Diesel: Truck Applications

[JAT]

Look in the mirror, that big semi with a slash through the grill is a Volvo.

Not to poke a stick at you....but if you look very closely at many of the new Volvo Class 8 tractors....they do not have Volvo engines.....

 

[sunchaser]

Not to poke a stick at you....but if you look very closely at many of the new Volvo Class 8 tractors....they do not have Volvo engines.....

OK, I'll bite. Who makes Volvo's popular D16, D13 and D11 truck engines?

 

[JAT]

OK, I'll bite. Who makes Volvo's popular D16, D13 and D11 truck engines?

I believe they do....

What I was talking about...is that nor all Volvo's are powered with their engines... There are a number of fleets running Cummins ISX's in them, and some with Cat C-16's or other Cat engines. I believe I have even seen a few with Mercedes engine badges...

 

[sunchaser]

Volvo's engine factory is in Maryland. It is fabulous. It is hard to understand why anyone today would buy a Volvo truck sans driveline, transmission and engine. Especially given the commercial success of the Ds - 16, 13 and 11 packages.

 

[FF]

It is hard to understand why anyone today would buy a Volvo truck sans driveline, transmission and engine.

Many over the road truckers will purchase a "glider" a brand bew truck with out the power train.

By installing a rebuilt pre 2003 engine they get a repairable truck that is very reliable and will give 15% to 20% better fuel mileage. No UREA or 1000F cat converter to buy or fear.

Not all trucker want to pay for the exhaust from their truck on the NJ Turnpike to exhaust cleaner air than goes in the intake.

 

[JAT]

Volvo's engine factory is in Maryland. It is fabulous. It is hard to understand why anyone today would buy a Volvo truck sans driveline, transmission and engine. Especially given the commercial success of the Ds - 16, 13 and 11 packages.

Aside from what FF said, which is true, another reason is that there is been a lot of money spent repairing engines with the EGR valves on them... because when the EGR goes...it normally takes out the turbo with it. Volvo did produce some engines with EGR's, like Cummins did....

The SCR engines might be more reliable...but...the combination of lower fuel mileage and the constant cost of DEF greatly reduces profits...

And then...there is the issue of partiality....while the VN series of class 8 trucks is very nice, and even some are plush and roomy inside...the owner might be partial to Cat's or Cummins and prefers a Meritor tranny over an Eaton.... just as some like 10 speeds, some 13's, and others go for the 18's....

 

[Nomad Willy]

That's a big deal w truckers. I drove an old GMC Astro 95 for quite a few years and as a truck grew quite fond of it. Was a tandem axle boxy cabover that I didn't find the least bit becoming when I first saw it (oh no not that) but the 335 Cummins engine and the 10 speed Road Ranger transmission won me over soon. The short wheelbase was great in Seattle too. Only one big complaint was that when loaded over 50000lbs and stopped on a hill in front of a light one had to do terrible things to that clutch to roll off when the light turned green. The clutch moaned and groaned but never seemed to really suffer from it.

I also transported trusses w a big Mack dual axle flat bed w trailer and crane. That Mack had only a 5 speed so I've never driven a big truck w enough gears. But the Mack engine lugged really well. Most or all of those orange GB Hunt trucks have only a 7 speed. Thirteen must be ideal. But I can see how one could get very subjective about what truck to drive but I've ment some drivers that could care less.

 

[sunchaser]

Many over the road truckers will purchase a "glider" a brand bew truck with out the power train.

By installing a rebuilt pre 2003 engine they get a repairable truck that is very reliable and will give 15% to 20% better fuel mileage. No UREA or 1000F cat converter to buy or fear.

Not all trucker want to pay for the exhaust from their truck on the NJ Turnpike to exhaust cleaner air than goes in the intake.

As best I understand how the individual State's DOT and federal EPA work, it is illegal to buy or sell a new "glider" and repower it with an engine that does not meet current emissions specs. What is theoretically possible and what is $$ common sense and legal are two different things.

A non spec truck could not even enter CA although I'm sure it could do a Mexico run, once. FF and JAT, call up Volvo and ask if you could purchase a glider to install a non spec engine. In FL one of their largest dealers is Truckmax Inc in Miami. I'd be interested in their response especailly when you tell them you want to subvert Tier 3 and 4 Federal Law.

And BTW, where did you get the data that says the new trucks are less fuel efficient than say a Cat powered unit from 20 years ago? My 5+ decades of buying diesel equipment says just the reverse.

 

[FF]

California has reached the insanity point that few truckers will bother to deliver there.

This is not a real problem as the CA inventory tax has driven most CA industries to warehouse in NV.

The CA only trucks with special engines , tires and wind skirts take the goodies into CA.

Does this add huge expense , yes , but CA seems to enjoy paying more for less.

 

[RickB]

California has reached the insanity point that few truckers will bother to deliver there.

Where do you get your information, from Ancora?

"The Tractor-Trailer Greenhouse Gas regulation applies to 53-foot or longer box-type trailers ... and all heavy-duty tractors that pull them on California highways."

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/documents/multirule.pdf

"Although California had fewer truck-tractors registered than
Florida and Texas, it had the highest number of
commercial trucks at 3.4 million. California, Florida,
and Texas combined are home to nearly one-third
of all commercial trucks on the road."

http://www.trucking.org/Documents/Trends_2011_web.pdf

It doesn't look like it scared off all that many.

 

[FF]

You are confusing trucks that actually ARE in Ca with the trucks that are expected to deliver there.

AS the regulation continues to increase , fewer and fewer out of state trucks are willing to be built to CA rules , so drop in NV will continue to expand.

 

[RickB]

No Fred, I am trying to tell you that the reason some truckers drop their loads in Nevada has zip to do with California trucking regs and almost everything to do with taxes.

| Nevada vs. California Tax Analysis | ITS Logistics

http://nds-usa.com/silver-state-tax-incentives/

It is obvious that you believe each and every environmental and energy related regulation is the devil's work but give it a break, try to learn something about the world you live in and stop listening to the anti-everything whackjobs for a while ... just try it for a week.

Have you ever actually been to California or Nevada? Have you ever seen the truck traffic on I-5, I-15, or I-80? It is huge and projected to increase by a very large amount ... no trucking company is going to go out of business just so they can give California the finger.

 

[CPseudonym]

LTL's dragging triple trailers have a significant impact on the stats for dropping trailers at the Nevada state line. Tandems only are allowed in California. Most major LTL's have yards on the Nevada side of the state line to allow for switching trailers inbound and outbound to meet these requirements. Same tractors continue east and west.

 

[JAT]

Sunchaser... I realize there is a significant argument over fuel mileage...but when it all shakes out in the wash...the only way to actually ascertain which version of the same engine gets the best mileage...would be to run the engines under a full load in a vacuum. There are far too many variables. Terrain, weather, the drivers shifting habit, etc.

Unless CA has gone totally LOOPY....the actual greatest reason why so many non-CA truckers do not want to go out there is their NO IDLING RULES! Under their rules you could be in southern CA...in the summer, 98 degrees at night....and you cannot run your engine to use your AC in order to be able to sleep. Many companies hung APU's on their tractors...and the CA air nazis jumped on that as well. Unless your equipment conforms to their outlandish rulings....they don't care if you freeze to death or die of heat stroke....
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truck-idling/factsheet.pdf

Now if your engine was one of the ones that now carries the sticker that certifies it as CA compliant...its a different story, however there are still restrictions.

Me buy a tractor....nope...not unless I was to put it out in the middle of a field and use it for target practice. Whether or not any truck dealer would sell a glider...is up to them...but in this economy...they would probably sell their mother.

One other minor thing.... Historically the CA DOT has been a bit of a pain in the butt, which isn't necessarily a bad thing...but they to my knowledge still have a 55mph truck speed....and it is a pain in the butt...and a big revenue generator for them.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Truckers don't actually go 55mph do they?

 

[CPseudonym]

Truckers don't actually go 55mph do they?

Not on the California roads I drive. If and when they are pulled over for speeding 55 is the posted speed on the ticket. Away from the scales 70 is common.

 

[ancora]

On the rare occasions it does rain, we all slow down to 70, just to be safe. As an aside, all ships entering California waters, must shift to light diesel fuel thanks to the enviro- wackos that rule this state. Of course, this rule leads to higher shipping costs that are passed on to consumers, so what the heck.

 

[koliver]

I have been driving the CA freeways to snowbird destinations for the past two years. My Motorhome with a trailer is supposed to go in the truck lanes. To keep up with the trucks, I usually go 65 in the 55 zones. Occasionally they all go 70, almost never 55.

 

[sunchaser]

Sunchaser... I realize there is a significant argument over fuel mileage...but when it all shakes out in the wash...the only way to actually ascertain which version of the same engine gets the best mileage...would be to run the engines under a full load in a vacuum. There are far too many variables. Terrain, weather, the drivers shifting habit, etc. /QUOTE]

The age in which we live helps to quantify the variables. Dynos and computers have made the variables easier to gauge, not only for emissions but warranties of same required by the Feds.

My primary experience with off road and genset diesels has been with Cat. Their engine designs have all hit the Dyno for decades, or better yet half a century, to compare loading vs fuel burn, EGR design, oil change hours, cooling capacity, turbo setup etc with the last 15 years heavy into onboard computers to keep track of things and insure emissions are met. All this is of done of course to improve sales from an ever more demanding customer and government base.

If you are ever near Peoria try to obtain a tour of Cat's engine Labs. Dramatic and I'm sure JD, Cummins, MB, MTU and Volvo are the same. You would come away a believer that the quest for emissions control has spawned a more powerful and fuel efficient diesel, whether stationary (boats and gensets), over the road (cars and trucks) or off highway (loaders, trucks,dozers etc).

 

[Nomad Willy]

I have been driving the CA freeways to snowbird destinations for the past two years. My Motorhome with a trailer is supposed to go in the truck lanes. To keep up with the trucks, I usually go 65 in the 55 zones. Occasionally they all go 70, almost never 55.

A Nation of outlaws.

I often say one could drive for years at 10 over and never get pulled over.
I'd say the speed that one would start getting tickets is the actual speed limit.
But I don't want to go 95mph.

 

[FF]

There are many truck companies that have hundreds of trucks.

Their driver fleet varies from great to pure crap.

They track mileage very carefully (they pay the bills) .

The required clean air equipment , going after that last 1 or 2 % lowers fleet mileage by about 15% .

And caused great increases in maint ,and decrease in reliability , to the point that the "bad" trucks are simply sold , new ones purchased.

 

[RickB]

As an aside, all ships entering California waters, must shift to light diesel fuel thanks to the enviro- wackos that rule this state. Of course, this rule leads to higher shipping costs that are passed on to consumers, so what the heck.

Talk about whackos ... there are emissions regulated areas all over the world now, not just California. If you want the next generation of little Ancoras to breath, though I shudder at that thought, how about quit whining about people who care enough about the world to help keep it livable.

And, not that reality or the truth is part of your vocabulary or of much importance to you, California's limit on sulfur for ships is 0.1 percent. That is about 67 times the amount in on-road truck fuel so it's not like the State has forced ships to burn truck stop fuel.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

It is obvious that you believe each and every environmental and energy related regulation is the devil's work but give it a break, try to learn something about the world you live in and stop listening to the anti-everything whackjobs for a while ... just try it for a week.

A very close friend of mine spent a few weeks in Havana this past summer. He said the place was filthy but what really made an impression on him was the air pollution. He said he now appreciates what the EPA has done for air pollution in this country.

And no, my friend is not some liberal left wing wacko who was in Cuba to pay homage to Castro.

 

[JAT]

Truckers don't actually go 55mph do they?

Actually most do in CA.... Tickets are too expensive.... but some of them will push the mark.

 

[CPseudonym]

Actually most do in CA.... Tickets are too expensive.... but some of them will push the mark.

They drive 55 when mired in traffic or carrying a Haz Mat load. Some companies(notably UPS) monitor their trucks and the corporate electronic babysitter keeps their speed at 55. "Push the mark" must be a reference to the speed the bulk of the fleet normally drives.

Not casting stones just stating observed facts from driving among them daily. You will have a hard time convincing anyone living and driving California highways daily that very many trucks drive 55 mph unless a cop is in the area or when approaching a scale.

 

[RickB]

He said he now appreciates what the EPA has done for air pollution in this country.

Yeah but the EPA is a real threat to profits!

With reference to Marin's claims that the US will soon be put out of business by the Chinese and their work ethic in cooperation with a government that doesn't put so many silly environmental barriers to achieving that goal, here is a photo of the folks who will do it ... well, maybe some of them - those who survive long enough.

Record Beijing air pollution forces warning from China officials to keep kids indoors - CBS News

Chinese air pollution hits record levels

China pledges to curb auto emissions, reduce air pollution - latimes.com

 

[JAT]

They drive 55 when mired in traffic or carrying a Haz Mat load. Some companies(notably UPS) monitor their trucks and the corporate electronic babysitter keeps their speed at 55. "Push the mark" must be a reference to the speed the bulk of the fleet normally drives.

Not casting stones just stating observed facts from driving among them daily. You will have a hard time convincing anyone living and driving California highways daily that very many trucks drive 55 mph unless a cop is in the area or when approaching a scale.

Our fleets trucks were heavily monitored...and we had the electronic logs to boot. Normally we pulled hazmat into CA, and hazmat out.... So the speeds were kept to 55...except when climbing the "Grapevine"....

Pushing the mark relates to the fact that thee were a number of them that would take a chance on not getting caught....

My take...... was that most people in CA in cars were averaging around 75 or 80 most of the time...and I always marveled at the fact that CA held truck speeds to 55...even in the desert areas.... Revenue??

 

[CPseudonym]

Our fleets trucks were heavily monitored...and we had the electronic logs to boot. Normally we pulled hazmat into CA, and hazmat out.... So the speeds were kept to 55...except when climbing the "Grapevine"....

Hazmat haulers are easily identified as they are the ones all the other trucks are passing. We call them rolling chicanes.

My take...... was that most people in CA in cars were averaging around 75 or 80 most of the time...and I always marveled at the fact that CA held truck speeds to 55...even in the desert areas.... Revenue??

Correct!

 

[Marin]

With reference to Marin's claims that the US will soon be put out of business by the Chinese and their work ethic in cooperation with a government that doesn't put so many silly environmental barriers to achieving that goal....

You are failing to see the beauty of their situation. Without environmental barriers they can accelerate their so-far extremely successful program to bury the US economically, while at the same time the environmental freedom that is allowing them to do this is also helping to solve their massive population problem.

So for them, that photo you posted depicts a win-win.

 

[FF]

Folks wanting the small truck owners view of the issues involved with large trucks might want to visit

OOIDA , and read their mag , LAND LINE.

In the larger sizes 250-600hp their engines are the source of many of our boat motor conversions , their experience on economy , reliability and repairability are of interest.