Magnum inverter - brief drop-out

[mvweebles]

UPDATE - I did a hard reset (depress and hold tiny switch on bottom of inverter) and that seems to have cured the problem, at least for now. I was expecting the custom settings I input on the remote panel for LFP to reset but they did not, which is odd. I'll leave the boat on INVERTER for a few hours and monitor. Plan is to leave Weebles in Costa Rica in April for the summer so I can bring back a new inverter if needed/desired.

I disable the search setting on my inverter, just leave it on 24/7. If I want to disable it overnight for some reason, it’s just one button to push.

Initially, I had this OFF. Manual said Factory was 5-watts so I went to that though it made no difference. I reset it back to OFF for the same reasons you do - it's easy to turn-off at night.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

Let us know if it comes back.

 

[luna]

Glad to see that it appears you have this sorted.

Was there any indication in the manual as to what causes this switching condition?

Bravo! Good on you!

 

[mvweebles]

Glad to see that it appears you have this sorted.

Was there any indication in the manual as to what causes this switching condition?

Bravo! Good on you!

Nothing in manual. There is a standard troubleshoot table but there wasn't anything there. I just happened to see the reset button and know that resets seem to cure a lot of issues. Frankly, I didn't even know there was a switch with indicator light until I was down in the dark and saw the glow. It's well hidden - I needed my phone on selfie mode to guide my finger for the reset. Hope it lasts for a while.

Thanks everyone. Embarrassing to have to ask for help from y'all but gives a state of the tech support world I suppose.

Peter

 

[sunchaser]

Peter
Just a thought, likely unrelated ;

Two years ago my Magnum 2812 was clicking at times. I ignored it. Then I had a great marine tech go through and cleanup the 12 and 24 volt systems. At the same time a Blue Seas combiner and new fusing was installed. The clicking, not the reason for the DC cleanup and changes, stopped. The cessation of clicking took awhile to notice as it’s hard to hear something that isn’t there!

 

[SteveK]

What is plugged into the network socket?

 

[mvweebles]

Quick update. After being on shore power overnight, then going back to battery/inverter this morning, the clicking started again. So i did a hard reset again (NOTE for future - all AC loads must be shut off or the reset will not work). I'm underway and have been running the watermaker for a couple hours without a hitch.

Clearly, something doesn't reset properly on its own so requires adult supervision. All good for a while, but I'll plan to replace with Victron at earliest convenience.

BTW - still no word from Magnum on my open trouble ticket from 5 days ago. I'm not holding my breath obviously. Magnum has a solid place on my vendor wall of shame.

Thanks again

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

Quick update. After being on shore power overnight, then going back to battery/inverter this morning, the clicking started again. So i did a hard reset again (NOTE for future - all AC loads must be shut off or the reset will not work). I'm underway and have been running the watermaker for a couple hours without a hitch.

Clearly, something doesn't reset properly on its own so requires adult supervision. All good for a while, but I'll plan to replace with Victron at earliest convenience.

BTW - still no word from Magnum on my open trouble ticket from 5 days ago. I'm not holding my breath obviously. Magnum has a solid place on my vendor wall of shame.

Thanks again

Peter

This has all the signs of a software bug in the behavior of the inverter. And one that Magnum knows about and can’t/doesn’t want to fix based on their behavior. Unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time when tech products get bought by some company. The people who built the product and know the details of how it works check out, and the people who take over can’t fix problems because they don’t fully understand the design.

 

[tpbrady]

Peter,

As with any computer, I always start my troubleshooting with the 3 fingered salute, just sometimes it only takes one finger. Phone, tablet, washing machine, TV, whatever and now my truck.

Tom

 

[av8r]

I may have missed it, but have you tried disconnecting the AC in and letting it run in just the inverter mode? Like Steve suggested early on, this will take the transfer relay out of the operation.
I have a 1212 that is set up with the AC output connected with a rotary switch to the main so that only shore, generator, or inverter can be selected.
I have the AC input to the inverter switched from the main with a circuit breaker. This way I can put AC to the unit for charging when I have shore or generator power and I can disconnect the AC when I want to use the inverter function.
If I were to connect the unit to AC while it is supplying inverter power to the main I would expect to see something very similar to what you describe —there would be a pause while it “qualifies” the AC input, then it would switch to charging mode which would stop the inverting function. As soon as the inverting stops the AC drops out so it switches from charging back to inverter mode after a brief self-test.
If there is some sort of feedback loop the easiest way to isolate it would be to disconnect AC in.

 

[mvweebles]

I may have missed it, but have you tried disconnecting the AC in and letting it run in just the inverter mode? Like Steve suggested early on, this will take the transfer relay out of the operation.
I have a 1212 that is set up with the AC output connected with a rotary switch to the main so that only shore, generator, or inverter can be selected.
I have the AC input to the inverter switched from the main with a circuit breaker. This way I can put AC to the unit for charging when I have shore or generator power and I can disconnect the AC when I want to use the inverter function.
If I were to connect the unit to AC while it is supplying inverter power to the main I would expect to see something very similar to what you describe —there would be a pause while it “qualifies” the AC input, then it would switch to charging mode which would stop the inverting function. As soon as the inverting stops the AC drops out so it switches from charging back to inverter mode after a brief self-test.
If there is some sort of feedback loop the easiest way to isolate it would be to disconnect AC in.

Thanks Av8r. Not sure I understand - for my setup, I only use the inverter when no 120VAC is available. Xonnecting to 120VAC seems to triggering whatever is causing the momentary drop-out that occurs only in inverter mode. So a hard reset is needed when inverter is 100% disconnected from 120VAC (easy for me because of how my breaker panel is configured).

TwistedTree suggested it's a big in the firmware. Makes sense to me. Using the hard reset is annoying but an acceptable workaround for me at this point.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

Is there an input breaker in the AC feeding the inverter? If so, try turning that off.

 

[av8r]

AC connections for this unit are Black and White for AC input, and Red and White with stripes for AC output, and Green for common ground. If you disconnect the input, Black and White, by actually disconnecting the wires or turning off the input breaker, you isolate the input side so the inverter can only function in the inverter mode. This will take the charging and the transfer functions out of the picture.

 

[SteveK]

I must repeat does the neutral switch on/off with the hot, as in dual breaker. If not there could be a bleed when hot switched off causing the inverter confusion in search of usable AC.
Neutral input and output must not be on the same buss bar. when inverting the inverter can be feeding itself via the neutral.

@av8r not all input/output wire colors are necessarily the same as you describe.

 

[av8r]

That color coding is from the Magnum MM1212 manual.
Completely agree about isolating input AC, both hot and neutral, whatever colors they may be.

 

[Capn Bob]

I also have a Magnum charger/inverter on my trawler, replacing an ancient Heart Interface model. Occasionally when I am on shore power, the Magnum disconnects the shorepower but does not then invert DC into AC. It does nothing at all. Usually if I disconnect the shore power and the DC it will release its stranglehold on the shore power. It’s definitely a bug within the inverter in my case

 

[mvweebles]

I think Twisted Tree nailed it - firmware issue.

For me, after being on shore power, I will do a hard reset using the small button near the RJ45 sockets. That seems to be a decent workaround. When I get to Florida, I'll replace it.

In the meantime, I cannot recommend Magnum inverters. BTW - I never received a response to my trouble ticket with them. I didn't follow up either. But still.....

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

I think Twisted Tree nailed it - firmware issue.

For me, after being on shore power, I will do a hard reset using the small button near the RJ45 sockets. That seems to be a decent workaround. When I get to Florida, I'll replace it.

In the meantime, I cannot recommend Magnum inverters. BTW - I never received a response to my trouble ticket with them. I didn't follow up either. But still.....

Peter

The deeper concern is whether Magnum, now Sensata, have retained enough engineering staff who understand the product's internal workings, and can debug and fix the problem. One check would be to see what new or updated products have been released since the acquisition by Sensata in 2014.

 

[SteveK]

The deeper concern is whether Magnum, now Sensata, have retained enough engineering staff who understand the product's internal workings, and can debug and fix the problem. One check would be to see what new or updated products have been released since the acquisition by Sensata in 2014.

My newly 2023 purchased Magnasine is stamped 2018. It has the latest firmware for LFP charging.
I suspect Sensata is selling off old stock since then and there is no support for it. The new and older (I have two) work well for my needs. BUT

Note to self, research before buying, buyer beware.

 

[tiltrider1]

Back in 1996 I installed a Trace Inverter/charger that still performs perfectly to this day. It had every feature that you currently find on top line Inverter/chargers including automatic switching between shore and generator. What happened to trace? They were bought by Xantrex who’s top of the line Inverter/charger has fewer features.

Ten years ago I installed a Magnum Hybrid Inverter/charger. Not as nice as my Trace but very close. It has run flawlessly for 10 years. Now that Magnum has been bought I fear they will go the way of Trace.

My point is that take overs have not improved this market place.

Currently I only see Victron coming out with new inventive products. It’s been 25 years but I think Victron has finally introduced an Inverter/charger with more features than the Trace Sw2512. Unfortunately, I don’t hear the best of news in regards to customer support.

 

[rslifkin]

Currently I only see Victron coming out with new inventive products. It’s been 25 years but I think Victron has finally introduced an Inverter/charger with more features than the Trace Sw2512. Unfortunately, I don’t hear the best of news in regards to customer support.

Victron's support model is based on many of their products being professionally installed. So the dealer you buy from is the first line of support (rather than every end user going directly to Victron). That's definitely something to be aware of when deciding where to buy the equipment. I've found the documentation, availability of info, etc. to be adequate that I haven't needed any kind of support to get things working as desired though.