Help ID this Perkins

[Wheeler]

I’m looking at buying a paddlewheeler, with this engine fitted. Couldn’t find a data plate. All I know is that it’s 220hp and runs, but needs work. I’m looking for rebuild / replacement costs so I can come up with a reasonable offer. Also the model so I can do a little more research.

Has some cooling issues obviously!

Keel cooler fitted. Any help appreciated.

 

[High Wire]

It’s a turbo charged 6.354 mid 1980’s vintage. The serial number is stamped on the flat base of the injection pump. Post that number and we can get more specific.
There is no data plate on those Perkins.

 

[Lepke]

What I have on Perkins engine id:

 

[Wheeler]

Fantastic guys, thanks. I’ll get the ID if I get a chance.

I’m gonna call around for some rebuild quotes

 

[PM]

Total rebuild, excluding the crank and reusing a few pistons, including the in and out =$20,000.

Thats a quality, professional job.it will likely include starter, rebuild on injectors and pump, new water pumps, cam, rocker shafts,rockers, adjusting screws, rings, gaskets, valve and head job, block inspection,new hoses and belts, freeze plugs/anodes, a test run,even new paint. Although I can't see it there is probably a turbo given it is 220 hp, that will be extra

It's a lot.

pete

 

[High Wire]

Fantastic guys, thanks. I’ll get the ID if I get a chance.

I’m gonna call around for some rebuild quotes

Usually the surveyor will include the s/n on the report.

 

[Wheeler]

Total rebuild, excluding the crank and reusing a few pistons, including the in and out =$20,000.

Thats a quality, professional job.it will likely include starter, rebuild on injectors and pump, new water pumps, cam, rocker shafts,rockers, adjusting screws, rings, gaskets, valve and head job, block inspection,new hoses and belts, freeze plugs/anodes, a test run,even new paint. Although I can't see it there is probably a turbo given it is 220 hp, that will be extra

It's a lot.

pete

That’s great info Pete, thanks.

Provided I get it scoped, the bores are good, and it’s more of a top end + accessories, what do you think it would cost?

I’m not adverse to doing it right; just want to go in with the worst case in mind

 

[jleonard]

T6.3544. This is a "range 4 series" Perkins circa 1980s.

Trans Atlantic Diesel (aka TAD) located in Virginia, are considered to be the "experts" in these engines. I'd reach out to them for information, parts availability, rebuild costs, etc.

 

[Ski in NC]

Hard to tell from pics, but looks like it is rather crudely adapted to keel cooling. Looks like no sea water supply to oil cooler and aftercooler (???) so is there any sea water loop left intact?? If not, engine is substantially derated.

Also the rust/corrosion at the thermostat outlet indicates salt water has corrupted the keel cooler circuit.

Looks like a mess. Lots of work. Base engine may be ok if it runs (those are tough engines) but the bolt-on stuff can be quite the hassle. Especially here.

 

[Wheeler]

I suppose the real question here is if I’m going to be spending $20k would I be better off swapping this for a 6bt? Or even a 4bt.

The guys I’ve spoke to with similar sized boats say 150hp is all I’d need and that this is overpowered at 220hp

 

[DavidM]

The Cummins 6BT would be a sweet engine to repower with. No problem running at much lower power. The 6BT has no aftercooler so it is simple and easy to maintain.

A factory reman would run in the lower 20s. You should be able to adapt to the existing transmission and all running gear. Should be fairly easy to set up for keel cooling if that is what you want.

The 4BT would also work, but is a little rougher running at low speed due to being a 4 cylinder with no balance shaft and the 6BT shouldn't cost that much more.

David

 

[PM]

I can't find my engine rebuild receipt this morning, must be on the boat but a complete top end rebuild, of course, would be substantially less than $20,000.

First you save $3,000 on the in and out. You should be able to pull the head yourself and deliver it to a good machine shop.

Valves, gaskets, springs, rockers, shafts and labor shouldn't go over $1,000. Most parts can probably be re used. Even if I am off by half it is still reasonable if it is only the top half that needs attention.

How many hours on the engine?

pete

 

[CaptTom]

I'd question that 220HP rating, too. My T6.354's are allegedly rated at 200HP, but I've seen others which are only reported to be 185. Maybe there are different ratings for the same base engine though. I'm no expert.

 

[Ski in NC]

And you don't need a marine 6BT for this. Dry exhaust, keel cooled- can be an engine from any app.

Same goes with Perkins. Scrap all that marine manifold stuff and fit on dry manifold and turbo from a tractor. Not sure how to handle oil cooler, but if light load it may not even need such. Can be tied to keel cooler circuit with a little creative plumbing.

If you are going to run under about 100hp, can ditch the turbo too.

 

[jleonard]

I'd question that 220HP rating, too. My T6.354's are allegedly rated at 200HP, but I've seen others which are only reported to be 185. Maybe there are different ratings for the same base engine though. I'm no expert.

The 200 hp is brake horsepower and the 185 is shaft horsepower. So for propping you would use the shaft HP number.
The non intercooled version of that series is 165 BHP.
They also made a 240 BHP and a 275 BHP version.

Cummins 6BT engine out of Dodge pickups are easy to find cheap. There are also many older Bluebird school busses and smaller Freightliner trucks that used the Cummins 6B series.

4BTs are common in the old Frito Lay "bread truck" style van and UPS trucks. Plenty of those around also.

 

[Mrwesson]

I'd question that 220HP rating, too. My T6.354's are allegedly rated at 200HP, but I've seen others which are only reported to be 185. Maybe there are different ratings for the same base engine though. I'm no expert.

160hp, 185hp, 200hp, 220hp and I think there's a 240hp version from the factory. Intercooler is the main differences but if you have a 200hp and there's no difference between your engine and the 220hp it's a matter of turning up the fuel on the rotary pump to match the HP. This wouldn't be worth the risk but it's possible.

As a matter of fact the only way to make more HP with these diesels is to add fuel and it's the only thing that makes them produce more power.

Here's proof they made a perkins 185hp.

 

[Wheeler]

Great info guys, thanks.

Got an email from TAD. A reman 6.354 with full marine cooling components is ~$13k, including $2k core charge. So it seems like I could knock the price down by not using any marine stuff.

Not sure how many hours on the engine. I'd probably start with full lube oil testing of all components and then decide from there.