems like a pretty big gap.

 

[psneeld]

This got me wondering about ABYC's silence on this topic. H27 is about thruhulls and such, but doesn't say much about the hoses that connect to them. P1 covers exhaust systems, and it DOES call for double clamped exhaust hoses.


ABYC covers fresh water plumbing, and bilge pumps, but I actually don't see anything that covers general raw water plumbing, let alone the areas where it is below the waterline. That seems like a pretty big gap.

It might be because some systems are under suction, some under pressure.

As the link I posted said...no issues in the field with single clamps. studies have shown that often double clamping actually is worse.

In all the hoses I have taken off in bilges, many are so stuck on after being clamped, despite the clamp being broken, the hose was a bitc* to take off.

I can see why maybe the USCG and ABYC thinks double clamping is over rated in SOME applications even below the waterline.

 

[twistedtree]

It might be because some systems are under suction, some under pressure.

As the link I posted said...no issues in the field with single clamps. studies have shown that often double clamping actually is worse.

In all the hoses I have taken off in bilges, many are so stuck on after being clamped, despite the clamp being broken, the hose was a bitc* to take off.

I can see why maybe the USCG and ABYC thinks double clamping is over rated in SOME applications even below the waterline.

I have always seen the value in double clamping for redundancy in case one clamp rusts through and breaks, as happened to the OP. It's not about doing a better job stopping leaks, at least not until one clamp breaks. Regardless, I think double clamping raw water below the water line is a good practice.


That said, you mention that it's not good sometimes, and I agree. Not all hose barbs have enough length to get two clamps on with both fully supported by the barb. In those cases you need to either live with one clamp, or swap for a longer barb.

 

[TBill36]

Anyone know why there aren't plastic hose clamps? Have to admit I've used pull ties on some small vacuum lines. Seams the rust problem would go away and they would last as long before they got brittle. Even large industrial type pull ties seem like they would work in most applications, although I'm sure not approved ABYC.

 

[psneeld]

There are plastic hose clamps and have been for years. I think they ARE used in highly corrosive environments. Maybe plastics from years ago weren't trusted enough or they can be knocked from the side and accidently opened.

Doubt the kind pictured will ever be approved unless that accidental unlocking is overcome.

Hope they do...might be a good reason to finally buy a 3D printer....

 

[Comodave]

How would a plastic clamp get the tightening necessary to squeeze a hose tight?

 

[psneeld]

How would a plastic clamp get the tightening necessary to squeeze a hose tight?

Read up, you will find it interesting.

I have had several though the years and they will tighten as much as you need to tighten a steel clamp...but probably not a T-Bolt.

 

[Simi 60]

There are plastic hose clamps and have been for years. I think they ARE used in highly corrosive environments. ....

Go up to 69mm /2.7 inch on ebay

One example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ratchet-Cl...1-be03-4ad1-ac4f-6c936acc1dc2&redirect=mobile

 

[Comodave]

Read up, you will find it interesting.

I have had several though the years and they will tighten as much as you need to tighten a steel clamp...but probably not a T-Bolt.

Maybe. But do they deteriorate over time like some plastics do? S/S 316 does very well over time. Just wondering how plastic comparies.

 

[wkearney99]

Maybe. But do they deteriorate over time like some plastics do? S/S 316 does very well over time. Just wondering how plastic comparies.

UV being the biggest enemy, but I'd also wonder about how well the 'teeth' on those clamps holds up over time when exposed to the vibration from most engines. I'd think if there was anything that would be chemically reactive then it'd also be a big problem for gelcoat/fiberglass resins.

 

[Comodave]

Plastic clamps seem like a solution in search of a problem. 316S/S clamps work extremely well so why not just use them?

 

[psneeld]

Plastic ones are pretty easy to use and take off.

Haven't taken off in the boating world either through mistrust or something I haven't come across yet.

 

[Comodave]

What is difficult about a regular hose clamp? I just don’t see any real advantages.

 

[psneeld]

What is difficult about a regular hose clamp? I just don’t see any real advantages.

Ever use one?

 

[TBill36]

When I mentioned plastic earlier, I was really thinking pull ties that are good quality and sized for the application. They are easy to install and I'm pretty sure I've seen a tool that can get them tighter than just pulling on them, although you can get them pretty tight pulling with the right pliers. Pretty sure it's not an accepted method, just wondering why.

 

[Bmarler]

When I mentioned plastic earlier, I was really thinking pull ties that are good quality and sized for the application. They are easy to install and I'm pretty sure I've seen a tool that can get them tighter than just pulling on them, although you can get them pretty tight pulling with the right pliers. Pretty sure it's not an accepted method, just wondering why.

I have the tool you’re referring to. I’ve got two different sizes depending on the application. Both are adjustable, and tension then cut with one pull of the trigger. With the larger one, with decent size ties, I think you could come close to regular hose clamp tension. In fact, I’ve used it on some air fittings before. Don’t think I’d use this method on my raw water system though.

 

[heysteve]

Project Farm did some hose clamp testing. hose clamp testing I had no idea there were so many brands! Prices ranges from 20 cents (Meaxxna) to $8.75 (Mishimoto Gold) per clamp.

 

[Comodave]

Ever use one?

Yes, I have used countless hose clamps. Still don’t see anything wrong with them. What is so wrong with them?

 

[psneeld]

Geez...I meant the plastic ones.

I am not saying they are better, I was answering Tbill36's question..... "Anyone know why there aren't plastic hose clamps? "

Like most things they have their plusses and minuses.

 

[ABfish]

Replaced all of my a/c raw water in take lines recently. Needed 20 hose clamps total in order to double clamp all connections with new clamps.

West Marine clamps were $8.99 and $9.99 each for the sizes that I needed.

Tried the local Ace Hardware marine supply and bought 316 SS clamps, 10 to a box, for about $3 each.

Is there any justification for a $10 hose clamp? Not a rhetorical question, just wondering if there is a particular design that is superior in performance or corrosion resistance.