Helmsman Value

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N4061

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Feb 7, 2010
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I thought I would start a new post under Helmsman to address a topic I have mentioned many times and has allowed me to enjoy many boats over the past 30 years (getting older) ? “value”.

Let’s face it building and owning a trawler of any size is not inexpensive and owning four different trawlers in 15 years takes its toll on the budget. We are not wealthy and at times it appears I work to afford boating. We have been fortunate to have found ourselves requiring a second home in San Diego for work thus able to justify (to ourselves) the need for a trawler to live a board part time. Yes, life’s curves and been both rough and good to us.

So what does this have to do with affording three new builds and one used trawler, it sets the foundation. One thing about boats in general is that after a certain period of time (years old) many boats (in great condition) actually sell for their original purchase price. The basic reasons are materials and labor costs annual escalation being higher than the national average. In other words, the cost of building boats increases faster than many other products we purchase. A simple example may be the price of a new car versus a new boat. Apples to Apples we can still buy a new car for 25% to what we paid ten years ago due in part to mass production which helps keep costs lower than hand built, small quantities of boats. While any one can shoot holes into this over simplified analogy just hang in there awhile longer.

My first example starts years before our first trawler but starts the discussion. Around 1993 I decided to buy my dream boat when I was a kid growing up on Long Island, NY. The boat was a 21’ Mako center console with its nice bow rise and teak wood trim. Finding a Mako in California was not a simple task since they were east coast boats but I did find a dealer in Southern California which I visited at least half a dozen times (drove Mary crazy) as I dreamed about the boat I couldn’t afford. While my budget was more in line with the 19’ my passion was with the 21’. This was before the internet and finding dealers was through magazines and phone calls so I called the factory in Florida and ask for a list of all dealers west of the Mississippi River. When the least arrived I found a “former” dealer in Northern California and thought I would give him a call. As luck would have it he had an inventory of five different models he couldn’t sell. Turns out Mako was not a well known brand up north and center consoles were least desired. Besides two cabin models he had a 19’, 21’ and 24’ center console all stored inside a warehouse. While the boats were 2-3 years old they were new and came with a new model year OB engine. The dealer sent me a copy of his invoice from the factory and offered to sell me the boat below his cost. Needless to say I jumped at the opportunity and drove 8 hours north to pick up the boat and trailer it home.

We enjoyed that boat for over six years before Mary said she would need a boat with more protection from the weather if I wanted her to keep spending time on the water. When the time came to sell the boat I had no problem selling it for what I paid. This confirmed what I already knew about buying and selling boats at the right time, price and make / model. The biggest risk I knew I took was a boat that was not well known on west coast and the resale buyer would need to be fishing enthusiast who knows about center console boats. The person who purchased our boat had a friend who owned Mako 21 cuddy cabin and knew the boats reputation as a well built boat.

So when I think about “value” and our Mako it hit all the marks including: quality, functionality, enjoyment, purchase price, cost of ownership and resale.

Next post will carry this discussion to trawlers but for now it’s time for dinner ?.

John
 
Love the Helmsman trawlers! Wish we could afford one. We bought a Mainship Expedition last year and live aboard in San Diego in the winter. So far, it's been a great decision. After owning several boats over the last 30 years, I am hoping this one will hold it's value.
 
Trawler Value

In this second post we will focus on our experience with building and owning a few different trawlers and how timing and the boats value allowed us to minimize our investments.

When we first learned about trawlers we quickly leaned towards full displacement (FD) hull designs for their range and ability to handle open ocean cruising with safety. Our research focused on the following three builders; Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen and Selene before selecting the Nordhavn 40 as our first new build. While the N40 was more expensive than comparable models we felt it offered the best value and didn’t look back. Timing was perfect for us in that PAE had recently moved the tooling from a Southern California builder to its new facility in China and offered a $100K discount for the first ten hulls built. In addition to the price discount the China built boats received a number of enhancements including improved fit and finish.
When Mary decided 6 Knots was not for her we found ourselves listing the boat for sale 18 months later while we started a new search for our next boat. The boat sold within weeks of our listing for what we paid. Our only loss was the 10% sales commission which isn’t insignificant but is the market average. A few factors that allowed us to do well with the resale included the base boat price increased about $50K by the builder since we ordered our boat, brand popularity, high demand and low inventory. Add in overall high quality and the fact we kept our boat in “new” condition allowed us to realize a great “value” in our investment. Just for fun when we sold our boat l looked at other builders similar boats that we had considered and concluded we did very well.

Fast forward about one year and we took delivery of second N40 with the only difference being this boat had every available option offered and was built by the builder for future sale. When the time came to sell this boat (3 years) we were in the beginning of the housing market crash and the boating market was feeling the pain. Thankfully we had an asset that carried a great reputation and held its value well. While it took about nine months to sell the boat we did find a great couple from Florida who purchased the boat in San Diego and let us watch over it for a year. If memory serves me correctly we sold that boat for 12% less than our purchase price plus 10% commission (ouch). Not great but considering the poor economic times and some boats being foreclosed on and new boat orders being canceled we cannot complain. Some will argue that 12% loss over three years is actually good even in the best times but we were spoiled. So how did we do this well in the bad times? It goes back to the same reasons we incurred with the first N40 less good economy and low inventory but when you own a high quality, proven boat there will always be buyer.
Next we will explore our first “used” trawler then the Helmsman.
Remember the intent of this post is not to promote any single boat or builders but to provide some true facts we experienced to help others with their search for the right boat.
 
Just curious but why purchase another Nordhavn after the first?
Assuming the second was a slow as the first?
 
Speed

Just curious but why purchase another Nordhavn after the first?
Assuming the second was a slow as the first?

Great question and answered in our original post but her you go, after Mary decided she didn’t like 6 knots and we sold the boat we tested a few “go fast” boats like Grand Banks where she quickly realized that when traveling around 15 knots you are stuck sitting until you reach your destination. She “got it” and understood that you can cook, walk around and just live life at 6 knots. Thus the second N40.
 
Great question and answered in our original post but her you go, after Mary decided she didn’t like 6 knots and we sold the boat we tested a few “go fast” boats like Grand Banks where she quickly realized that when traveling around 15 knots you are stuck sitting until you reach your destination. She “got it” and understood that you can cook, walk around and just live life at 6 knots. Thus the second N40.

Wifey B: Please translate the "stuck sitting" part as I don't understand that? Why are you stuck or sitting? :eek:
 
Sitting

Wifey B: Please translate the "stuck sitting" part as I don't understand that? Why are you stuck or sitting? :eek:

We concluded that while traveling at speeds 15 knots and above it was not very safe to be walking around or attempting to cook dinner unless the seas were very calm which for us is not the norm. Slowing down to 6 knots makes a big difference.

John
 
A recreational boat will rarely, if ever, be a good investment. Even eventually selling for what one paid doesn't change that since it ignores the opportunity cost of the purchase, not to mention the other costs of ownership. Since owning a boat is going to cost something, the only appropriate way to assess "value" is to compare the utility (for lack of a better word) with the total cost. I spent quite a bit on electronics for my boat, knowing that I would never get any of that money back (the complexity of my helm would turn off most buyers). But, because of the utility I get from those systems, I believe it provided very good value.
 
We concluded that while traveling at speeds 15 knots and above it was not very safe to be walking around or attempting to cook dinner unless the seas were very calm which for us is not the norm. Slowing down to 6 knots makes a big difference.

John

Wifey B: I would say that's more a function of the boat than the speed. I'm not sure a given boat will be a lot different between the two speeds but you were comparing a Nordhavn at 6 knots to likely non stabilized semi displacement boats at 15 knots and perhaps not to the best riding at 15 knots. Still relevant as those were choices you were considering. Thanks for explaining as I've not felt stuck sitting. :)
 
Investment

A recreational boat will rarely, if ever, be a good investment. Even eventually selling for what one paid doesn't change that since it ignores the opportunity cost of the purchase, not to mention the other costs of ownership. Since owning a boat is going to cost something, the only appropriate way to assess "value" is to compare the utility (for lack of a better word) with the total cost. I spent quite a bit on electronics for my boat, knowing that I would never get any of that money back (the complexity of my helm would turn off most buyers). But, because of the utility I get from those systems, I believe it provided very good value.[/QUOTE

Great point! There are so many factors that go into the “true cost of ownership” that you can not just look at anyone. My post was focused on “resale” since I have been asked many times how a working guy like myself could afford to change boats so many times. What I hope readers walk away with is the importance of purchasing a well built boat with a good reputation. If you get lucky and find your timing right (like we have) it’s icing on the cake.

I see buyers of Helmsman trawlers today getting in at the beginning of the companies rise to popularity and getting a good deal when the time comes to resale.
 
A recreational boat will rarely, if ever, be a good investment. Even eventually selling for what one paid doesn't change that since it ignores the opportunity cost of the purchase, not to mention the other costs of ownership. Since owning a boat is going to cost something, the only appropriate way to assess "value" is to compare the utility (for lack of a better word) with the total cost. I spent quite a bit on electronics for my boat, knowing that I would never get any of that money back (the complexity of my helm would turn off most buyers). But, because of the utility I get from those systems, I believe it provided very good value.[/QUOTE

Great point! There are so many factors that go into the “true cost of ownership” that you can not just look at anyone. My post was focused on “resale” since I have been asked many times how a working guy like myself could afford to change boats so many times. What I hope readers walk away with is the importance of purchasing a well built boat with a good reputation. If you get lucky and find your timing right (like we have) it’s icing on the cake.

I see buyers of Helmsman trawlers today getting in at the beginning of the companies rise to popularity and getting a good deal when the time comes to resale.

We came out very well on our Sunseeker which we bought new and sold about 2 years later. Why so good? Exchange rate. We bought in GBP and by the time we took delivery it's price in USD had greatly increased. As the pound fell further the next two years, the cost of new rose more. So, that pulled the value of used up. Plus the condition of our boat meant a lot. Ultimately, it's a lot about timing. Timing in the builder's cycle, timing in the economy, timing on exchange rates.
 
John, quoting a sentence from your original post: One thing about boats in general is that after a certain period of time (years old) many boats (in great condition) actually sell for their original purchase price. The basic reasons are materials and labor costs annual escalation being higher than the national average.

Not poking holes here, because I think you may be correct in the first quoted sentence above but for the wrong reason stated in the second sentence. Your post brought back memories of my undergraduate marketing class in college from Professor Thomas Stanley. If the name sounds familiar, it may be because you may recognize it from his New York Times best seller "The Millionaire Next Door." In his capstone marketing class some 35 years ago, he continually pounded us "students" to be very watchful for "attribution error" in marketing campaigns.

He taught us that baby boomer purchasing decisions would skew nearly all marketing approaches. To apply this to used boats, baby boomers love trawlers - Gens X-Y & Z, not so much - they are the center console twin outboard gang. I am smack dab in the middle of the boomer cycle (1956), and love trawlers. The youngest boomer born in 1966 is just shy of 55 - prime trawler buying age - the market may start to get thin soon. Boomers have, in my opinion, skewed trawler pricing to your benefit, because the demand is so great for these boats. Agree with you that better boats in better condition get better money, but even average condition and quality get more money than such a trawler may otherwise in a more traditional market. Over the next few years though, my guess is that pricing will return to a more traditional buying/selling - With my luck, I will need to be 90 years old before I can afford one. :) Thanks for your informative posts.
 
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