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baoputzi

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Hi out there,

I am new to this forum and have been reading cross your interesting comments regarding best trawlers for liveaboards etc. I am a single teacher and lecturer teaching math, computer sciences and business sciences for engineers.
I do not own a boat yet but retiring soon - my dream always was to solo sail Norway Fjords and then via Faroer, Iceland, Greenland into the St. Lawrence and up to my son in Montreal and on to the loop and …
Buying a seaworthy trawler in Europe is quite a challenge as for insurance purposes vessels need a CEA certification and the trawler marketed here is poor. The only boats I found are the Elling E4 ( rather expensive around 380k€ ), an Ocean Alexander 423 Classico (~200K)from 1995 with twin 3208 cat, and a 2000 Sabreline 47 (~250K)with twin 3126TA/420hp the Sabreline is CEA certified and in a newish condition - but I don’t know the sailing behaviors nor the behavior while anchored nor do I know anything about fuel consumption etc. All navigation equipment and electrical is pretty new and good stuff (Simrad, foreword scanning sonars etc., Mastervolt Mass Ultra series …But via the world wide web There is only sparse information about this type of boats. It would be great if You have some helpful experience and or info to share.
Thank you in advance and kindest regards from Cologne/Germany
peter
 
Welcome aboard, Peter! You have some awesome travel plans!
 
baoputzi said:
Buying a seaworthy trawler in Europe is quite a challenge as for insurance purposes vessels need a CEA certification and the trawler marketed here is poor. The only boats I found are the Elling E4 ( rather expensive around 380k€ ), an Ocean Alexander 423 Classico (~200K)from 1995 with twin 3208 cat, and a 2000 Sabreline 47 (~250K)with twin 3126TA/420hp the Sabreline is CEA certified and in a newish condition - but I don’t know the sailing behaviors nor the behavior while anchored nor do I know anything about fuel consumption etc. All navigation equipment and electrical is pretty new and good stuff (Simrad, foreword scanning sonars etc., Mastervolt Mass Ultra series …But via the world wide web There is only sparse information about this type of boats.
Click to expand...

Guten Tag, Peter!

Seems odd that CE "A" is required? For all boats?

Sabre has a pretty good reputation over here, and I'm pretty sure they were the builders for Sabreline models. They may be happy to answer questions about the Sabreline model you've seen.

I think mostly they don't use the "Sabreline" model name these days -- just Sabre -- but they do both sail and power. Current power models have tended toward pods drives, but the earlier Sabreline trawler-like models were straight drive like the one you're seeing. See sabreyachts.com, and look under Heritage Yachts.

Ocean Alexander also has a decent reputation, and there are several owners here on TF I think.

Elling is less common where we are, but we've see a few here and there.

-Chris
 
thank you all for welcoming and initial comments

the CE-A certification is one of four Classifications for leisure boats in EU and stands for handling 8+ beaufort and 4m+ waves in all seas and weathers. CE B is coastal waters and waves < 4m and winds <8 bf 8 ( Eastbay and Nimbus f.e.)
The Elling ist interesting due to the high quality and the fact that she fits unter most bridges and the Dutch and french canals whereas the Sabre is for most fixed bridges and tunnels too high due to the nice flybridge. Another fact which I do not know is wether the twin cat 3126TA will be happy with hours and days below hull speed - as in many of those canals the speed is limited to around 3 to 6 knots aprox.
But that’s a good advice to just ask the Sabre people… I ate up every information I could get - their heritage site showed the model as Sabre Motor Yacht 47 but with YanMar engines at 440hp each - but technically or „seamanshipply“ the information was not really helpful. Also there was no hull shape available -
the big difference in the two concepts is - Ellings are build like bigger decksalon sailboats and living happens more „downstairs“ with one engine at 435hp and the Sabre is very airy and roomy with a huge salon and galley down …
In Germany and Netherland buying a boat is somehow different - as brokers allow sea trials only if you payed a deposit of 10 to 20% of the asked price and then together with a surveyor - i.e. after you started the buying procedures -very rarely you find private sellers which allow sea trials or hauling out of the vessel if you pay them only for that purpose. Brokers just don’t.

And yes it is a challenging plan but I can turn around at any place as the farest distance is around 500nm and I am not in a hurry and would bitterly regret not having even tried to…
 
Baopuzl, your budget is too low for a proper boat for such areas. Even a 2017, used Artnautica LRC 58, Costs about 750k euros.
 
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baoputzi said:
the CE-A certification is one of four Classifications for leisure boats in EU and stands for handling 8+ beaufort and 4m+ waves in all seas and weathers. CE B is coastal waters and waves < 4m and winds <8 bf 8 ( Eastbay and Nimbus f.e.)
The Elling ist interesting due to the high quality and the fact that she fits unter most bridges and the Dutch and french canals whereas the Sabre is for most fixed bridges and tunnels too high due to the nice flybridge. Another fact which I do not know is wether the twin cat 3126TA will be happy with hours and days below hull speed - as in many of those canals the speed is limited to around 3 to 6 knots aprox.
But that’s a good advice to just ask the Sabre people… I ate up every information I could get - their heritage site showed the model as Sabre Motor Yacht 47 but with YanMar engines at 440hp each - but technically or „seamanshipply“ the information was not really helpful. Also there was no hull shape available -
the big difference in the two concepts is - Ellings are build like bigger decksalon sailboats and living happens more „downstairs“ with one engine at 435hp and the Sabre is very airy and roomy with a huge salon and galley down …
In Germany and Netherland buying a boat is somehow different - as brokers allow sea trials only if you payed a deposit of 10 to 20% of the asked price and then together with a surveyor - i.e. after you started the buying procedures -very rarely you find private sellers which allow sea trials or hauling out of the vessel if you pay them only for that purpose. Brokers just don’t.

And yes it is a challenging plan but I can turn around at any place as the farest distance is around 500nm and I am not in a hurry and would bitterly regret not having even tried to…
Click to expand...


Ah. I think you're saying that CE "A" is specifically required for the ocean voyage you propose. (And that lesser certifications exist, are availabel for many, but wouldn't be appropriate for your purposes.) Yes?

Are the Dutch/French canal bridges you envision mostly fixed? Or do they raise, either on schedule or on demand? I don't remember noticing, when we lived in Germany and briefly visited the Netherlands...

You could research the Cat engine on boatdiesel.com... but in general, most semi-modern diesels are happy enough at low speeds as long as your operating temperatures are kept up to minimum. Some recommend a brief "blow out" period of higher RPM after a long slow run, but that seems to vary from engine to engine (or forum typist to forum typist).

Does that particular Sabre happen to be U.S.-spec electrical systems? Or was it built for the Euro market? Not sure one or the other would be better, in your case, since you're thinking to start there and end up here... but it's maybe useful for you to know the details.

Sea trials and surveys here generally also start with a sales contract and down payment.

-Chris
 
ranger58sb said:
Ah. I think you're saying that CE "A" is specifically required for the ocean voyage you propose.
Click to expand...

The aluminum custom I linked above states it was constructed to BUREAU VERITAS standards. I don't know what exactly that means. But does beg the question - what do boats that pre-date 1998 CE ratings do?

Peter
 
Mambo42 said:
So basically you are looking for a boat with 1000 nm range and it needs to be a trawler type, for a reasonable price.

Take a look here: https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/204065/DUTCH-PILOTHOUSE-TRAWLER.html

This boat is in a very good condition and was specifically built for operations at sea.
Click to expand...

Really cute boat with lots of character. Do you think if I make him a low-enough offer that he will remove the ugly swim platform and convert it to a single? :)

BTW, love those helm chairs. Reminds me of Recaro racing seats.
 

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Mambo42 said:
So basically you are looking for a boat with 1000 nm range and it needs to be a trawler type, for a reasonable price.

Take a look here: https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/204065/DUTCH-PILOTHOUSE-TRAWLER.html

or, perhaps even better:
https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/802951/SYMBOL-45-PILOTHOUSE-TRAWLER.html

This boat is in a very good condition and was specifically built for operations at sea.
Click to expand...


Wow! You can't even look at more than a few pics on the brokerage site without signing up for an account! Looks nice from the first 5 pics. No, I am NOT signing up for an account just to look at the last 75 pics!:facepalm:
 
slowgoesit said:
Wow! You can't even look at more than a few pics on the brokerage site without signing up for an account! Looks nice from the first 5 pics. No, I am NOT signing up for an account just to look at the last 75 pics!:facepalm:
Click to expand...

I can highly recommend signing up if you are looking for a boat. De Valk is one of the largest brokers in Europe, have offices all over the place. In fact I bought my boat through them and the service was / is impeccable.

If you don't want to get the newsletter you simply sign out of it and then you can still visit the site, but no more newsletters (which is basically informing you which new boats they have on offer).

The links of the 2 boats I posted are really interesting yachts. One even has stabilizers and is in a great condition. If I would be looking for a boat this would be an absolute contender for me.
 
Mako said:
Really cute boat with lots of character. Do you think if I make him a low-enough offer that he will remove the ugly swim platform and convert it to a single? :)

BTW, love those helm chairs. Reminds me of Recaro racing seats.
Click to expand...

I agree, the swim platform is ugly, can even call it hideous, but my guess is that it actually does help stabilize the boat. And if you would ever bring the boat to the Med a large swim platform is a must, you can't do without it. :)
 
I am currently just down the road in Boppard. The OA 42 with twin Cat 3208’s is an interesting boat but does it meet CE-A regulations? I do not know. I can tell you that the boat will travel at 6-7 knots wile burning 4.5 to 5 gallons per hour. The Boat is capable of 20 knots but then you are burning 38-42 gallons per hour. The saber will have similar fuel consumption numbers only it can go faster but that will increase the rate of consumption. I am not familiar with the Ellington E4 but I would suspect it has better consumption numbers.
 
hello with Parick from Belgium, i have a frend who hase a eling, they are great boats, if you need a class A boat, then you have limited choice, they are sea boats you con not always go inland with them. ours have to be cut down, we had a head clearence of 6m an the max inland is 4m80 some chanels have 7m clearence but not all. we have 2x 3208ta from 435hp with are greate on sea, but to heavy for the chanels you need to travel a lot on one engine like a crab on the chanels i leve the 2 engines running en switch contineusly from onre to the other engene to go strait :)
 
Guten Morgen Peter,
greetings from Colognes neighborhood Langenfeld. We are preparing our dream of being a liveaboard couple right now. But we will keep it way smaller by staying in the Med. We will sell the house in the next month and move permanently onto our Trawler in spring next year. We have been on board this year for more than six month already. We can understand your plans fully. We started a blog and if you like to can read about our experiences here --> bootsleben.com Unfortunately for you others it is on German.
Peter, if you like we can exchange more information on that topic. Just send a PM.
Kind regards
Thorsten
 
Hi, welcome TF!

Yes, there are several "trawler" type CE-A boats on the EU market that have the capacity and stability to cross oceans and other large open seas.

often these boats are not cheap, often the prices start around €300,000, but sometimes they are more affordable.

Look at the market. With a smaller budget, you could find sailboats with the opportunity to make your plan come true.

Samples
https://www.botentekoop.com/boat/2003-one-offf-trawler-8260585/

https://www.botentekoop.com/boat/2003-stentor-18-explorer----stabilizers-8127012/


https://dailyboats.com/boat/81946-buy-altena-blue-water-trawler-48-for-sale


https://www.boat24.com/en/powerboats/warren-mews-trawler-1650/detail/487701/

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/1977-fisher-37-8044058/

I also want to share my thoughts, CE-A does not guarantee that the ship will survive the ocean crossing, because seamanship, the condition of the boat and many other things affect the whole. The CE system in boats is calculated and when you bring your own goods etc. to the boat, it affects the stability, so a long trip requires a lot of thought, boat loading, maintenance and the crew's experience at sea.

NBs
 
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