Do you think this is a good idea?

[JDCAVE]

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim

 

[rgano]

NO. 55-gal drums? 7.6 pounds per gallon is 2500 pounds give or take. If it did not roll the boat over at the dock, it might just crush the structure.

 

[IRENE]

No sir. I would prefer bladders, and as low as possible.

 

[koliver]

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim

Isn't there still fuel available at Shearwater (I haven't checked today)? Wouldn't a better approach be to spend some time on the phone checking on fuel availability and make the route accordingly?

As for Cape Caution, waiting in Port Hardy for a window of opportunity seems like an easy matter. When I was there last year, our rounding of CC was in swells of less than 1.0m, chop of <0.1m. Easy, but the following day was forecast to have more chop.

 

[tiltrider1]

Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim

Why would some one need that much fuel to get around Cape Caution. Is this camp fuel being delivered?

Same here, why are you carrying that much fuel?

It is 130 miles from Port McNiell to Shearwater.

 

[JDCAVE]

Questions, Questions!

I’m in Port Hardy. The vessel in question is going well past Shearwater.

A correction: 7 barrels of a “pink” liquid. I’m guessing it’s not antifreeze or hand soap.

 

[Comodave]

It would be an issue in my mind as to how do you secure them securely? You may plan on good weather but just in case of weather changes they had better be well secured. On most recreational boats there are not many places to tie off for that amount of weight. The fittings better be through bolted and backed up with good sized backing plates. I agree that a bladder would be preferred. Also the bladder will roll up when empty and you don’t have to store the empties.

 

[Ken E.]

I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.

 

[psneeld]

For me it would depend.

One, how much would that change my draft..... and overall stability.

Two, how easy to dump overboard in an emergency.....

Three, do I have deck space and tie down points suitable.

Four, how much do I trust weather forecasting.

 

[PM]

2,500 pounds is not an awfully lot for a boat that size. My 36 carries 1,500 pounds of water and probably about 2,000 pounds of fuel. The problem is that you already have your fuel tanks, water tanks and all provisions on board.

That extra 2,500 pounds, being on deck is an invitation for disaster. Don't do it. If it doesn't crush the deck, ruin your floor or make you so top heavy you will roll over in a swell it just might work but not worth the risk, IMHO.

pete

 

[psneeld]

Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.

To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.

While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.

 

[Codger2]

I wouldn't do it, with that much weight up high and the variability of the conditions you might face at CC, even with favorable weather predictions.

+1

 

[koliver]

Without stability info.....NO ONE can predict the stability of adding weight on deck.

To support, again it is dependent on boat construction and where the containers are stored.

While trying it could lead to disaster if no homework was done....doing the right amount could lead to a realistic idea that it is possible.

Good advice.

Don't want the CBC to have another disaster to report. Remember this one, only 5 yrs ago, in open water, passenger weight up high, it only took one rogue wave.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40268008

 

[Always Late]

The fuel savings is not worth the risk!
Gary

 

[Portage_Bay]

Disclaimer: Much of my stabililty understanding, study and experience is for vessels considerably lager than a 38 - 40 ft boat.

Before going too far I would apply a reasonableness test.

Avg weight of #2 diesel is 7.2 lbs / gal. Average because weight per volume changes with temperature, but 7.2 is more than close enough for this.

55 gal per drum = 396 lbs / drum of fuel, not accounting for the drum weight.

6 drums = 2376 lbs, again not accounting for drum weight.

How many 200 lb friends would you let up on the upper deck of a 40 ft boat? 2376 / 200 - 11.88. Add in the weight of the drums and lashing gear and you have roughly 12 of your 200 lb friends up there.

So, the reasonableness test. Would you let 12 of your 200 lb friends ride on the upper deck rounding Cape Caution? An area well known for heavy weather and rough seas?

This scenario surely fails my reasonableness test.

To go any further I'd need good stability info.

Is it worth the risk without a sability study? In my opinon definitely not.

It is worth the expense of a stability study give the above reasonablenss test? Probably not.

Can you find any hydrostatic data on a Tolly? Probably not given how long ago the company closed it's doors.

And, speaking from personal experience. I've owned a 40 ft Tolly and would never dream of letting 12 200 puunders up there, even at the dock.

 

[Russell Clifton]

In case some of you have not seen what can happen when to much weight is put up high on the bridge.

 

[twistedtree]

Jim, what’s the context for the question? Did you see someone heading out like this?

 

[sunchaser]

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim

JD

Is it safe to assume a diesel powered vessel?

A relative's boat rounded Cape Caution on June 13th. He sent me some enroute pictures. The water was like glass. Very rare and not predictable until one gets out there.

The Tolly guy hopefully knows how to be weather smart and adroit at transferring fuel continually from higher to lower tanks. But as mentioned, topping up in Shearwater is easy enough to do.

 

[GH41]

We had a big Marine Trader turn over in flat calm water inshore. 30 or so booze cruisers (half on the bridge deck) leaning over the starboard rail to look at the dolphins. Didn't help that the owner tried unsuccessfully for 2 hours to top off the water tank.

 

[Shrew]

Questions, Questions!

I’m in Port Hardy. The vessel in question is going well past Shearwater.

A correction: 7 barrels of a “pink” liquid. I’m guessing it’s not antifreeze or hand soap.

Yes, there are questions. Why would you expect anyone to willingly help you build a square wheel?

Whether the vessel is going well past shearwater doesn't address why it is refusing to stop for fuel.

7 barrels of a "pink liquid" sounds like a vaguely documented manifest. Is this Tolly engaged in commercial shipping? Otherwise, how is it that the owner/operator doesn't know what is in the large load of barrels strapped to the deck?

 

[JDCAVE]

Jim, what’s the context for the question? Did you see someone heading out like this?

I have been somewhat cryptic about this to protect someone who is somewhat...how shall we say this politely? Not smart?

Yes. This is an actual event. We are still in Port Hardy and are looking across at this vessel. Coast guard just came by and I mentioned the vessel and he said, “Ohhh! We are well aware of that vessel. It’s not diesel, he came in with 8 barrels of gasoline on his decks” [note some of this is on his flybridge].

He ran up on the reef right by the main wharf before the inner harbour and ruined his props and running gear, and they had to wait til the next higher tide to pull him off. According to the officer there was no navigation equipment on the fly bridge when this happened and the reef is clearly marked. I’m not sure what he has on the lower helm for equipment.



The individual in question was travelling from Portland Oregon to Ketchikan. He has since gone to Ketchikan but his boat remains here. For now.

I have photos but I’m not posting them here because it clearly shows the vessel’s name.

Jim

 

[twistedtree]

Gas powered boat and an attempt to transit BC non stop because of travel restrictions?

 

[healhustler]

Holy crap!

 

[KnotYet]

If the barrels are full of gasoline they only weigh 1972 pounds plus another hundred
and change for the six barrels.
No problem!

 

[Spinner]

Plenty of fuel available past Cape Caution!! For a normally-equipped boat, there is no need. Check out Shearwater, Hartley Bay, Klemtu, Dawson’s Landing.....

 

[OldDan1943]

You call him 'politely not smart', I suspect the rest of might call him an idiot.

 

[dirtdoc1]

Would you put 6 drums of diesel on the top decks of a 38-40’ Tolly for a crossing of Cape Caution?

Jim

It sounds like a very bad idea. Diesel is about 7 lb/gal. That's about 2300 lbs on your deck. Please do not do that. Maybe a bladder in the cockpit? No, never mind. It's a really bad idea. I saw Dirona (in a youtube video) do that with bladders and that 52' Nordhavn was riding really low.

Are you trying to avoid the delivery cost? I wouldn't put my life on the line for that.

 

[PM]

The bottom line on this operation seems to be smuggling gasoline into Canada to save money or to resell.

Add legal risks to the stability and explosion risks. I hope there is a TON of profit potential to risk either going to jail, to visit King Neptune or maybe he is delivering gasoline to poor hungry fishermen and when he dies he will go to heaven.

pete

 

[dirtdoc1]

LOL! I didn't realize that the OP was just posting a question about some IQ challenged person. Then I read further about the "the person" grounding his/her boat. No it had to be a guy because women are smarter.

It takes all kinds. I probably would have tried that in my teens. No?...no!! I wouldn't have.