Fotoman
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Now that would be great for us boat owners. It can fold and takes as little space as a spare tire.
Electric bike by VW
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Capn Chuck
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What a great idea and product. Unfortunately, like everything else green and environmentally friendly, it will no doubt be so expensive, no one will buy it. Sort of like the hybrid cars. They are so expensive that you will pay way more additionally for the car than you will ever save in fuel. Until this changes, I don't see the "green" markets growing any time soon or the rest of us benefiting from it. Chuck
RT Firefly
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Hiya,
** I fully agree Capn Chuck but that bike would be dandy but there currently ARE foldable models available.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes/folders.html* Again, all quite pricey.
** As usual, no connections with any of the companies at all
-- Edited by RT Firefly on Wednesday 27th of October 2010 08:21:06 AM
** I fully agree Capn Chuck but that bike would be dandy but there currently ARE foldable models available.
http://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes/folders.html* Again, all quite pricey.
** As usual, no connections with any of the companies at all
-- Edited by RT Firefly on Wednesday 27th of October 2010 08:21:06 AM
Keith
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Why does the average consumer equate green with electric? Well duh. All it does is move the points of pollution from one spot to another. Lose a lot of energy in the conversion and transmission. The battery technology is expensive and the manufacture of them is very polluting. So much so, materials move back and forth over the oceans to and from countries who will actually make them. I'm still waiting for the first wave of electric car owners to have to replace their battery banks.
"WHAT? $15,000 for the battery bank? Nobody told me they would wear out!?"
"WHAT? $15,000 for the battery bank? Nobody told me they would wear out!?"
I agree with everything Keith says about electric stuff. Energy's energy and you have to generate it somehow. And battery manufacturing, from the raw materials mines to the end product, is anything but environmentally friendly.
But one of my co-workers bought one of the first Priuses sold in Seattle. How many years ago is that? A bunch. Actually she and her husband bought two of them. And as of the last time I talked to her--- so a few months ago--- both of them were still operating on their original batteries.
But one of my co-workers bought one of the first Priuses sold in Seattle. How many years ago is that? A bunch. Actually she and her husband bought two of them. And as of the last time I talked to her--- so a few months ago--- both of them were still operating on their original batteries.
Codger2
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Short story.........before I bought my first Prius, I called the dealer to see how much it would cost to replace the hybrid battery. (Prius has 2 batts..hybrid and a small 12V for everything else) He said a replacement would cost me $3,800.00. I ask him if he stocked them and he said "if you need one, you will be the first guy in America that does." After investigating the car more, Internet, magazines, etc., I bought my first one, a 2007. I am now driving a 2010 and the hybrid battery is guaranteed for 150,000 miles. I have heard of a guy in Manhattan, NY that uses a Prius as a taxi and has 295,000 miles on the original hybrid battery. If you've never driven one, you can't possibly know how great these cars are.
*
-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 27th of October 2010 10:12:29 PM
STITA taxi service in Seattle has a fleet of Priuses.* I don't think they bought them voluntarily but as the result of a city ordinenace or something that mandated the fuel economy* or emissions or sometthing of taxi companies.* I could be wrong on that, but I seem to recall that was the reason for the purchase.
Several of my co-workers have Priuses, some of them quite new, and I've ridden in them although I've never driven one.* I don't have anything against the concept at all although I think there are better alternatives coming, and they are quite nice on the inside.* My main problem with the Prius and the reason I would never buy one is that it is just so incredibly butt-ugly (sorry Seahorse, but it is).* I don't know why everything that's "environmental" has to look like it was designed by Hellen Keller.* There's no reason sheet metal can't be bent aesthetically around a hybrid drive system.
Yes, I'm aware of the Tesla but for the price of one of them I could feed a Ferrari (if I had one) for the rest of my life.
*
FF
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Since most of these Green items will simply be plugged into the grid, the are really COAL powered.
That's GOOD as the coal is "Made in the USA".
That's GOOD as the coal is "Made in the USA".
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Precisely my objection, and to prove it, the hybrid Camry is exactly like the normal non-hybrid model, so they can do it if they want to.* So why did they have to make the Prius look so weird?* (Sorry Walt, but it does).* Clearly they did it on purpose with the Prius, and one can only conjecture as to how many more they might have sold if it had a more sexy/purposeful/racey/or even orthodox, look.* Instead it is none of the above.* But I can believe it is nice to drive and ride in.
*
Keith
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Then why the hell doesn't someone make boat or regular car batteries with the same technology... they should cost $100 and last 20 years!
Codger2
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I can't argue with that as I agree!
The Prius was the first hybrid to be designed from
the ground up as a hybrid.* Weight, aerodynamic drag, fuel economy, room for* four
people etc, really dictated its design. Most of the other hybrids are existing chassis
designs with a hybrid power plant. (They are too heavy, thus they don't achieve
the mpg that thePrius delivers.) Kinda like a kangaroo. Wierd looking animal but
well designed for its environment. (Sorry Peter)
The great thing about electric power is that's it all available the moment you want it. So in theory, an electric Formula One car should outperform everything out there today, assuming the aerodynamics, handling, etc. were up to snuff.
Toyota had an equally ugly conventionally powered car at the same time the Prius came out. I can't remember the name of the model anymore-- I see them on the road every now and then--- but I always suspected that Toyota used it as the basic platform for the Prius because the original Prius body is almost identical. We (my crew and I) called this Toyota model the Trabant, the hideous car the East Germans built.
But we'd love to have an electric car if the range wasn't so pathetic. It's a great solution for city drivers, but we drive at least 600 miles a week between commuting, the round-trip drive to Bellingham almost every weekend, and my wife's doing shopping and other things. Plus we drive to places like Vancouver, BC, friends' houses on Whibey Island, and so on throughout the year. And since most of this driving is freeway or highway driving, a hybrid wouldn't do us all that much good since their worst mileage is at higher speeds when the gas engine is needed the whole time. A hybrid really pays off when driven relatively slowly in town or traffic when the gas engine is not needed as much.
Of all the automotive "new fuels" currently available I think fuel cells are the best approach. The big challenge with that is the distribution network for the hydrogen. It's not there and may be too complex and expensive to ever create.
-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 28th of October 2010 01:10:33 PM
Toyota had an equally ugly conventionally powered car at the same time the Prius came out. I can't remember the name of the model anymore-- I see them on the road every now and then--- but I always suspected that Toyota used it as the basic platform for the Prius because the original Prius body is almost identical. We (my crew and I) called this Toyota model the Trabant, the hideous car the East Germans built.
But we'd love to have an electric car if the range wasn't so pathetic. It's a great solution for city drivers, but we drive at least 600 miles a week between commuting, the round-trip drive to Bellingham almost every weekend, and my wife's doing shopping and other things. Plus we drive to places like Vancouver, BC, friends' houses on Whibey Island, and so on throughout the year. And since most of this driving is freeway or highway driving, a hybrid wouldn't do us all that much good since their worst mileage is at higher speeds when the gas engine is needed the whole time. A hybrid really pays off when driven relatively slowly in town or traffic when the gas engine is not needed as much.
Of all the automotive "new fuels" currently available I think fuel cells are the best approach. The big challenge with that is the distribution network for the hydrogen. It's not there and may be too complex and expensive to ever create.
-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 28th of October 2010 01:10:33 PM
BaltimoreLurker
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I have heard that electrics will beat a comparable IC engine off the line as it develops full torque immediately and doesn't have to climb up the RPM curve.** But outperforming across the full range?* Really?* Or speculation?
*
You'd have to come up with really good brakes since you don't have the "automatic" deceleration you get from a piston engine's compression. On the other hand, you can feed the electricity generated by turning an electric motor by the inertia of the vehicle into something that demands a huge amount of it and thus put a big resisting force into the wheels. In railroad locomotives this is called dynamic braking. Don't know if it would be scaleable down to a car or fast-acting enough for a race car.
Pineapple Girl
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back to the BIKE.* I loooove how it folds up.* Of course, who knows what they are going to sell it for!* Maybe you'll have to buy a car to get one as a gift.* i also like the idea of the fold up electric scooter, I have to check that out.* I am not worried about being green but about having some reasonable land transportation that I can keep onboard.
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Yes, that bike looks really 'sweet'.
Hey Marin, if you ever mucked about with slot cars as a kid, you'll remember the tremendous braking effect of the reverse polarity trick built into the hand controller, so I would thing the same principle could be applied in a full sized road-going version, albeit suitably modified or it might be too vicious even...?
Hey Marin, if you ever mucked about with slot cars as a kid, you'll remember the tremendous braking effect of the reverse polarity trick built into the hand controller, so I would thing the same principle could be applied in a full sized road-going version, albeit suitably modified or it might be too vicious even...?
sunchaser
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I'm currently driving from Victoria to Salt Lake City in my fuelish Suburban hauling all the year's boat junk (lots of it) back home. 18MPG, lots of stretch out room*and 70 to 80 all the way. My next vehicle for hauling boat junk may well be the Tahoe hybrid which gets 22MPG under similar duty. But no deep discounting on the Tahoe hybrid, but about $12K off a new gas only Suburban (Gov Motors). So how does one save money on a hybrid? You don't the way I*price it but one feels better.
Unfortunately my wife's suitcase(s), broken icemaker, anchors, rodes and left over staples*will not fit in a Prius.
Unfortunately my wife's suitcase(s), broken icemaker, anchors, rodes and left over staples*will not fit in a Prius.
quick calc on Sunchaser's vehicle comparison:
diff between 22 mpg and 18mpg. In order to start saving, your first 20000 gal will repay the extra cost of the hybrid, after that you save 20%.
at 22 mpg, that's 440,000 miles before saving any money.
You should live that long!
diff between 22 mpg and 18mpg. In order to start saving, your first 20000 gal will repay the extra cost of the hybrid, after that you save 20%.
at 22 mpg, that's 440,000 miles before saving any money.
You should live that long!
Phil Fill
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The trouble with most non license scooters are they are not allowed in marinas and most cities.* So if you are going to by something make sure it legal in your area.* We bought cute little100 CC little motor cycles that are street legal that weight about 150 lbs, get 75+ MPG that we can lift onto the boat. **A couple of the guys in the plant converted some motor cycles to battery powered, two 8 D batteries that can go 60+ miles an hour and range of about 60 miles for about 500 bucks.* DC motor, motor control, two 8D batteries and charger.***The only problem is finding a plug in to recharge which takes 8+ *hours?* ***
*
I have done the math and I will not give up my ¾ Dodge diesel truck which gets 18+ miles per gallon which I use 20 gallons or 70 buck per week.* Even if I could sale 50% that is*35.00 bucks per week into 10 grand extra for a hybrid is 20+ years.* By then the car or I will be dead!* It just does not work out.* On the flip site I dont think it changes the over all environment impact just the pollution location
*
I have done the math and I will not give up my ¾ Dodge diesel truck which gets 18+ miles per gallon which I use 20 gallons or 70 buck per week.* Even if I could sale 50% that is*35.00 bucks per week into 10 grand extra for a hybrid is 20+ years.* By then the car or I will be dead!* It just does not work out.* On the flip site I dont think it changes the over all environment impact just the pollution location
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