Head Banger-Peggie are you listening?

[AlaskaProf]

Given the number of santation discussions here, I've come to think of this as the "Potty Forum". But it is now my turn:

I have a pair of ancient Jabsco 37010 electric toilets, the aft one seems to work work just fine, at least it has since I snaked several decades worth of marine life out of the raw water intake line.

The forward one has been cranky for a year or more, and I picked up an overhaul kit in Seward, figuring I'd get to it after the Great Alaska Adventure ended. Well, the pump motor packed it in about a month ago--that's why we have two heads, no?

I'm in Tacoma now, waiting for the wife to come pick me up and out of excuses. Yesterday I dismounted the pump assembly and decided, since I needed a new motor, I may as well replace the whole thing. Drove up to Marine San and $240 later went to work.

Pretty basic install, once you replace the crappy screws that come with the thing.

Functional check produces pump noise and water as expected, EXCEPT: too much water. Sea water pumps in faster than out, quickly reaching a precarious level.

The seacock is at the forward end of my engine space, which is roomy enough, but awkward to enter. So I close the cock, crawl out, run the bowl dry, then experiment with several partial settings on the seacock, nearly balancing the in/out. I figure another half-dozen trips will get it just right.

But here's the punchline: the old pump and the aft one operated just fine with full in-flow. What' the fix? Things under consideration:

1. Insert a valve in the intake line near the toilet and fine-tune the flow in comfort.
2. ...valve in the line which returns some of bowl content to the rim.
3. "Joker Valve": when I removed the old pump assembly, I noticed there were a few shreds of what I assume was the valve. When I inserted the new valve into the cavity in what Jabsco calls the "discharge port" it seemed a tight fit. Seems likely this is where my problem lies. Can I dispense with the joker valve, or is there a solution that hasn't occurred to me yet?

 

[warfdog]

I just pulled the raw water toilet out of my boat to install a fresh water replacement with a larger bowl. The hoses and Y-valve were 90% obstructed by calcium buildup.

Replace the hoses and check the Y-valve for blocking. The only thing that removed the hard calcium buildup was muriatic acid soaking after removing from the boat. No sense in reinstalling the old bits though.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Thanks, but i seem to have a different issue. Raw water inflow is ample; even excessive. Outflow goes a short span to a tank, and was flowing freely until I "fixed" it.

 

[High Wire]

Do you get colored water out of the bowl rim? If yes, 2 things. The outlet to the tank is blocked or partially blocked. This causes the waste side pump pressure to go high. Waste fluid will be forced though the seal separating it from the seawater impeller. Check the entire path back to the waste tank for blockage. Once clear, the waste side pressure drops to almost nothing and everything works normally again UNLESS the seal has been permanently damaged or unseated.

 

[AlaskaProf]

<<...partially blocked...>>

Pretty much as you describe. Suggests that my new joker valve is the problem. Leading to the question: why do I need a joker valve?

 

[dhays]

Just a guess. You could have an obstruction in the outflow path, either in the toilet itself or the plumbing path. Any time I work or, over even near, a system that is functioning well, I find a way to screw it up.

Another question, some heads have a way to adjust the amount of flush water being brought in to the bowl.

You didn’t say exactly what head you replaced yours with. Anyway, I would call the manufacturer or the vendor and see if they have any ideas.

 

[HopCar]

The joker valve does help prevent some back-flow.

Check the joker valve to see if the slits are cut all the way allowing it to open fully. I’ve seen new ones that wouldn’t fully open .

Is it the new tricuspid type valve or the older style with a single slit?

Are you running 1” hose all the way to the tank or did you use the 1-1/2”
adapter?

It’s best not to restrict the intake line. That puts a strain on the impeller.

Remember that the rim of the joker valve acts as a gasket preventing leaks between the toilet base and the discharge tail piece.

You shouldn’t need to re-engineer the toilet by removing parts or restricting the intake.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Anyway, I would call the manufacturer or the vendor and see if they have any ideas.

Now, where's the fun in that? It's OEM, JABSCO. I retained the bowl and replaced all the electro-mechanical stuff. I seem to have fixed it, but questions remain; I may call them Monday.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Is it the new tricuspid type valve or the older style with a single slit?
.

Thanks. I believe you have broken the code.

The valve is the tricuspid; looks just like the one in my old anatomy textbook. I noticed when I installed it that the chamber for it seemed too small. Now that I know there are two valves, the answer becomes clear.

I've removed it and that seems to have restored function. I did recognize the gasket issue and applied some sealant to the faces.

 

[Northern Spy]

Could the new pump be of greater volumetric capacity than the old pump?

Or run for a longer duration?

 

[AlaskaProf]

Could the new pump be of greater volumetric capacity than the old pump?

Maybe, but since the same pump moves water in and waste out, that would seem to balance.

The problem seems to have been the manufacturer's redesign of a little rubber valve rendering it incompatible with the cavity in which it is seated, obstructing the out-flow.

But thanks for your assistance.

 

[Northern Spy]

It seems as if you changed two items. One, the pump. And two, the joker valve. So the problem likely is one of the components affecting a system change.

There are two impellers on one shaft. If one changed relative to the other, say as a model improvement, it may affect your older toilet. Possible, maybe, but not probable.

I agree, if your joker valve was in shreds before, adding a new one certainly increased the net discharge head of the pumping system. So the problem is likely in the discharge piping or valve itself. I have noticed a change in length of the Jabsco joker valves when I worked on another boat years ago. The purchased one was longer than the installed one. So it didn't fit in the old tail fitting properly. If I recall correctly, we just put in a Groco duckbill valve instead, as it was shorter.

 

[Xsbank]

Hee hee hee he said crap!

My Jabsco toilets (I think of them and their greedy, grasping corporate octopus with their crappy quality, every time I employ the throne) work fine with their fresh water source but my inlet flow is too low...sigh. I guess I'll have to replumb with 3/4" Pex...

 

[HeadMistress]

I've never heard of a Jabsco or any other macerating electric toilet recirculating bowl contents back through the flush water inlet to send it into the bowl via the channel in the rim of the bowl. Did you read--and FOLLOW the installation instructions in the owners manual? Jabsco 37010 owners manual 'Cuz if you did, you should have seen the drawing on page 2 showing the vented loop with a solenoid valve in the flush water inlet line...which is absolutely necessary if the toilet or any part of it is below waterline. 'Cuz what's happening is, water outside the boat is seeking its own level INSIDE the boat via the toilet...and continuing to do so once the toilet has primed because there's nothing in the inlet line to create the air gap needed to break the flow. So the joker valve in the toilet discharge has nothing to do with it unless the toilet's motor is so weak it can't push bowl contents out of the toilet.

If the flush water is dirty, that means you may be picking up mud (shallow water) or the toilet may have sucked up some animal or vegetable sea life that's rotting in the intake line.

None of which is to say that you may not have needed a new joker valve...that should be replaced at least every two years--annually if you're a liveaboard--to block, or at least slow down, backflow of waste left in the toilet discharge line if the toilet isn't flushed long enough to move it all the way into the tank. Only that there's no way a new joker valve can solve your problem.

--Peggie

 

[twistedtree]

It's OEM, JABSCO.

There's your problem. Thank you ITT/Xylem for wrecking yet another good company......

 

[Irish Rambler]

Us Irish are so tight you can hear our ass squeaking when we walk so here's a cheap and cheerful way to prevent calcium build up in toilet discharge lines is to buy white vinegar, preferably 12% strength and pour 2 litres into the toilet bowl, operate the toilet so the level just goes to the bottom of the bowl and leave overnight.
Treat each toilet once a month to keep the hoses clean and kill any smells in the hose.

 

[Duetto]

"I've never heard of a Jabsco or any other macerating electric toilet recirculating bowl contents back through the flush water inlet to send it into the bowl via the channel in the rim of the bowl."

actually, if you call jabsco tech support they will tell you that this can be the result of sealing sleeve (item #19) allowing bypass into the inflow chamber. this can happen due to either 1) sleeve failure or 2) bad adjustment of centrifugal impeller (item #16).

john
gem mainship p34

 

[HeadMistress]

I learn something new every day! ''Twould have to be a pretty worn out pump assembly for that happen, though.

a cheap and cheerful way to prevent calcium build up in toilet discharge lines is to buy white vinegar, preferably 12% strength and pour 2 litres into the toilet bowl, operate the toilet so the level just goes to the bottom of the bowl and leave overnight.
You're on the right track, but leaving vinegar in the bowl will destroy the joker valve...'cuz when soft rubber is allowed sit an soak in vinegar, it swells and distorts, and the vinegar in the bowl will seep out. Besides, 95% of 2 litres of anything is just wasted 'cuz it'll just go through the hose and land in the holding tank (or the sea, if your toilet flushes directly overboard). So it should appeal to your frugal Irish nature that just a cupful (100 mil) of distilled white vinegar (5-7% is the typical dilution sold in the US), flushed through the system once a week, then followed with a fresh water rinse after 45-60 minutes will accomplish the same thing without risk to soft rubber parts.

--Peggie

 

[menzies]

Us Irish are so tight you can hear our ass squeaking...

You must be Scots-Irish.

 

[AlaskaProf]

You must be Scots-Irish.

Ooh!! You'd better take another look at that flag.

 

[Al]

Us Irish are so tight you can hear our ass squeaking when we walk so here's a cheap and cheerful way to prevent calcium build up in toilet discharge lines is to buy white vinegar, preferably 12% strength and pour 2 litres into the toilet bowl, operate the toilet so the level just goes to the bottom of the bowl and leave overnight.
Treat each toilet once a month to keep the hoses clean and kill any smells in the hose.

Knew it!! As a kid raised as a Swede,(Adopted) to find late in life that I am 100% of Irish descent, had discovered this white vinegar trick sometime back and employed the product and do now, on occasion. However, in addition, I keep a two gallon plastic bucket in the head, containing sea water. I encourage the head with additional water not because the head is not functioning as designed, rather, to increase the amount of flush and reduce the stress of the masarator having to pick up the prime each time from the bottom of the system.
The white vinegar works well! Irish smarts!

Al-Ketchikan

 

[Irish Rambler]

I always start out looking at simple cost effective ways to tackle problems. I've seen people spend thousands on overcomplicated systems when there's a simple way to do the job.(Just read on TF about fuel polishing and filters systems).
As you American cousins say K.I.S.S, 'Keep It Simple Stupid' is right on the nail.
I spent a part of my working life pioneering bulk liquid transport storage/filtration/systems and we had to design and build equipment to do the job and as a private business you learn to work smarter rather than harder. I built the first road tanker washing system in Ireland and the 'spinners' we used to clean the interior of the road tankers would get clogged with limescale over time, various company reps tried to sell us very expensive muriatic 'wonder' mixes and being tight fisted remembering my school chemistry taught me the vinegar trick and saved us a fortune.

We also used to transport computers from the Dell factory in Ireland to Sweden, a really beautiful part of the world and lovely people to work with, Irish whiskey is very very expensive up there as you know and we would smuggle a 'few' up with us to help the locals keep warm and happy..
Over time three of our drivers met and married Swedish girls and last I heard they were still very happy together, between the Vikings on the one hand and the roaming Paddy's on the other there's bound to good times.