Diesel fuel alternatives???

[ScottC]

I have been reading recent threads about spiking fuel costs and what boaters can do about the situation. Heating fuel has been mentioned.

This thread discusses the pros & cons of heating fuel for diesel engines.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/running-lehman-120-home-heating-oil-60014-2.html

My general take-away from the above thread is that for old diesel engines, one might be able to get away with it, but there are tradeoffs. For newer engines, Turbo-diesels and the like, using heating oil is risky.

In about a month, we will embark on a ~1300 nm trip from France to Malta. We have been expecting high fuel prices and, for the little fuel we use, current prices are not an obstacle. BUT...in the last few weeks, there has been increasing talk of RATIONING gas (natural), gasoline, diesel and even electricity in Sweden. Not sure about the rest of Europe, but I am quite certain the situation is not limited to Sweden.

So, I find myself wondering what our options might be if we find ourselves in the middle of our journey, needing fuel...and there's none to be had. Perhaps we could get away with mixing in a little heating fuel for a short hop to a marina that we know -- in advance -- has some marine diesel available. Other than that, are there any other practical and safe options for short-term use in modern diesel engines??? Cost is not a factor.

Edit: Ok - I know there will be plenty of olive oil where we're going...but if that's an option, I guess cost would become a factor ;-)

 

[koliver]

As one who heats the house with "Heating Oil" my fuel bill has increased right along with the cost of marine Diesel. I have yet to see a time where there was any savings. In fact, I filled my boat last summer, then I had to empty one of my tanks to do a repair, and cancelled a delivery of heating oil in order to have a little room in the home tank for some of the boat diesel. I actually saved a little by burning boat diesel in the furnace at the house.

 

[Benthic2]

You could get some storage ( drums, bladder, jerry cans) and start stockpiling now. Figure out how much fuel you will need for the entire trip. Once you have that much stockpiled, "fuel stress" willl be one less thing to worry about.

 

[KnotYet]

I don't think a boat is a good place to store or use vegetable oil as a fuel.
A conversion could be made if the engine is an older analog design -
preferably not turbocharged - but VO is not an ideal diesel fuel.
I bought a VW TDI Jetta that was converted to use WVO (waste vegetable oil)
and it worked pretty well. The problem is long-term buildup of residue from
non-combustible substances in the oil. The exhaust smells better though.

 

[DDW]

Had I been smart, I would have purchase oil futures last summer when diesel seemed like a historically low price (at least recently). That would have hedged this summers usage. I'm going to consider that next cycle.

 

[Lepke]

Home heating oil was #1 diesel if nothing has changed. It burns slightly hotter, gives more power. Lots of fishermen with diesel stoves burn #1 all the time because the stove burns cleaner, hotter and produces less soot. If you're somewhere a truck can get to, fuel dealers will deliver #1 & #2 direct to a vessel at lower cost than marina prices. I don't know the minimum they'll deliver, but probably 500+ gallons.

Ships burn MDO, Marine Diesel Oil. There are several blends and all include inorganic salts that will buildup on the injector tips. It's about half the cost of #2 diesel. It's preheated and usually circulated thru the fuel lines before starting.

Lots of oil field diesels use to burn crude oil. Don't know if they still do. Older Caterpillar engines were sold because they could burn #3 or other grades.

 

[jgwinks]

The University research vessels I ran burned B99, or 99% biodiesel. Not waste fry oil, it's virgin soy oil. This was about 15 years ago, the bio was more expensive then, maybe not now. Engines (DD's and Cummins)ran pretty well on it with about a 10% loss in efficiency compared to petro. Ran cleaner with no soot, the lube oil looked pretty much the same at 100 hours as it did brand new. The exhaust didn't smell like French fries though, it was more like the castor oil mixed fuel for model airplanes. Not a very pleasant smell. The only real problem we had was the bio softened the rubber fuel hoses, we went through two complete sets before we found a type that was compatible. $$$. We were one of the first to use it so no one knew what would work long term. They probably have that figured out by now.

 

[slowgoesit]

Although I'd love to discover an "alternative" fuel for my engine, I'll let someone else risk their engine with an untried fuel, and I'll just buy the fuel they didn't buy for use in mine!
Maybe in a VW Rabbit, but not my boat engine . . .

 

[High Wire]

There is always one guy riding around town with an ancient, grimy Mercedes 300D and a big jug of biofuel on the roof. Bet you’ve seen him!

 

[ScottC]

Thank you for all the responses!

Except for possibly risking the purchase of some non-taxed diesel, I have concluded from this thread that it would be wise to not try any other substitute due to the risk of fouling or damaging various components in my modern diesel engine.

Benthic2's response started me thinking about an approach I'd not considered before. While I'm loathe to carry jugs/drums/bladders of diesel on deck, I could certainly do this. Considering space and weight, I might be able to comfortably carry an extra 55 US gallons -- but in smaller containers than a single drum.

I'm sure most here will laugh at my tiny numbers and that I'm even stressed about this...
Doing the math, my 1300 nm trip would take about 280 US gallons at optimal speed in optimal conditions. And with a ~50% mix of sub-optimal speed and sub-optimal conditions, I would use 365 US gallons. Fortunately, my tanks are currently full. Going with the “365 gallon Scenario” would look like this:

365 Gallons required for trip (likely worst-case scenario)
minus 100 Gallons (usable fuel currently in tanks after deducting 15% reserve)
minus 70 Gallons saved from running our typical ~20% of distance on pure electric (no diesel charging)
minus 55 Gallons storage on deck
140 Gallons remaining to locate and buy enroute

In summary, the 140 gallon number looks manageable. In the worst case, I could run the remaining distance this 140 gallons implies entirely on electric, by adding more marina nights to my itinerary. In the very, very worst case, I can run 2.1 knots on solar alone when the weather is nice – though I normally would never plan even a day’s journey relying on this. Still, it’s a bit comforting to know that that form of “reserve” is there.

 

[ScottC]

I don't think a boat is a good place to store or use vegetable oil as a fuel.
A conversion could be made if the engine is an older analog design -
preferably not turbocharged - but VO is not an ideal diesel fuel.
I bought a VW TDI Jetta that was converted to use WVO (waste vegetable oil)
and it worked pretty well. The problem is long-term buildup of residue from
non-combustible substances in the oil. The exhaust smells better though.

This comment was especially interesting, as my engine is a VW Marine 165-5 TDI. And I believe I was told at one time that the base engine is the same as that in the Passat. In other words, I could go to a VW dealer, if necessary for many of the parts. Anyway, my take-away here is that while it might work, a CONVERSION of some sort would be necessary to use WVO. I guess I don't want to contemplate that right now. It's certainly interesting to learn about this, however, should Europe some day ban the sale/use of fossil fuels for recreation.

 

[DavidM]

When I lived in Oriental, NC every once in a while, a cruiser would pull into the town dock and ask around for any waste vegetable oil. The nearby marina and restaurant sold theirs for bio diesel, but I suppose he found some at the other restaurants in town.

As I recall he had an old Westerbeke engine of about 50 hp driving his trawler. I never saw his engine run, but others said it was quite smokey.

FWIW WVO is not biodiesel. Biodiesel is WVO that has been converted to change its chemistry to be more acceptable in diesels.

I think Scott's third paragraph in his original post says it all:

"My general take-away from the above thread is that for old diesel engines, one might be able to get away with it, but there are tradeoffs. For newer engines, Turbo-diesels and the like, using heating oil is risky."

And also FWIW, I got a delivery of No 2 heating oil several weeks ago: $4.45/gal. That was a few cents more than the pump price for diesel at the time. Marina diesel is usually higher in our area.

The bulk, wholesale price of No 2 was about $3.00/gal three weeks ago. Today it is about $3.60 and the peak a few weeks ago was $4.44.gal. So it shot up but has settled down quite a bit.

Fidelity has charts of all of the bulk fuel prices here: https://eresearch.fidelity.com/eresearch/goto/markets_sectors/landing.jhtml

Scroll down to US Markets Performance and click on Energy and the fuel you are interested in to open the chart.

David

 

[Iggy]

At 280gal you saying you can do 1300NM is is roughly 4.2 MPG. You must be using electric motor most of the way.

A dealer told me that a 4hr solar charge will last 2 hours doing 5 knots. You could increase your battery bank and your solar panels to get more run time and/or shorter charging time. Safer and easier than carrying more fuel.

Just a thought.........

 

[ScottC]

At 280gal you saying you can do 1300NM is is roughly 4.2 MPG. You must be using electric motor most of the way.

A dealer told me that a 4hr solar charge will last 2 hours doing 5 knots. You could increase your battery bank and your solar panels to get more run time and/or shorter charging time. Safer and easier than carrying more fuel.

Just a thought.........

I only have a single engine and it burns 1.55 gph at 7 knots when the conditions are reasonably calm. No electric involved for that.

 

[Iggy]

I only have a single engine and it burns 1.55 gph at 7 knots when the conditions are reasonably calm. No electric involved for that.

Than you don't need 280 gals of fuel. You need 287, plus ay lest 10% more just in case. If it was me, I would say 50 gal in reserve. But than again, you have the electric motor.

 

[ScottC]

Than you don't need 280 gals of fuel. You need 287, plus ay lest 10% more just in case. If it was me, I would say 50 gal in reserve. But than again, you have the electric motor.

I was working with what I called above "the 365 gal scenario" because it assumes sub-optimal sea conditions 50% of the time (i.e. higher fuel consumption) and a 15% reserve.

 

[Alisske]

Hi. Im the one that started the thread cited.

I took a trip from NY to Bermuda in the end of October and got a 325 gallon bladder. A great savings for me was to have home fuel oil company fill the bladder. (I had the guy run the hose through my garage back to the boat that was in a bulk head). Saved about 500-600$ Vs the marina.

Just am FYI, had a bad experience with the bladder durability with the seams oozing after some bad seas. . When i discussed with other folks, they were like “yeah, that happens”.

Would only use drums moving forward. I Used drums for years (10$ on craigslist) prior to the bladder.