Lithium batteries

[bshanafelt]

Just read this in Pro Boatbuilder:

https://www.jklopman.com/articles

look at lithium liabilities

 

[markpj23]

I get no sense that the author knows the difference between LiOn and LiFePO4 batteries. While the fire claims for LiOn may be true, the same cannot be said for the others.

 

[psneeld]

See here for similar discussion.....

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/you-not-qualified-have-li-batteries-63116.html

 

[BruceK]

Seen in a financial newsfeed regarding lithium pricing:

"Lithium today is starting to look a lot like iron ore of 20 years ago, a comparison which includes the potential for miners of the battery metal to become tomorrow’s yield stars.
While it has never been wise to treat any natural resource company as a reliable dividend generator because of the potential for extreme moves in commodity prices, there can be exceptions at times when prices stay higher for longer.
In the case of iron ore, which has enjoyed long-lasting record prices thanks to China’s industrial revolution, Australian miners such as Fortescue Metals Group and BHP have become important sources of dividends for many investors.
Lithium is riding the equivalent of the China boom, only bigger, in the form of the global energy transition which has sparked a rapid increase in demand, especially from electric vehicle (EV) makers at a time of a significant shortfall in supply.
The result is a lithium price which has punched through the ceiling. While there are multiple ways of trading the metal it is in its form as a concentrated ore (spodumene) that the spectacular price rise can be best measured – and in which also lies a warning about commodity risk.
Over past two years the price of spodumene, which generally contains 6 per cent lithium, has rocketed up by 900 per cent from around $US400 a tonne in 2020 to recent trades booked at $US4000/t with the potential to keep rising. Credit Suisse, an investment bank, sees a future possible price of $US7000/t.
Given that most Australian producers of spodumene concentrate operate on a cost base of less than $US500/t it’s obvious that profit margins are spectacular.
In its processed form as lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide, the numbers are even more impressive with a tonne of carbonate selling in China for up to $78,000, a remarkable 1047 per cent higher than the $6800/t of 18 months ago."

 

[C lectric]

I agree there is a difference between Li-ion batteries and LiFePO4 batteries.

Not only is the LiFePO4 not prone to bursting into flames from improper charging but it also does not have the energy density of Li-ion.

It's to bad the article did not differentiate between the two but maybe as a surveyor he has seen the results too many times of poor implementation or lack of a real SYSTEM and the results.


However, I have seen the same attitude progressing that I saw with Gel cell batteries of about ~25 years ago. THe Gel batteries were promoted as a drop in replacement for other battery types. They were not drop ins and the Gel reputation suffered due to ignorance, misuse and HYPE.

THe idea that they , Li batts., are a drop in is not only wrong but an expensive and MAYBE a dangerous error. This, from what I am seeing, is being believed by uneducated boat owners but worse, promoted by unscrupulous and uneducated sales people.

On several occasions I have tried to correct them, the owners, as even if the LiFePo4 won't burst into flame there ae still consequences. Without the other charging system changes such as a compatible 120VAC charger and a properly regulated alternator with its own protections the system will fail to deliver the thought of savings, ruin the alternators and shorten the life of the LiFe batteries.

Which means an expensive failure of the system which is the fault of HYPE. Not the batteries, not the inadequate charging SYSTEM, but the HYPE.

If you really do your research you will realize the systems can work but not if ignorance and shortcuts prevail.


I don't know if CMS is still refusing to act as a consultant to DIY ers but several years ago, on his site, he stopped helping the DIYer as he found even after designing a system for owners they took shortcuts with a resulting failure of the batteries/system.
He would still design and install the system for them but was refusing to act as a consultant for them as he got the blame when the modified/monkeyfied system failed.


So those that read the article simply be aware the whole installation MUST be a system to get the benefit or it can be an expensive failure instead of a resounding success. Of course be aware that although similar Li-ion and
LiFePo4 are in the same family but are not the same.

DO YOUR RESEARCH.

 

[Simi 60]

.

On several occasions I have tried to correct them, the owners, as even if the LiFePo4 won't burst into flame there ae still consequences. Without the other charging system changes such as a compatible 120VAC charger and a properly regulated alternator with its own protections the system will fail to deliver the thought of savings, ruin the alternators and shorten the life of the LiFe batteries.

Which means an expensive failure of the system which is the fault of HYPE. Not the batteries, not the inadequate charging SYSTEM, but the HYPE.

If you really do your research you will realize the systems can work but not if ignorance and shortcuts prevail.




DO YOUR RESEARCH.

In all fairness a decent sized AGM or lead acid bank will kill of alts, even large frame continuously rated ones.

Ask me how I know