Choosing electronics...

[Bruce B]

For the past 20 plus years we have used Raytheon/Raymarine gear on our sailboats. We have had mixed results with Raymarine so for this American Tug 395, we will consider something different.
The names Garmin, Simrad and Furuno keep coming up.
My gut says Furuno, it is highest on my list. Several people I trust say Garmin, it is currently my third choice, not entirely sure why but I am unexited by Garmin...
Currently in second place is the Simrad lineup. Glass screens, the remains of Robertson autopilots and interesting looking radar systems are all in its favor.

I have been told that Furuno is no longer building superior equipment. I'm not sure what that means exactly... I wonder if I am running into people who are selling or make more money selling competitive products.

Anyone here have any insight or know of a place to turn for help?
Bruce

 

[No Mast]

I saw Garmins lineup at a show recently and I was very impressed by their product line. I'd try to find a boat show and see them all running in one place. It was very nice to compare how they all work.

 

[Gordon J]

Personally, I doubt there are significant differences among the units at a given price point. I have used Ray Marine for the past 12 years on my sailboat. My new, to me, trawler came with a Garmin unit. After cruising the ICW for three weeks, I can say that I prefer the Ray Marine unit over the Garmin. Both chart plotter's are of approximately the same vintage.

Perhaps I prefer the Ray Marine because that is what I spent so much time with. I suspect that is the case when you ask others their opinion as well.

Gordon

 

[psneeld]

You could have had mixed results with any of them over the last 20 years.

I worked as a marine electronics installer for 3 years and have been running most of the brands for the last 16 years as a commercial captain.

No clear cut winner anymore.....really never was. All have strengths and weaknesses...especially with certain models or product lines. No different than many other type products.

Pick what fits your budget and preferences. Now and where the product line will fit your boat as you upgrade.

 

[ranger58sb]

I have Furuno and find all that stuff to be excellent.


That said, my first recommendation would be more about whatever kind of user interface you're comfortable with. Not just touch/non-touch, but the whole GUI paradigm.


The second recommendation is that you source almost everything from the same manufacturer. That should reduce the potential for finger-pointing at "the other guys" is something on the network doesn't function as expected... and it also often means the GUI paradigm is similar on each of the components.


A third is about back-up systems, not just plotting software (for instance) but also the charts. For example, we chose a laptop application that is exactly the same as our plotter software... and uses the same (NOAA) charts. The existence of that laptop application influenced by choice of plotter. Then we also chose a couple tablet apps, one that uses the same raster charts, the other that uses different vector charts (C-Map) from what we have on the plotter and laptop. On-purpose redundancy, but with on-purpose similarities, and at the same time with on-purpose complementary data.


Of course you can/should also get more actual user comments on the various brands/components before deciding, but you might have to recognize that many will only be able to comment on what they have personal experience with... so that's not necessarily immediately comparative info.


-Chris

 

[danderer]

Another approach well worth considering:

Adventures of Tanglewood: Electronics 2.0

 

[Aquabelle]

I have Furuno NavNet 3D gear (plotter, radar, gps sensors, etc). If I were doing it all over today, I would go Garmin. Their current/latest range seems superior to me and significantly cheaper than Furuno.

But I would also carefully evaluate NOT going with a traditional MFD-based solution: I'd consider a computer-based system like MaxSea Time Zero and install a high-def monitor or 2. Updates to both software and hardware much easier.

 

[O C Diver]

I saw Garmins lineup at a show recently and I was very impressed by their product line. I'd try to find a boat show and see them all running in one place. It was very nice to compare how they all work.

This is very good advice!

When I bought my trawler, it had fairly new Garmin electronics on it. Was planning to replace it all with Furuno which is what I have on my charter boat. My electronics guy was pushing me toward Simrad. After a 1,200 mile trip up the ICW and the boat show, decided to add some more Garmin and upgrade the radar antenna. Just didn't see enough meaningful difference to pick one over the other for my intended use.

Look at the different manufacturers' offerings based on YOUR intended use.

Ted

 

[No Mast]

But I would also carefully evaluate NOT going with a traditional MFD-based solution: I'd consider a computer-based system like MaxSea Time Zero and install a high-def monitor or 2. Updates to both software and hardware much easier.

I can't help the feeling that this is more prone to hardware issues than the traditional route over the long term. Don't know if the feeling is justified, but can't get past it in our own long search for upgrades.

 

[Bruce B]

I have Furuno NavNet 3D gear (plotter, radar, gps sensors, etc). If I were doing it all over today, I would go Garmin. Their current/latest range seems superior to me and significantly cheaper than Furuno.

But I would also carefully evaluate NOT going with a traditional MFD-based solution: I'd consider a computer-based system like MaxSea Time Zero and install a high-def monitor or 2. Updates to both software and hardware much easier.

I understand the appeal of running a pc based system but I think I will pass on that one. I have been a Windows user for 20 years now and although I appreciate everything it has allowed, I am simply not interested in introducing that wildcard to my boat. I can just picture the thing initiating a reboot as the fog descends or something like that.

I understand that manufacturers use some form of operating system in all of these units but the scaled down versions seem to run more cleanly...

Thanks for the input though, you did get me thinking!
Bruce

 

[ranger58sb]

But I would also carefully evaluate NOT going with a traditional MFD-based solution: I'd consider a computer-based system like MaxSea Time Zero and install a high-def monitor or 2. Updates to both software and hardware much easier.

We only have an external (flying bridge) helm, and in full sunlight I can't always see the display on our very decent quality laptop.

And then there are times when loose stuff on the bridge can go flying, as when we get sideways to a ship's wake or when we're coping with beam seas -- the "big end" of the pendulum, don'cha know -- so a laptop on the our bridge might not fare very well...

Laptop down below, feeding bolted-down monitor above? Naw... too complicated...

I've done two software updates to the NN3D MFD in about 7 years. One to MaxSea in that same period. Not a particularly onerous chore, and in fact the MaxSea update on the computers was the slightly more difficult one. I needed tech support from MaxSea in France to solve that. (Something to do with the SQL server stuff already installed on our versions of Windows 7.) Still... it was just a quick question, easily sorted, not difficult.

More periodic chart updates haven't been difficult: download (at home, on the broadband connection) and install. Copy to SD cards and carry those to the boat. Install on MFD. Install on laptop. Not a big deal.


Anyway, IMO, updates not a big deal. I'd expect that to be similar with all the other brands...

-Chris

 

[obthomas]

My Garmin stuff works flawlessly and I find the software programs to be very intuitive. I hardly ever have to refer to the manuals. I have chart plotters, radar, sonar, AIS, autopilot, and VHS all networked and almost all Garmin.

 

[Bruce B]

My Garmin stuff works flawlessly and I find the software programs to be very intuitive. I hardly ever have to refer to the manuals. I have chart plotters, radar, sonar, AIS, autopilot, and VHS all networked and almost all Garmin.

I have not heard a single complaint about Garmin...
Not sure why I am resisting this one. We have time so I am trying my best to be open minded!
Bruce

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BrB. Not sure about currently but in the past Garmin software has been proprietary and any upgrades/updates have only been available from Garmin. For a $$$ price, of course.

ANY system you do buy should be intuitive to you. We have very dated equipment but it works for us. Our "newest" units are Garmin 540S (GPS/sonar). I have found there is WAY too much information available and most features I have never used. Old school and stubborn I suppose...

 

[Bruce B]

Greetings,
Mr. BrB. Not sure about currently but in the past Garmin software has been proprietary and any upgrades/updates have only been available from Garmin. For a $$$ price, of course.

ANY system you do buy should be intuitive to you. We have very dated equipment but it works for us. Our "newest" units are Garmin 540S (GPS/sonar). I have found there is WAY too much information available and most features I have never used. Old school and stubborn I suppose...

Love the GIF! Sums up so much about me too...
Like any software package, there are layers and layers of features and capability built into most of these systems. I can't imagine anyone uses all of it!
We just want a reliable, easy to learn system that doesn't force us to go through 3 or 4 steps when you want to change your heading by 5 degrees...

I love the idea of the glass front packages sold by Simard and Furuno. Everything in the communication bus is available on those screens and they look easy to use.

I like shopping for boat gear, this should be fun!
Bruce

 

[Islanddreamer]

My boat has hardwired and outdated equipment that still works. Analog radar and an older Garmin with a small screen. Recently purchased Navionics software for the iPad, a Bad Elf Pro+ GPS receiver using bluetooth and am getting ready to buy the Furuno DRS4W wireless radar unit that also will play on the iPad and doesn't require wiring beyond power source.

Direct replacement on the original equipment would have been in the $10+ range for what was wanted in a chart plotter and radar, but the boat can be updated for less than $1400 - even if I decide to keep the old hardwired stuff as a backup. Money saved can be used elsewhere.

 

[CPseudonym]

I can't imagine anyone uses all of it!
Bruce

Head down to Dania Florida and take Oliver(member here with a 47 Nordy) shopping with you. He knows what everything does and why

Seriously though reading the link to Tanglewood's blog provided up thread would be worthwhile. Caveat emptor electronics do not necessarily talk or play well with each other even within brand families.

 

[Bruce B]

Head down to Dania Florida and take Oliver(member here with a 47 Nordy) shopping with you. He knows what everything does and why

Seriously though reading the link to Tanglewood's blog provided up thread would be worthwhile. Caveat emptor electronics do not necessarily talk or play well with each other even within brand families.

I saw the blog...
I'm sure there have been issues with this technology as it has been introduced!
We've experienced this kind of thing with our Raymarine gear (even within the family) when it was using the original Seatalk bus...

At least today you no longer have to remove components and send them in for updates!

Bruce

 

[Codger2]

Not sure about currently but in the past Garmin software has been proprietary and any upgrades/updates have only been available from Garmin. For a $$$ price, of course.

I just completed a complete replacement of all my electronics, top to bottom. After an exhaustive investigation of all the top brands and playing with all of them at West Marine, (Recommended) I went with Raymarine. The plotters are incredibly intuitive, the HD Color radrar is terrific and the fish finder (depth sounder) better than I expected. Especially the "Down Vision" that is on the Raymarine Es 128. In shallow water fishing, you can't beat it! The Es127 & 128 have WiFi and even other non Raymarine hardware like my Maretron Fuel management System communicates with the plotters seamlessly. All screens are "pinch" or "knob" to expand or reduce the graphics and I find myself using both with ease.

I agree with others that there is not a dime's worth of difference among the leaders but I found Furuno's radar to be the best but Raymarine's was better than Garmin & Simrad. Also, the raymarine A/P has a lot of neat features and is a breeze to use.

My decision boiled down as to what units were the most intuitive & Raymarine won going away!

 

[caltexflanc]

You should go around and play with the various models and makes and get the one whose interface and ergonomics fit you best. One thing I will say about Furuno is that their customer support and service is outstanding, many many years after the sale.

 

[dhays]

That said, my first recommendation would be more about whatever kind of user interface you're comfortable with. Not just touch/non-touch, but the whole GUI paradigm.

The second recommendation is that you source almost everything from the same manufacturer. That should reduce the potential for finger-pointing at "the other guys" is something on the network doesn't function as expected... and it also often means the GUI paradigm is similar on each of the components.

A third is about back-up systems, not just plotting software (for instance) but also the charts. For example, we chose a laptop application that is exactly the same as our plotter software... and uses the same (NOAA) charts. The existence of that laptop application influenced by choice of plotter. Then we also chose a couple tablet apps, one that uses the same raster charts, the other that uses different vector charts (C-Map) from what we have on the plotter and laptop. On-purpose redundancy, but with on-purpose similarities, and at the same time with on-purpose complementary data.

The above is excellent advice.

You are fortunate in that you have lots of experience with using plotters. I would try to identify what it is that you have used your plotters and electronics for. For me, I set waypoints, create routes, and then use the AP to follow those routes. I have a few routes that get used and refined a LOT. So for me, I would be looking for an interface that made that quick and intuitive. I have been using Raymarine plotters for 6 years now and my new boat is also Raymarine. I am used to it but there are a few things about the interface that bug me. If I was starting from scratch, I still might go with Raymarine again but I would definitely go with a touch screen interface.

So find a unit, and mess around with it for a bit, doing the things that you would do. Boat shows are a great idea.

The other issue that I think is important is being able to plan routes at home on a computer, then transfer those routes and waypoints to the plotter on your boat. There are all kinds of wireless systems that will do that, but even using an SD card is fine as long as it is easy and seamless. My current RM system is NOT easy and seamless, but it is 15 year old technology. While computer or tablet systems are fine, I really like a dedicated chart plotter.

Finally you are going to start out from scratch, here are a few ideas to consider based on my recent move from sail to power.

• Consider two plotter screens at your primary helm station. My sailboat didn't have it, my power boat does. The extra screen real estate is incredibly useful and is something that I never would have considered.
• The AT has better aft visibility than my boat, but still consider a camera aimed aft. You likely will be using the fly bridge more than I do in your part of the country, but the aft camera helps more than I could have imagined.
• I believe that all new Cummins engines come with a data feed that can be fed to a chart plotter. This will give all kinds of engine information that can be displayed on the chart plotter. This was never connected on my boat, and while it seems lazy, I have to lean forward to view my oil pressure and temperature gauges when driving the boat. Because of this, I find that they don't get included in my visual instrument scan. If that data was fed to to the plotter display, it would be part of that scan continuously.
• Wind speed and direction. My current boat doesn't have either of these and it drives me crazy. After 50 years of sailing I am so accustomed to wanting to know wind direction and speed. Sitting inside a pilothouse, it is hard to tell either. The wind direction and wind speed indicators on my sailboat were something that I always was scanning. The PO didn't care, but the new boat is significantly affected by wind and that information is helpful when maneuvering.
• Likewise is boat speed. I live in an area with significant tidal currents. Since I go slow most of the time, a 2-3 knot current makes a big difference. Again, the PO didn't care. He had the SOG that the gps gave him. I want to know both SOG and boat speed. That info when fed to the plotter and AP also make the AP more efficient and smooth. Speedos are problematic, they foul, they need calibrating periodically, etc... but I really wish I had one.
• AIS transponder. Get it. Not just an AIS receiver.

Just my $.02 on features that will end up costing another 15-20 boat bucks.

 

[drb1025]

The manufacturers' web sites and YouTube have instructional videos on many products. A good place to start without leaving the comfort of your boat.

 

[Pau Hana]

I'm on the Raymarine Pro Staff, so I am a bit biased, but I can say that the current generation of MFDs across the board are really, really, good. I love Furuno, as I used it in the Navy and am very familiar with the capabilities and complexity of Furuno gear.

My main challenge with Garmin is the proprietary charting system ($$) and costs for software upgrades if you're a Mac user without access to a PC. I think the Garmin units are pretty slick overall.

As Walt (post #19) stated, the current RM gear is simply outstanding. The gear is plug n play (including FLIR cameras), and very intuitive to use. Further, RM offers free chart and software upgrades, and great support.

Agreed that the best thing to do would be to go to a local chandlery or a friend's boat and push the buttons and see what works best for you.

 

[Codger2]

I'm on the Raymarine Pro Staff, so I am a bit biased, but I can say that the current generation of MFDs across the board are really, really, good.

I have had Raymarine, Northstar & Furuno gear in the past. Probably the NorthStar was the most intuitive but as Peter mentioned, the new RM electronics is fantastic! (Probably the result of Flir acquiring RM.) Each plotter )Es127 & 128) can display 10 IP cameras!
Think about that...you can go nuts with digital monitoring!

 

[Bruce B]

...

• Consider two plotter screens at your primary helm station. My sailboat didn't have it, my power boat does. The extra screen real estate is incredibly useful and is something that I never would have considered.
• The AT has better aft visibility than my boat, but still consider a camera aimed aft. You likely will be using the fly bridge more than I do in your part of the country, but the aft camera helps more than I could have imagined.
• I believe that all new Cummins engines come with a data feed that can be fed to a chart plotter. This will give all kinds of engine information that can be displayed on the chart plotter. This was never connected on my boat, and while it seems lazy, I have to lean forward to view my oil pressure and temperature gauges when driving the boat. Because of this, I find that they don't get included in my visual instrument scan. If that data was fed to to the plotter display, it would be part of that scan continuously.
• Wind speed and direction. My current boat doesn't have either of these and it drives me crazy. After 50 years of sailing I am so accustomed to wanting to know wind direction and speed. Sitting inside a pilothouse, it is hard to tell either. The wind direction and wind speed indicators on my sailboat were something that I always was scanning. The PO didn't care, but the new boat is significantly affected by wind and that information is helpful when maneuvering.
• Likewise is boat speed. I live in an area with significant tidal currents. Since I go slow most of the time, a 2-3 knot current makes a big difference. Again, the PO didn't care. He had the SOG that the gps gave him. I want to know both SOG and boat speed. That info when fed to the plotter and AP also make the AP more efficient and smooth. Speedos are problematic, they foul, they need calibrating periodically, etc... but I really wish I had one.
• AIS transponder. Get it. Not just an AIS receiver.

Just my $.02 on features that will end up costing another 15-20 boat bucks.

Dave,
We are on board with all of this! Two screens, AIS. Engine info, Wind, depth, speed, all of it! Then add a third screen in the Flybridge, a pilot, VHF, FLIR etc.,etc... It is going to get expensive but hopefully I will not be replacing it all for awhile...
Bruce

 

[Bruce B]

The manufacturers' web sites and YouTube have instructional videos on many products. A good place to start without leaving the comfort of your boat.

What a resource YouTube can be! You do at least get some idea of the function of the various systems...
Not exactly the same as hands on but very helpful non the less.
Bruce

 

[Drake]

When we bought our boat in late 2014, we were faced with deciding on every piece of electronic geat at once. I did some basic research on the manufacturers' websites justto figure out what questions to ask, then found the closest major West Marine I could find. In my case, it was Ft. Lauderdale. We have four within a few miles of our boat, but they don't compare with the FLL store.

So, we flew to FLL and spent most of a day in the store talking to the experts and seeing every piece of equipment hands on. It might seem like a lot of time and expense (which it was) but we learned more in one day than we could have in weeks of research. The sales people's depth of knowledge was amazing. (Tip: go midweek, late morning. Less customer traffic)

We decided on Garmin for everything except autopilot (Simrad) and VHFs (Icom). I love the system. Very intuitive and integrates seamlessly.

 

[psneeld]

My Raymarine plotter was bought with a deal where I got every chart from the Great Lakes
To the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico for free.

Those charts alone from Garmin cost more than the Ray unit or might be included in the Garmin unit, but the price is reflected accordingly.

I love Garmin for many things...I hate their proprietary BS and they screw the small businessman from decent discounts or even carrying stock. The love to sell through large outfits....unless something changed since I was in the business...but based on what I see small marine electronics guys pushing..,I don't think so.

 

[Bay Pelican]

I understand the appeal of running a pc based system but I think I will pass on that one. I have been a Windows user for 20 years now and although I appreciate everything it has allowed, I am simply not interested in introducing that wildcard to my boat. I can just picture the thing initiating a reboot as the fog descends or something like that.

I understand that manufacturers use some form of operating system in all of these units but the scaled down versions seem to run more cleanly...

Thanks for the input though, you did get me thinking!
Bruce

We have used PC based navigation for over 12 years. Won't suggest it is the best but we have learned a few tricks over the I would like to pass on. Given the cheapness of low end computers today we totally dedicate the navigation computer to navigation. There is only the operating system and the navigation program. Nothing else not even a web browser. Currently we are using a net top from Asus. Price around $300. Connected to a sunlight viewable monitor.

 

[Portage_Bay]

My $0.02

Furuno hardware is as close to bullet proof as you can get. That is why you see so many Furuno units on work boats. But their user interface is terrible. Do as many have advised go "hands on" at a boat show and test drive.

Simrad in my opinion has the best UI. However I have not found their equipment to be as reliable as Furuno.

Garmin, I have only used their hand held units. Just fine for that purpose.

Raymarine, I have only used one radar. A true POS but it was a low cost unit. You get what you pay for.

Lots of good advice here. Think about how and what you want to integrate. How you want to do your route planning. Also think about service and support for your cruising area.